2wd 302 swap

[85_Ranger4x4]

I've never stared at them side by side - what's so different between the various intake setups? At first glance, all the 80's+ EFI intake setups are cosmetically similar.

Basically they tweaked them for different power levels. The boring 150hp cars got the boring ones with the TB on the drivers side, HO's got a slightly better one with the TB on the passenger side. Cobra Mustangs got the cool looking tubular upper intake and then when they needed more oomph for the Explorer knowing nobody would care what the intake looked like in the family conestoga they designed a cheaper cast version of the Cobra that performed the about the same but didn't look as cool.

I have heard the truck intakes flow the best but of course they don't fit in much aside from a truck.

 

[19Walt93]

If you want to use a factory 4 barrel intake, the 83-85 Mustang manifold is an aluminum copy of the cast iron 289 manifold from the 60's with an egr port cast in that can be blocked off. A 1 inch tall, 4 hole phenolic spacer will make more low end and keep the fuel from boiling during a hot soak. I think an Edelbrock Performer would outperform the OEM Mustang manifold, even on a mostly stock engine. If you want to use a 2 barrel and don't mind giving up a little bottom end, the 2 barrel used on 429's in big cars flows 500 CFM.

 

[don4331]

Couple hours behind here - and if you want to run a carb, no objection from me.

A '99 Explorer into '99 Ranger is probably the easiest installation. If you are worried about the RWD transmission, a Mustang with a 3.8 V6/auto would have the 4R70W with same bolt pattern as the 5.0 V-8/same connections as the Explorer's transmission did. And "secretaries" Mustangs are dime a dozen, so, everything remains a "bolt in".

For a manual, you would want to do a little more - at least program out the check engine from the 'missing' automatic.

 

[scotts90ranger]

I have nothing against carbs, when they work they're nice, but there is no way I would put a carburetor in something new... you would have to give me an already swapped vehicle, I will GO OUT OF MY WAY to use fuel injection... Kinda like I went out of my way to keep the DIS on my turbo Ranger... I have a Mountaineer sitting in the back that I'll probably swap into the '67 mustang I'll be dragging over here this summer... going from a carbed 289 to an injected 302 with a 4 speed auto instead of the C3 or whatever it has now should be nice...

That said, I'm sure it would be easier to go fuel injection as a turn key stock engine, it should accept some mods as is but going all out carb might be easier, but there's more motorsports over there than there is here...

 

[19Walt93]

My biggest complaint with EFI is the soggy throttle response and drive by wire is even worse. If I move the throttle on my carbureted Ranger or Mustang 1/16" it responds instantly and if I spike the throttle the tires smoke. Carbureted vehicles can be efficient, my 351/C4 Ranger averaged 16mpg all last summer even with me playing with the tune. My Mustang does even better, a few years ago I drove 2 hours at 75mph to New England Dragway, made 8 high 13 second passes down the track, drove 2 hours back home and then 3 days back and forth to work-and got 18 mpg. Both vehicles have Holley 80457 vacuum secondary carbs.

 

[fastpakr]

Interesting - I've never noticed that but certainly don't question your experience there. It doesn't seem to be an issue on EFI motorcycles though - their throttle response is absolutely instant. Maybe a small delay in MAF reporting on a car versus TPS measurement on a speed density system?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I have never noticed much of a difference between carb and cable EFI for throttle response.

Drive by wire, especially in the mid 00's when it came out can have a very nasty hesitation. Dad's '05 F-150 does, when you go to jump out into traffic it is just long enough to make you question if you stalled. I personally couldn't put up with it.

My wife's car is drive by wire and is snappy as anything else, I think there was a learning curve when they first came out.

 

[RonD]

I have never noticed a difference between EFI and carb if both are using a throttle cable/gas pedal setup
Air is what increases RPMs, so opening throttle plate on either should have the same lag time
If there was a latency in either that would be an issue with accelerator pump on a carb or throttle sensor on an EFI, both serve the same purpose, instant throttle response

Never looked at drive-by-wire
In theory its "speed of light" for electrical signals traveling from from pedal sensor to throttle actuator, but I would image its not direct wiring, there would be some "tests" happening to prevent "run away" wide open throttle, but that shouldn't take too long, in human perception time frame, lol

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I have never noticed a difference between EFI and carb if both are using a throttle cable/gas pedal setup
Air is what increases RPMs, so opening throttle plate on either should have the same lag time
If there was a latency in either that would be an issue with accelerator pump on a carb or throttle sensor on an EFI, both serve the same purpose, instant throttle response

Never looked at drive-by-wire
In theory its "speed of light" for electrical signals traveling from from pedal sensor to throttle actuator, but I would image its not direct wiring, there would be some "tests" happening to prevent "run away" wide open throttle, but that shouldn't take too long, in human perception time frame, lol

The newer stuff is much better, like I said when it first came out it was pretty clunky IMO.

Fighter jets have been fly-by-wire since at least the 70's so the tech for it to be instant is nothing new... just took a bit for everybody to get it figured out I guess.

