Faulty Fuel Injector causing mis at startup?

[eightynine4x4]

Yes, those are the pushrods

Yes, either mis-adjusted or collapsed lifter

That's why the adjustment is set from 0 lash and then 1 and 3/4 turns, not based on pressure feedback from pushrod/lifter

Rotate the engine more and test other pushrods with valves closed, to see what the average "tightness" is on the pushrods

Ok. I actually didn't rotate the engine to any partiular position yet, just reached in and touched those lifters and a few spun.
I've still got to learn a thing or two about observing the valves for this. I know i need spark plugs out but i have to go through the lessons of valve location. Will probably consult Haynes if they have a section. But once i have that down, I'll make a list of which rods are easy to spin and when. Maybe having a chart of that information will shed some light on my noisy engine.
Would collapsed lifters quiet down as engine warmed up and oil flow improved? Or would collapsed lifters simply always be noisy? Reason i ask is because my engine does get pretty smooth, not tapping or noise, a lot of the time it's driving.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

If the valves were both closed there pry was no tension on the pushrod

 

[RonD]

Collapsed lifter makes noise all the time but less after oil pressure builds up, it really depends on how it failed

 

[eightynine4x4]

There are many times when there is no real noise or ticking, sounds pretty smooth. For instance this is a video of both versions from last week. First 10 seconds is ticking, second half is quiet.
So I’m hoping this indicates that I don’t have collapsed lifters…? Maybe? And that maybe the pre load is just way out of adjustment? Because can collapsed lifters sound this not clicky?
In any case, I should be able to do the cold TDC based adjustments tomorrow.

IMG_1618.MOV

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[rusty ol ranger]

That really light ticking could be fuel injector tick. Thats kinda what that sounds like.

 

[eightynine4x4]

That really light ticking could be fuel injector tick. Thats kinda what that sounds like.

Oh interesting. You mean in part 2? I had kinda been theorizing that the faint typewriter sound is just the distributor rotor spinning across all those little teeth of metal. Always sounds like it's coming from back here.
In any case, the prominent mechanical tick in part 1 is gone is part 2, so I'm hoping that this means my lifters aren't collapsed, since maybe the engine would never sound this quiet with collapsed lifters. But i'll wait for @RonD to tell otherwise !

 

[RonD]

All lifters won't collapse, just 1 or 2 over time is fairly normal, 250K+ miles
My 1994 4.0l has at least 2, at 400k+, they are original, so no complaints
Tick louder at cold start, even warm start sometimes, then goes away over 3 to 5min

Yes, Ford injectors are loud, for injectors, light ticking noise
When you just have the light ticking after warm up, have someone rev the engine, then have them shut off the key when engine is at say 2,000rpm
Injectors will shut off instantly, so if ticking abruptly stops you were hearing injectors(or spark), if ticking continues as engine RPMs drop to 0 then its valve train

 

[eightynine4x4]

Ok I’m going to check/set the lifter preloads soon. Just want to make sure I understand which one is which according to the valves i see. All videos i've found are mostly talk and very incomplete visuals, showing just one spring from one cylinder.

I understand the firing order and the layout of these, 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 6, bouncing from passenger side to drivers side, front of vehicle to back. There are two springs/valves per cylinder number. I know that one valve is compression and one valve is exhaust. I assume the exhaust ones have to be adjusted at their own TDC.
Which is the compression one? The one forward most in engine, towards front of vehicle?

And lets say i crank enough to set exactly TDC on the harmonic balancer pulley itself, as a convenient starting point. I know that that is only half the cycle. So, when that is at its mark, there is a potential for this actually being TDC or cylinder #5 compression valve instead of #1 compression valve, correct? So lets say luck has it that that's where I am... is the exhaust valve for #1 going to be TDC, and also the compression valve for #5 is TDC? So i believe the following would be the VISIBLE situation... in the pair of #5 valves, the front one (compression) will be at its highest visible point so TDC, and in the pair of #1 valves the back one (exhaust) will be at its highest point so TDC. Does that mean that i can do both the #5 compression adjustment and #1 exhaust adjustment at that time?

I think if i popped the distributor cap at that point, i'd see that the rotor is pointing perfectly at #5, facing 180 degrees from #1.

Moving forward 360 degrees, if i crank one full 360 degree round on the pulley and bring it to the TDC mark again. I'll be finally at the illustrious beginning point TDC of the total engine cycle... am i then going to see the front (compression) valve of #1 pair at its highest point, and the rear (exhaust) valve of #5 pair at its highest point? And can i then adjust #1 compression and #5 exhaust at that time?

And if i popped the distributor cap at that point, i believe i'd see the rotor pointing at #1 and facing 180 degrees from #5.

My greatest fear is that in the method above, i'm missing something fundamental that has to do with doubling the whole cycle or something... like i've got to find the TDC every OTHER time any given valve is at its highest visible point, or something like that.

If i have the compression/exhaust valves backwards above, and it's supposed to be exhaust in front and compression in back, someone please let me know! Although, i suppose if all else is correct it would all work fine still.

