What did you do to your Ranger today? (Part Deux!)

[ben_2_go]

just cut the tube with a whizzer wheel or tubing cutter....and patch it back together.


cut it high as possible and use high temp hose or copper.

I've bought a new one. I'm replacing it completely.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Soo… Uhh… there seems to be a serious problem…

Nothing, and I mean nothing appears to at all be bent or broke enough to account for this major of a discrepancy in length. I questioned why it didn’t want to go together and then I discovered the problem. Don’t mind the vertical misalignment, that’s fine. Drivers beam is tire on the ground and the passenger side beam is on a jack and jackstand, so the suspension isn’t even drooped out, so it will just get worse from here…

 

[Rick W]

Rick, don't award me just yet!

The hose that I coupled with the copper pipe and hose clamps slipped right off this afternoon, resulting in some loss of coolant but no overheating. When the engine cooled a bit, I threaded some stiff wire through both hose clamps and twisted the ends as tightly as I could with my fingers.

I really wanted a threaded pipe coupling that the rubber hose could grip better, but couldn't find any at that particular store with a big enough diameter.

I haven't given up yet. Thought it was a clever idea, but the execution was lacking a bit.

As Thomas Edison said...

Do you have a copper tubing cutter the size of the tubing? Starting the end of the tubing, use the tubing cutter just to make a 1/8” from the end, groove the tube, move down 1/8” and do it again, etc. Then when you tighten up your hose clamps on the rubber, it gives the inside of the rubber, something to grip on, instead of just a smooth surface.

Another thing you can do, is just take a pair of needle nose, and then two or three places at the end of the pipe, bend it out the tiniest little bit. The only problem with this is that sometimes it makes it near impossible to slip the hose on the tubing.

Hope it helps!

& That’s why I recommended a “junior” shed of miracles award.

 

[Uncle Gump]

Soo… Uhh… there seems to be a serious problem…

View attachment 95643

Nothing, and I mean nothing appears to at all be bent or broke enough to account for this major of a discrepancy in length. I questioned why it didn’t want to go together and then I discovered the problem. Don’t mind the vertical misalignment, that’s fine. Drivers beam is tire on the ground and the passenger side beam is on a jack and jackstand, so the suspension isn’t even drooped out, so it will just get worse from here…

Could it be an F150 axle got in there somehow?

Finally... was it working before you fooled with it?

 

[Rick W]

I got rained out from welding on the Road Ranger, so Lincoln and I went off on some errands in the Missing Linc. I was just about out of welding rods again. None at Home Depot, and then none at Lowe’s. Then I went to Harbor freight, and bought two of their packs and learned something.

Two of their packs equals one of the bigger packs at Lowe’s or Home Depot, but the two packs cost $18, and the bigger packs at Lowe’s and Home Depot cost $23.

Lesson learned. HF is one of my favorite places.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Could it be an F150 axle got in there somehow?

Finally... was it working before you fooled with it?

Well, to the best of my knowledge, the inner stub and slip joint are from a D-35. Same as the rest of the axle. I don’t remember ever collecting any D-44 parts other than the two complete straight axles I have and the D-44 TTB that’s in my F-150. I do have some D-28, D-28/35 hybrid, and apparently one set of D-35 parts. I don’t think a D-44 stub would fit in the pumpkin. Everything seems to measure out right except the length.

The stub and slip joint were broken from the TRS-20th trail ride. That I blew out on my second attempt at the first hill climb I came to.

It got me thinking though. I did an internal spring for a C-clip eliminator and when I put the D-35 together I had no reason to suspect anything amiss. So it’s possible I didn’t check and thinking I was pressing against the spring may have forced the axle enough to get it together. The spring was slightly mangled but in tact, but that doesn’t mean a whole lot as it was a short conical spring so it collapses into itself which means I could have flattened it to one coil in height easily. That would be enough to probably force it together. On the street it may not get enough movement to be a serious problem and the tires would absorb some of the restrained movement. When I hit that hill climb in 4-low and probably 2nd and popped the front end up on the rock towards the top, I would have unloaded the front suspension quickly and under power and well, bang I guess. Sounds to me like a rather logical conclusion.