 

[Jack Bossick]

So my parts list that I’m working on is follows: 302 from a 99 explorer, aftermarket intake for maybe a 302 carbureted mustang, Holley 4 barrel carb, an air cleaner, 8.8 diff from a explorer or a mustang, adapter plates for the motor mounts (maybe if I need them) am I going to have to delete most of the wiring? I should keep the BCM right? Also, should I go with a mustang trans, or go with the f150 trans? The f150 trans will bolt in its just a little bit wider.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

So my parts list that I’m working on is follows: 302 from a 99 explorer, aftermarket intake for maybe a 302 carbureted mustang, Holley 4 barrel carb, an air cleaner, 8.8 diff from a explorer or a mustang, adapter plates for the motor mounts (maybe if I need them) am I going to have to delete most of the wiring? I should keep the BCM right? Also, should I go with a mustang trans, or go with the f150 trans? The f150 trans will bolt in its just a little bit wider.

The reason everybody says an EFI swap will be easier is... pretty much nothing in the truck will know what the heck is going on without an EFI engine. Your dash is all electronic so none of the gauges will work, same with cruise, probably even A/C if you have it is going to be on the fritz.

You are going to be basically starting over from an empty shell.

For sure snag an EVTM off of ebay for your year of Ranger, then you can decide wire by wire what you need and don't need.

 

[don4331]

So my parts list that I’m working on is follows: 302 from a 99 explorer, aftermarket intake for maybe a 302 carbureted mustang, Holley 4 barrel carb, an air cleaner, 8.8 diff from a explorer or a mustang, adapter plates for the motor mounts (maybe if I need them) am I going to have to delete most of the wiring? I should keep the BCM right? Also, should I go with a mustang trans, or go with the f150 trans? The f150 trans will bolt in its just a little bit wider.

If you are using the 4R70W transmission, the case is the same for Mustang/F150/Explorer, just tail shaft & output housing differences between 2 and 4wd

Unfortunately, to change tail shafts you have to pull everything out from the front and put it all back in after swapping.​

Mustang transmissions just tend to be newer/few miles than F150s around here - people don't drive Mustangs in winter in Canada.​

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Mustang rear diff is substantially wider, and is 4 link using coils, so a whole different level of fabrication; again the Explorer is bolt in. Note: The 7.5 your truck currently has will survive quite well if treated kindly (no axle hop) and the Ranger 8.8 is actually stronger than most factory 9". An aftermarket 9" with all the go fast goodies is stronger, but has price to match.

Depending on local rules, things like air bags, anti lock brakes not working would result in you failing safety and not being able to license, so BCM is often mandatory.

 

[Junglejoe]

Is there any particular reason why you don't want EFI? For a daily driver, can't beat it

 

[Jack Bossick]

Is there any particular reason why you don't want EFI? For a daily driver, can't beat it

I’m not looking to daily it when I put the v8 in. I want it to be my weekend racer. Slay some tires and see how it compares to my buddies cars and trucks. As far as the trans, I think the trans that bolts in is I think the r2 because the the ranger has the r1 in it. I don’t think I will keep the ac, and I’m looking at making a custom gauge cluster, but I think if I splice some wires and root out the ones I don’t need, I think the regular cluster should work. That being said, the cluster in it has a funky coolant temp gauge where it likes to go cold and go slowly warm and drop back down to cold again. My daily driver right now is this ranger, because my daily driver blew a head gasket. So this project is a few months down the road by the time I have time to get my car running again.

 

[bobbywalter]

My biggest complaint with EFI is the soggy throttle response and drive by wire is even worse. If I move the throttle on my carbureted Ranger or Mustang 1/16" it responds instantly and if I spike the throttle the tires smoke. Carbureted vehicles can be efficient, my 351/C4 Ranger averaged 16mpg all last summer even with me playing with the tune. My Mustang does even better, a few years ago I drove 2 hours at 75mph to New England Dragway, made 8 high 13 second passes down the track, drove 2 hours back home and then 3 days back and forth to work-and got 18 mpg. Both vehicles have Holley 80457 vacuum secondary carbs.

For steady state or limited conditions work, carbs can and do work very well....put up against obd1, in a specific condition...they can even out perform captain cave pig efi....by quite a margin in some cases....

Keeping them that way of course is the issue over 70k..... I know my royalstar is getting on my nerves these days....

But ....


I am absolutely shocked...from of all people...to hear you appear to brand out a carb out performing throttle response.


Sure...a stock tune is exactly that...carb or efi....

But I can for sure say a quality efi on your exact engine....throttle by wire or mechanical...especially with a modern automatic....tuned...like yours is dialed in....will provably respond faster with more power.

It is all tune. And the factory stuff is limited for good reason...and generally comes at a price. Like my current 150 the wife drives is a giant pos.

But very fixable...

Look at the banks pedal monster. Specifically for pedal lag...


The nice thing about efi and drive by wire...you can have an 800 hp daily driver....because when it needs to ..it can sluggishly respond.

But I think you know this...and was making a separate point about specifics.

Recurving dizzy and rejetting carb and changing cam position on our camper special was absolutely necessary due to its sluggish response.

And that sluggish response was an artificial dictation by the government which may get a better number if leaving things alone to the market forces