As for the loosening and tightening... When in the correct position, i'm loosening the hex nut a bit until i can wiggle the rocker arm that it's clamping down, then i'm tightening it until I'm just at the point where i can't jiggle that rocker arm at all, then i'm tightening it down 1 3/4 turns further and calling it a day. Correct?

 

[RonD]

I think you are going off into the weeds here making it more complicated than it is, yes there are faster ways to do all 12 valves, but its really only 12 valves so doesn't take that long to do them 1 at a time

With spark plugs out the engine/crank is easy to turn
Valve covers off
Get 12 pieces of tape

Look at the first valve on drivers side
Turn the crank and you will see that valve pushed down/open then keep turning until it comes back up and turn crank 1/2 turn more
Adjust that valve
Put a piece of tape on that rocker, to keep track

Repeat for next valve
So repeat 11 more times


Yes, when valve is in correct state, closed + 1/2 turn on crank, loosen hex nut until rocker is loose, not pressing on valve, tighten until rocker is touching valve, called 0 lash, then tighten 1 and 3/4 turns more
Next valve

 

[eightynine4x4]

I think you are going off into the weeds here making it more complicated than it is, yes there are faster ways to do all 12 valves, but its really only 12 valves so doesn't take that long to do them 1 at a time

With spark plugs out the engine/crank is easy to turn
Valve covers off
Get 12 pieces of tape

Look at the first valve on drivers side
Turn the crank and you will see that valve pushed down/open then keep turning until it comes back up and turn crank 1/2 turn more
Adjust that valve
Put a piece of tape on that rocker, to keep track

Repeat for next valve
So repeat 11 more times


Yes, when valve is in correct state, closed + 1/2 turn on crank, loosen hex nut until rocker is loose, not pressing on valve, tighten until rocker is touching valve, called 0 lash, then tighten 1 and 3/4 turns more
Next valve

Excellent got it.
I was confused because it's hard to find guides that include explanations of the relationship between compression valves and exhaust valves. And i don't like assuming things when i am potentially destroying my engine lol.
In the Haynes, they kinda gloss over it, and i interpret their instructions to mean that i do the adjustment for both compression & exhaust valves while the compression valve is TDC. So i was imagining doing the exhaust valve when it's down since that compression valve is up.
But your instructions seem to say that i should treat the exhaust valves independently of compression valves. 12 valves, one by one with their own cranking. Just get each valve up fully, turn extra half turn on crank, and do the hex nut adjustment. Right?

 

[eightynine4x4]

Actually, the TRS site says to do them in pairs.. so find TDC for the compression valve, and do both the compression and exhaust valve at same time.

2.9L V6 Valve Lash Adjustment​

• Remove spark plugs to allow easy turning of crankshaft To adjust both valves for each cylinder do cylinders one at a time in firing order. If the crankshaft did not move and is at Top Dead Center at #1 cylinder timing mark, adjust intake and exhaust valves of # one cylinder 1 ½ or1 3/4 turns tighter after 0 lash (no gap between rocker arm and end of valve) is achieved.
  ​
• Use a ¾” socket on crank, turn crank clockwise only (because you can jump the timing chain if you turn the crank the opposite way), until cylinder #4 intake valve (next cylinder In firing order), is a smidgen past closing. Adjust intake and exhaust valves at this time the same way as previously
  
  
  ​

 

[RonD]

Yes, just do them one at a time

And just FYI they are called Intake valves not compression valves, but we know what you mean


Doing 2 valves at the same time based on TDC and firing order can be confusing, even for pro mechanics with a distributor engine to tell them which cylinder is at TDC of its compression stroke
Each cylinder has TWO TDCs, Compression and Exhaust
On compression TDC both valves should have been closed for 1 full turn of crank, on exhaust TDC thats not the case, exhaust valve just closed and intake valve is just opening, so not good to set valve lash
This is off into the weeds stuff if you are a novice mechanic

If you want to learn and understand why and how to do 2 valves at the same time on that cylinders compression stroke TDC then give it a shot, you can hurt anything
If you get lost or are unsure then just do one valve at a time

 

[eightynine4x4]

Yes, just do them one at a time

And just FYI they are called Intake valves not compression valves, but we know what you mean


Doing 2 valves at the same time based on TDC and firing order can be confusing, even for pro mechanics with a distributor engine to tell them which cylinder is at TDC of its compression stroke
Each cylinder has TWO TDCs, Compression and Exhaust
On compression TDC both valves should have been closed for 1 full turn of crank, on exhaust TDC thats not the case, exhaust valve just closed and intake valve is just opening, so not good to set valve lash
This is off into the weeds stuff if you are a novice mechanic

If you want to learn and understand why and how to do 2 valves at the same time on that cylinders compression stroke TDC then give it a shot, you can hurt anything
If you get lost or are unsure then just do one valve at a time

Ok I’m being really pedantic here but not one set of instructions are making perfect sense to me, especially not the Haynes, so i wanted to post a video for point of reference. The valve movements are not quite what i was expecting. (Ps, if vid plays poor quality in browser, you can download it for full res)

Questions, in order of stupidity..