But, if that’s indeed the problem, then that means either I’ve lifted past what my lift brackets can accommodate (which since I can still align it, or at least it was aligned, I don’t think that’s the case, but I could be wrong), or it means that my lift brackets are incorrectly manufactured. The brackets, are James Duff…

 

[Rick W]

Well, to the best of my knowledge, the inner stub and slip joint are from a D-35. Same as the rest of the axle. I don’t remember ever collecting any D-44 parts other than the two complete straight axles I have and the D-44 TTB that’s in my F-150. I do have some D-28, D-28/35 hybrid, and apparently one set of D-35 parts. I don’t think a D-44 stub would fit in the pumpkin. Everything seems to measure out right except the length.

The stub and slip joint were broken from the TRS-20th trail ride. That I blew out on my second attempt at the first hill climb I came to.

It got me thinking though. I did an internal spring for a C-clip eliminator and when I put the D-35 together I had no reason to suspect anything amiss. So it’s possible I didn’t check and thinking I was pressing against the spring may have forced the axle enough to get it together. The spring was slightly mangled but in tact, but that doesn’t mean a whole lot as it was a short conical spring so it collapses into itself which means I could have flattened it to one coil in height easily. That would be enough to probably force it together. On the street it may not get enough movement to be a serious problem and the tires would absorb some of the restrained movement. When I hit that hill climb in 4-low and probably 2nd and popped the front end up on the rock towards the top, I would have unloaded the front suspension quickly and under power and well, bang I guess. Sounds to me like a rather logical conclusion.

But, if that’s indeed the problem, then that means either I’ve lifted past what my lift brackets can accommodate (which since I can still align it, or at least it was aligned, I don’t think that’s the case, but I could be wrong), or it means that my lift brackets are incorrectly manufactured. The brackets, are James Duff…

Huh? So how many stops did the bus make?

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Huh? So how many stops did the bus make?

Was that really that hard to follow along with?

My conclusion based on the information I’ve figured so far is that my James Duff lift brackets were incorrectly manufactured which puts the axle hubs too close together for the axle shaft to properly fit and it is breaking stuff…

I could be wrong, but I haven’t been able to come up with a different answer to the problem of the axle shaft being too long.

 

[bobbywalter]

Well, to the best of my knowledge, the inner stub and slip joint are from a D-35. Same as the rest of the axle. I don’t remember ever collecting any D-44 parts other than the two complete straight axles I have and the D-44 TTB that’s in my F-150. I do have some D-28, D-28/35 hybrid, and apparently one set of D-35 parts. I don’t think a D-44 stub would fit in the pumpkin. Everything seems to measure out right except the length.

The stub and slip joint were broken from the TRS-20th trail ride. That I blew out on my second attempt at the first hill climb I came to.

It got me thinking though. I did an internal spring for a C-clip eliminator and when I put the D-35 together I had no reason to suspect anything amiss. So it’s possible I didn’t check and thinking I was pressing against the spring may have forced the axle enough to get it together. The spring was slightly mangled but in tact, but that doesn’t mean a whole lot as it was a short conical spring so it collapses into itself which means I could have flattened it to one coil in height easily. That would be enough to probably force it together. On the street it may not get enough movement to be a serious problem and the tires would absorb some of the restrained movement. When I hit that hill climb in 4-low and probably 2nd and popped the front end up on the rock towards the top, I would have unloaded the front suspension quickly and under power and well, bang I guess. Sounds to me like a rather logical conclusion.

But, if that’s indeed the problem, then that means either I’ve lifted past what my lift brackets can accommodate (which since I can still align it, or at least it was aligned, I don’t think that’s the case, but I could be wrong), or it means that my lift brackets are incorrectly manufactured. The brackets, are James Duff…

hmmmm...

can only pop apart when you are over center with modded offset. i have exploded the slips before and that is clearly not the case.

so i would guess your frame is broke...it has incorrect pivot spacing, or your axle can go deep over center......and it is a combination of over center and incorrect offset... i have seen incorrectly modified beams that would do that as well...we went to van slip yokes on that deal....but it was a 250. in that pic it dont look cut and turned


what is the spline count? is it 31? what is the shaft length? maybe its a 30 spline d44 left shaft... but it does look like a booted d35.... the left d44 will be a bit shorter....from a straight axle not a ttb 44.... the d50 lefts and rights would have a 1350 u joint and that wont fit in the knuckle....


that is crazy.

 

[Rick W]

Was that really that hard to follow along with?

My conclusion based on the information I’ve figured so far is that my James Duff lift brackets were incorrectly manufactured which puts the axle hubs too close together for the axle shaft to properly fit and it is breaking stuff…

I could be wrong, but I haven’t been able to come up with a different answer to the problem of the axle shaft being too long.

