2035

[oldgeek]

People on the internet keep bringing up California's debt, even when California doesn't have debt

That's interesting. Is there a source showing the state's lack of debt? It conflicts with many sources showing $143B in 2021. Perhaps they are in error?

 

[1990RangerinSK]

No, I didnt explain it well. It takes more energy to drive than is produced. There isnt a perpetual energy machine that works, and that is what you're describing. If you utilize wasted energy then that works. Such as in brake regeneration, turbo chargers. What you're describing would be like having the rear brakes always on a little bit.

Perpetual energy would imply that generation:consumption would be 1:1. I've built into my calculations the fact that you won't be able to replace all of the power you use, driving down the road (theoretically, the ratio would be .75:1).

We all know that adding accessories to an ICE robs the ICE of power. Yes, it makes sense that adding a generator to the rear wheels of an EV will reduce it's range. BUT, it will not reduce the range to 0. And, the generator will compensate for the loss, while at the same time extending the range.

The way I see it, rather than just writing the idea off, why couldn't somebody do some research, and figure out how much power the generator would rob, and how to compensate for the lost power?

 

[1990RangerinSK]

A graviton is a theoretical "particle" of Gravity
We know there is Gravity, lol, each time we trip or drop something on our foot
We just don't know how it works, at this time
Limitless power if you can harness Gravity

There's no such thing as gravity. The earth sucks.

 

[Bill]

That's interesting. Is there a source showing the state's lack of debt? It conflicts with many sources showing $143B in 2021. Perhaps they are in error?

It comes and goes. There's debt now after COVID, but the debt from the last recession was wiped out. California receives a large amount of its tax revenue based on income taxes. California also has higher and lower economic cycles. So, when the national economy is good it is usually much better than the rest of the country. When the national economy is bad, California usually experiences a deeper recession. The differences in income tax revenue accounts for the debt cycles in California.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Perpetual energy would imply that generation:consumption would be 1:1. I've built into my calculations the fact that you won't be able to replace all of the power you use, driving down the road (theoretically, the ratio would be .75:1).

We all know that adding accessories to an ICE robs the ICE of power. Yes, it makes sense that adding a generator to the rear wheels of an EV will reduce it's range. BUT, it will not reduce the range to 0. And, the generator will compensate for the loss, while at the same time extending the range.

The way I see it, rather than just writing the idea off, why couldn't somebody do some research, and figure out how much power the generator would rob, and how to compensate for the lost power?

You could be right, but I think the EV manufacturer wouldn't overlook such a big jump in range if it was doable.

 

[RonD]

In high school we always "jacked up" the rear end(lifted for the youngsters) so we were always going downhill, really saved on the gas

Brakes waste the energy you already used to get up to speed, they just change it into heat and its gone
Regenerative braking recovers some that energy by using the electric motor in reverse(as a generator), or separate generator as you apply the brakes harder it generates more power/resistance that slows you down more

In previous example of having FWD electric motor and having generators on the rear wheels
The generator would not be engage when driving, no resistance
But when pressed the brake pedal the generator would be engaged, causing vehicle to slow, and you would recover some of the energy used to speed up, its not a lot but it ain't 0 either, lol
There are also brake pads

 

[stmitch]

If anybody is interested in reading the actual proposal, instead of jumping to conclusions based on incomplete, uninformed reports from sensationalist media:

Advanced Clean Cars II | California Air Resources Board

Latest Update - Amendments to Advanced Clean Cars II In October 2023, staff launched a new effort to consider potential amendments to the Advanced Clean Cars II regulations, including updates to the tailpipe greenhouse gas emission standard and limited revisions to the Low-emission Vehicle and...

ww2.arb.ca.gov

PHEVs will still be allowed under the mandate. So people that can't charge an EV where they live, or can't find an EV that will suit their needs (towing long distance, etc) should still have ICE options available to buy new. And of course, older vehicles will still be allowed.

OEMs have also been outperforming the current regulations and stockpiling credits that could be used in the future to allow them to continue selling some ICE vehicles after the 2035 deadline.

But GM has already set a goal to be 100% EV by 2035, and has budgeted $35 Billion toward EVs from 2021-2025.
Ford expects to be 100% EV in Europe by 2035, and has budgeted $50 Billion toward EVs from 2021-2026.
VW also expects to be 100% EV in Europe by 2035, and has budgeted $100 Billion on EV spending from 2021-2026.

The big money is all shifting toward EVs as battery costs decline. This doesn't include any other spending from Tesla, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai/Kia, etc. And we're only talking about the next 4-5 years here. There will be another decade of spending and development after that before this deadline is reached. The point being that over the next 5 years, we'll see unprecedented investment in EVs from major automakers. There's more money being spent and more very smart people working on EVs than ever before and that will continue from 2025-2035. That means that the EV landscape will be much different in 2035 than it is now. And mandates like this allow OEMs and utilities to allocate the proper resources to get there.