1, the valve is the spring, correct? This makes all the difference in the world when taking about up / down / open / closed

2, which one is the intake and which is the exhaust?

3, when I do find TDC for a given Cylinder, am I doing the adjustment of BOTH the hex nuts then at that crank position? I seem to get a resounding yes to that, but @RonD when you say do all 12 valves the same way, 1/2 crank turn past the valve closing, it sounds like that’s two different spots for the cylinder. So I’m imagining NOT doing both the intake and exhaust nuts at one given location. Or are you meaning find the crank position with one of the valves, then do both hex nuts? And which valve is king?

Anyways, I was expecting to see both valves closed for 1 full crank turn prior to what is the TDC. But as you can see in video, there is still a valve closing about half turn prior to TDC. In fact it’s just past half way that it’s fully closed. So that’s confusing too.


So I resorted to electronics to try and gain some confidence.. I hooked up a DMM for continuity checks from distributor coil center pin to ends of plug wires. Was hoping to see continuity as the rotor touched each wire. No dice. Then I discovered that each wire has like 6-7K ohms resistance. Ok? Didn’t expect that. So then I switched meter to read ohms, expecting to see 6-7K reading whenever the rotor touched the wire.. and got nothing. Tried a couple wires like this… restating crank multiple times just carefully looking for readings and got nothing ever. Good lord, shouldn’t there be SOME kind of electrical communication from coil pin to plug connector as each cylinder TDC? I am confused.

All of this is simply in a boneheaded effort to find TDC for each cylinder, or valve, or whatever. I’m not even sure what the right method is haha.

If someone can watch this video, which i narrate the crank position through, and explain to me how to apply TDC location to all valves/cylinders, that would be amazing.

IMG_1629.MOV

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[RonD]

There are TWO TDCs for each cylinder because its a 4-stroke engine

1. Intake stroke, piston is just leaving TDC and going down as intake valve is opening, this sucks in air and fuel
2. Compression stroke, piston is at BDC(bottom dead center) and on its way up, intake valve is now fully closed, this compresses the air/fuel mix
3. Power stroke, piston is at TDC again, both valves closed, spark plug fires, and the explosion pushes piston down to BDC
4. Exhaust stroke, piston at BDC and on its way up, exhaust valve opens to allow piston to push out burnt air/fuel mix to exit into exhaust system, exhaust valve is closed now and piston is back at TDC
Back to 1.

So the TDC you described was the 1. or 4., because exhaust AND intake valve will be moving before and after that TDC

The TDC you want is the 2. and 3., intake valve is full closed at BDC, and exhaust valve won't open until piston is back at BDC, which is one full turn of the crank, so at TDC Compression stroke both valves are fully closed
But NOT at Exhaust TDC

Simple one cylinder gif seen on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroke_engine
When spark fires that the TDC you need to be on to adjust both valve on that one cylinder

Look at the exhaust manifold, the valve closest to the to that exhaust port is the exhaust valve, the other is the intake valve, you will see it is pretty obvious

2.9l head seen here: https://www.therangerstation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/2-9_cylinder_head-1.jpg
Exhaust is at the bottom of pic, intake at the top
You can see how 3 valves line up with intake ports and 3 valves line up with exhaust ports

 

[eightynine4x4]

There are TWO TDCs for each cylinder because its a 4-stroke engine

1. Intake stroke, piston is just leaving TDC and going down as intake valve is opening, this sucks in air and fuel
2. Compression stroke, piston is at BDC(bottom dead center) and on its way up, intake valve is now fully closed, this compresses the air/fuel mix
3. Power stroke, piston is at TDC again, both valves closed, spark plug fires, and the explosion pushes piston down to BDC
4. Exhaust stroke, piston at BDC and on its way up, exhaust valve opens to allow piston to push out burnt air/fuel mix to exit into exhaust system, exhaust valve is closed now and piston is back at TDC
Back to 1.

So the TDC you described was the 1. or 4., because exhaust AND intake valve will be moving before and after that TDC

The TDC you want is the 2. and 3., intake valve is full closed at BDC, and exhaust valve won't open until piston is back at BDC, which is one full turn of the crank, so at TDC Compression stroke both valves are fully closed
But NOT at Exhaust TDC

Simple one cylinder gif seen on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroke_engine
When spark fires that the TDC you need to be on to adjust both valve on that one cylinder

Look at the exhaust manifold, the valve closest to the to that exhaust port is the exhaust valve, the other is the intake valve, you will see it is pretty obvious

2.9l head seen here: https://www.therangerstation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/2-9_cylinder_head-1.jpg
Exhaust is at the bottom of pic, intake at the top
You can see how 3 valves line up with intake ports and 3 valves line up with exhaust ports

Thank you, all of this makes so much more sense and I feel close to having a method.
Final point of confusion…

Referring to the wiki…

Do I want to adjust BOTH the exhaust nut and intake nut at the position #3 (TDC moment of spark) ?
Or, do I want to adjust only the intake nut at position # (X) and only the exhaust nut at position # (X) ?