Hey, all is good. I use my ability and my creative instincts to create toys, but I don’t know the mechanics anywhere near the level of what you were discussing. But I’m happy and proud that you know it that well, and that’s why I like hanging out with this group.

 

[Rick W]

hmmmm...

can only pop apart when you are over center with modded offset. i have exploded the slips before and that is clearly not the case.

so i would guess your frame is broke...it has incorrect pivot spacing, or your axle can go deep over center......and it is a combination of over center and incorrect offset... i have seen incorrectly modified beams that would do that as well...we went to van slip yokes on that deal....but it was a 250. in that pic it dont look cut and turned


what is the spline count? is it 31? what is the shaft length? maybe its a 30 spline d44 left shaft... but it does look like a booted d35.... the left d44 will be a bit shorter....from a straight axle not a ttb 44.... the d50 lefts and rights would have a 1350 u joint and that wont fit in the knuckle....


that is crazy.

Yeah, what @bobbywalter said…

You can’t just put zip ties around it and then weld the zip ties?

 

[Curious Hound]

Could you have the driver side stub and passenger side stub swapped? I’m not sure if they’re same or different lengths. If you had both apart to change u-joints at the same time….

just thinking out loud here. I haven’t had that stuff apart recently.

 

[sgtsandman]

Was that really that hard to follow along with?

My conclusion based on the information I’ve figured so far is that my James Duff lift brackets were incorrectly manufactured which puts the axle hubs too close together for the axle shaft to properly fit and it is breaking stuff…

I could be wrong, but I haven’t been able to come up with a different answer to the problem of the axle shaft being too long.

This is why my truck is mostly stock with just some upgraded parts...

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

hmmmm...

can only pop apart when you are over center with modded offset. i have exploded the slips before and that is clearly not the case.

so i would guess your frame is broke...it has incorrect pivot spacing, or your axle can go deep over center......and it is a combination of over center and incorrect offset... i have seen incorrectly modified beams that would do that as well...we went to van slip yokes on that deal....but it was a 250. in that pic it dont look cut and turned


what is the spline count? is it 31? what is the shaft length? maybe its a 30 spline d44 left shaft... but it does look like a booted d35.... the left d44 will be a bit shorter....from a straight axle not a ttb 44.... the d50 lefts and rights would have a 1350 u joint and that wont fit in the knuckle....


that is crazy.

I’m thinking I might take a video to try and explain it better. I’ll try to cover this though in the mean time. Frame and brackets look perfect. Dirty and greasy but perfect. The only thing bent is the top and bottom of the drivers beam where the broken pieces whacked it but beam is still straight. At some point I’ll straighten that and reinforce it, but it’s not my problem with axle shaft fit and I feel pretty confident about saying that.

I’m not saying the shaft popped out, I’m saying it was bottomed out at ride height and when I unloaded the suspension under 4lo and a heavy boot which tried to compress the shaft that was already bottomed, something had to break. Couple full circle clips from my U-joints were missing after it all and I had a catastrophic failure of a U-joint. I may want to pull the stub and shine a light into the diff and see if I mangled the cross pin at all. The slip joint section was so firmly stuck to the outer passenger shaft that I drove around like that for a bunch and when I went to fix things here, I had to beat it off with a hammer.

Beams were reinforced but no cut and turn. James Duff axle pivot drops, 3” JD coils and F-150 spring perches. I built the extended arms and pushed the axle forward slightly with them, but not enough to cause any problems. I didn’t count splines, but it does fit like it’s supposed to and I measured how far the stub sticks out of the diff on my stock 92 and comparing those measurements to my Choptop, they are identical. Stub and slip joint were together in my shed with a less than stellar U-joint, so I knocked it out and put a new U-joint in. I used to never mark anything because I knew what was what, but now post concussions, I’m regretting not marking things, but I’m pretty confident I have the correct parts.

In the pic, the suspension is close to ride height. It will actually probably fit slightly better at ride height only because the beams tend to creep in when you jack the vehicle up on any TTB. But, if I blocked the frame and let the suspension sag down, that axle shaft would have to be shorter not to bottom out (since it’s already bottomed out), because the end of the beam would move in an arc that as it drops away from the frame, the shaft has to get shorter. I’m suspecting the U-joint caps spun (I have evidence of that through the entire passenger side assembly and a little on the drivers side) and the caps didn’t fit really tight in any of the yoke holes. I tacked the caps in this time to eliminate that potential problem.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Yeah, what @bobbywalter said…

You can’t just put zip ties around it and then weld the zip ties?

Unfortunately, no…