 

[Roert42]

If anybody is interested in reading the actual proposal, instead of jumping to conclusions based on incomplete, uninformed reports from sensationalist media:

 

[Uncle Gump]

I don't believe much anymore that ends in .gov

When preceeded by ca... it even makes it more unbelievable.

Also... any information pumped out under the current administration is really a pipe dream and mostly fake news.

It's taken over a century to evolve to where we are now... they say they can change it all in the the next 13 years... hogwash.

 

[oldgeek]

It comes and goes. There's debt now after COVID, but the debt from the last recession was wiped out. California receives a large amount of its tax revenue based on income taxes. California also has higher and lower economic cycles. So, when the national economy is good it is usually much better than the rest of the country. When the national economy is bad, California usually experiences a deeper recession. The differences in income tax revenue accounts for the debt cycles in California.

Could you be thinking of the budget surplus that happens on occasion? Think California had a surplus a couple years ago. It was on the news. But the debt is the accumulation of budget deficits, which is projected to be over $180B by 2027.

Have a friend that lives close to LA that is a contractor. He's hurting right now for work. Hope things get better.

 

[oldgeek]

One of my concerns is that they might insist that emergency vehicles go all electric. Extreme heat and cold cut running capacity greatly. Extreme cold might make the vehicle unusable.

 

[stmitch]

I don't believe much anymore that ends in .gov

When preceeded by ca... it even makes it more unbelievable.

Also... any information pumped out under the current administration is really a pipe dream and mostly fake news.

It's taken over a century to evolve to where we are now... they say they can change it all in the the next 13 years... hogwash.

LOL. Ok then. The people proposing and passing the law are telling you what they're doing and you don't believe them. Who are you going to believe instead?

Wonder how many people thought that Kennedy's goal to reach the moon in less than a decade was "hogwash"? And yet they did it.
10 years ago, having multiple all-electric vehicles with 250+ miles of range at various price ranges was probably thought to be "hogwash" too and yet here we are...

What the hell has happened to this country? We used to set big goals and achieve them, or at least learn a ton along the way. Now, lots of people that claim to be patriots, or lovers of independence just whine and poo poo big ideas and goals that can actually improve our freedom and independence, while they parrot poorly thought out arguments about "big government overreach", or "killing freedom".
Hate high gas prices? Maybe instead of blaming politicians or big companies you could get an EV or hybrid?
Want to stick it to big oil? Get an EV and/or solar on your house.
Want to help the US depend less and less on foreign nations for energy? Get an EV and/or solar on your house.
Want to be less dependent on the government or big corporations? Control your energy usage with renewables and limiting your consumption.

 

[Uncle Gump]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be working towards alternatives... we need to. But what works for the elites... the left or right coasts... or the people that choose to live in densely populated areas... doesn't work so well for middle America.

They should really be focused on lowering our reliance on China... our largest adversary. Maybe even educating our children and not making middle Americans pay for the education of the college educated elites. How about we secure our boarders and send some resources there instead of hiring 87,000 IRS agents. How about we get back to energy independence while we work on an alternate. Maybe we should also get a lot tougher on crime and stop letting these offenders back on the streets only to offend again. My list could keep going... but I've made the point I wanted to.

Let's get there... but let's not cripple the working class tax payers in the process.

 

[Uncle Gump]

LOL. Ok then. The people proposing and passing the law are telling you what they're doing and you don't believe them. Who are you going to believe instead?

Wonder how many people thought that Kennedy's goal to reach the moon in less than a decade was "hogwash"? And yet they did it.
10 years ago, having multiple all-electric vehicles with 250+ miles of range at various price ranges was probably thought to be "hogwash" too and yet here we are...

What the hell has happened to this country? We used to set big goals and achieve them, or at least learn a ton along the way. Now, lots of people that claim to be patriots, or lovers of independence just whine and poo poo big ideas and goals that can actually improve our freedom and independence, while they parrot poorly thought out arguments about "big government overreach", or "killing freedom".
Hate high gas prices? Maybe instead of blaming politicians or big companies you could get an EV or hybrid?
Want to stick it to big oil? Get an EV and/or solar on your house.
Want to help the US depend less and less on foreign nations for energy? Get an EV and/or solar on your house.
Want to be less dependent on the government or big corporations? Control your energy usage with renewables and limiting your consumption.

I was going to buy a hybrid maverick... but I was a bit late to order for this year. A full electric just doesn't work for me... maybe in the future.

And honestly... if you don't think there is some overreach in today's current administration... I feel sorry for you.

 

[stmitch]

This mandate is approved by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and only applies to California. I'm not sure why you're extrapolating from that to judgement about current Federal leadership, or anything in "Middle America".

It's likely that other CARB states may follow, but again, that's primarily the "coastal Elites" choosing their own rules, in their own states. That's the core of the States Rights principles that so many "conservatives" claim to love. Somebody in IL is not going to be directly impacted by this.