Faulty Fuel Injector causing mis at startup?

[rusty ol ranger]

If that's the correct Year diagram then the 2.9l would have Orange as a ground and no connection to pin 49 on PCM

Orange/black wire would show 12v with key on

Those are the 2 heater wires

The sensor wires are pin 29 green/purple
And "black"/green? can't see where it goes but most likely a reference ground, pin 46, this pin is connected to several sensors, grey/red wires

This is why i called in the big artillery for wireing lol

 

[eightynine4x4]

If that's the correct Year diagram then the 2.9l would have Orange as a ground and no connection to pin 49 on PCM

Orange/black wire would show 12v with key on

Those are the 2 heater wires

The sensor wires are pin 29 green/purple
And "black"/green? can't see where it goes but most likely a reference ground, pin 46, this pin is connected to several sensors, grey/red wires

Ok gotcha,
Well in any case it was a ground that was left not connected and relates to O2, and j have faulty O2 readings, so hopefully it’s something.

I just warmed the truck up to see if anything non - O2 might have changed from the ground wire, but nothing changed. I didn’t take it for a drive, which is when I would have seen the check engine light come on which hopefully was solved by the ground wire. I’ll leave that for another time becsuee…

It was a bad startup and warmup overall, so I decided the record the whole damn thing just to display the issues here. Video below. It’s only 1 minute long, and contains 5 sections labeled with time stamps to show progress over about 15 minutes. Headphones go a long way to revealing the sound of the engine, if anyone isinterested in hearing it better.

Right at startup, it was mildly lumpy like a mis. This is a cold start. That quickly sorted itself out on its own , but then it entered this wavering RPM world starting at 0:15 seconds. Normally what I do here is throttle it several times until it levels out around idle range and stays steady. This time I chose to just let it do its thing and maybe I could learn something from it.

Rest assured, it’s not like this driving the truck ever. This is really bad sounding at first, but it gradually gets better. Usually when it idles this long the ticking is gone, but it’s still faintly there at end. Sometimes this happens, but usually it’s gone. But I know, for 100% certain, that if I had pulled out and driven the truck down the street that by the time I was two blocks away the tick would be gone and would stay gone for 20-30 minutes. And when I drove it for a long period, the lightweight ticking would come and go but it would never get severe like it is here at the beginning of video.

Is the ECM responsible for the wavering? Is it scanning around trying to learn stuff from the RPMs that can also be learned by me gunning the throttle a bunch?

On a side note, it’s starting to seem more and more like a healthy oil pump could help a lot.

IMG_1592.MOV

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[rusty ol ranger]

The ECM could be causing the wavering...but not because its relearning i dont think.

It could be a bad ECM causing that...but my gut really tells me its mechanical. Rather it quiets down or not...that sounds horrid.

If you plan on rebuilding the 2.9 and not swapping it it might be worth buying an ECM if it gives you piece of mind

 

[eightynine4x4]

The ECM could be causing the wavering...but not because its relearning i dont think.

It could be a bad ECM causing that...but my gut really tells me its mechanical. Rather it quiets down or not...that sounds horrid.

If you plan on rebuilding the 2.9 and not swapping it it might be worth buying an ECM if it gives you piece of mind

So you’re leaning towards the slow RPM wavering being mechanical? And all the engine noise/ticking being weak oil pump?

 

[rusty ol ranger]

So you’re leaning towards the slow RPM wavering being mechanical? And all the engine noise/ticking being weak oil pump?

I think the lifters are starving for oil, which is affecting valve operation, and causing a weird air/fuel mix coming into the engine and exhaust leaving it.

Im not saying i cant be wrong...and if you had these symptoms without the crazy noises id probably blame the ECM at this point to. But the noises tell me that engine is hurtin

 

[eightynine4x4]

I think the lifters are starving for oil, which is affecting valve operation, and causing a weird air/fuel mix coming into the engine and exhaust leaving it.

Im not saying i cant be wrong...and if you had these symptoms without the crazy noises id probably blame the ECM at this point to. But the noises tell me that engine is hurtin

I do plan on rebuilding it at some point within the next year or so. So maybe it makes sense to first install a new pump but keep it the normal volume. Maybe with some luck it will be less horrible sounding during warmup.

The engine has power, even more so with the fresh oil. Doesn’t drive like a cooked engine.

But before I do the pump, I’ll open valve covers and take a look. What mechanicals can I address / adjust with just the valve covers off?

Or, a compromise could be to just do a top end rebuild. Plus pump.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

I do plan on rebuilding it at some point within the next year or so. So maybe it makes sense to first install a new pump but keep it the normal volume. Maybe with some luck it will be less horrible sounding during warmup.

The engine has power, even more so with the fresh oil. Doesn’t drive like a cooked engine.

But before I do the pump, I’ll open valve covers and take a look. What mechanicals can I address / adjust with just the valve covers off?

Or, a compromise could be to just do a top end rebuild. Plus pump.

There is a procedure to adjust the valves on it, even though they arnt *supposed* to be adjustable. Ive never done it but there are guys who have.

i think the procedure is in the tech library.

Other then that i dont know of any other adjustments.

It might run strong...but once you get it straightned up itll run really strong.

 

[eightynine4x4]

There is a procedure to adjust the valves on it, even though they arnt *supposed* to be adjustable. Ive never done it but there are guys who have.

i think the procedure is in the tech library.

Other then that i dont know of any other adjustments.

It might run strong...but once you get it straightned up itll run really strong.

I wish I would have known enough about the 2.9 issues when I first got the truck, to just automatically replace the oil pump. It’s funny that this fuel injector thread has devolved to another 2.9 oil thread. But you live and you learn.
I’m interested in rebuilding the engine soon but not yet. Have workspace needs to solve. But first I’m going to spring for the M328 high volume pump and see how it goes. I did a little poking around and found that the Melling IS-128 may very well be their shaft intended for both the standard volume and high volume. It makes sense to produce only one version of the shaft. And if you go to Summit it’s clearly labeled as heavy duty and also has “Intended for High Volume Pump: Yes” in the details.

1989 FORD RANGER Melling IS128 Melling Heavy-Duty Intermediate Driveshafts | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Melling Heavy-Duty Intermediate Driveshafts with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Oil Pump Driveshafts at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

But here’s a wild question…

On a 2.9, is any surface / segment of the oil pump exposed to the air or is it fully inside the engine and enclosed by the oil pan?

If my pump was on its last legs, and if the pump is exposed to the air at all, I think I MAY have further smoked it while doing the Motor Medic. I don’t expect that a healthy pump would give out from an engine flush, but maybe a failing one could since it’s so thin.

Reason I think this is because during flush for a very brief moment I saw a single puff of smoke or something come up from radiator area. Shut down truck immediately and inspected. Found nothing weird, so figured it was just the wind that carried a bit of exhaust over from muffler and found it’s way up. Happens all the time. But then just yesterday I found an small oil drenched gasket sitting directly under the front of the engine. See pic below. That’s makes little sense, I mean how could a bolt mounted gasket just fall out of its fastening? I don’t know. But it’s there and there’s not denying it came from my truck.

On the drive I took after flush and oil change, it was already warmed up of course and the engine was the quietest it’s ever been, except for lightweight ticking that came back. So I don’t think I’ve mangled the engine. But this gasket is alarming, although it seems impossible. Maybe it was just some old gasket that from previous owner that was stuck to oil on engine for years and finally fell off.

Anyways im comitted to the 2.9 (although not committed to the A4LD) and so I think it still makes sense to put the pump in and worst case is I still have to rebuild sooner than expected. Best case is the flow helps a lot and I can drive the truck until rebuild.

10mm for scale.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

That gasket was in the pan?

Looks like the pickup tube gasket...

and no the oil pump is completly inside the pan.

If the HV pump works well for you let me know, cause ill put one in mine to shut it up.

Another member here named petroleumjunke420 built a pretty hipo 2.9 and was really looking into their common issues. He tried an HV pump and ran it on a stand and said it flooded the top end with oil. So that maybe the ticket assuming everything else is in good order.

 

[eightynine4x4]

That gasket was in the pan?

Looks like the pickup tube gasket...

and no the oil pump is completly inside the pan.

If the HV pump works well for you let me know, cause ill put one in mine to shut it up.

Another member here named petroleumjunke420 built a pretty hipo 2.9 and was really looking into their common issues. He tried an HV pump and ran it on a stand and said it flooded the top end with oil. So that maybe the ticket assuming everything else is in good order.

No I didn’t touch the pan at all. And the drain plug is not wide enough for this gasket to pop out unless it was bent a bunch. So I have no idea how it ended up on the ground but it’s fresh oil so clearly it was me and no other vehicle parks here.

On the note of flooding the top end.. I had a fun thought that it might be possible to create two hoses that run up from bottom of engine, through a small external pump and into hose splitter, and up to top of valve covers. Pump could just be Key-On, and this would prime the upper part of engine before startup and also provide upper engine another constant pathway for receiving oil other than through the cam bearing situation. Drilling holes in top of valve covers would be easy, and maybe using the pressure test output below would be adequate. A little more oil would be required. Would look pretty cool though, like some old steam punk design.

Anyways I will certainly update here when pump is in.

Will also try to figure out where this gasket came from. It’s pretty bonkers.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I wish I would have known enough about the 2.9 issues when I first got the truck, to just automatically replace the oil pump. It’s funny that this fuel injector thread has devolved to another 2.9 oil thread. But you live and you learn.
I’m interested in rebuilding the engine soon but not yet. Have workspace needs to solve. But first I’m going to spring for the M328 high volume pump and see how it goes. I did a little poking around and found that the Melling IS-128 may very well be their shaft intended for both the standard volume and high volume. It makes sense to produce only one version of the shaft. And if you go to Summit it’s clearly labeled as heavy duty and also has “Intended for High Volume Pump: Yes” in the details.

1989 FORD RANGER Melling IS128 Melling Heavy-Duty Intermediate Driveshafts | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Melling Heavy-Duty Intermediate Driveshafts with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Oil Pump Driveshafts at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

But here’s a wild question…

On a 2.9, is any surface / segment of the oil pump exposed to the air or is it fully inside the engine and enclosed by the oil pan?

If my pump was on its last legs, and if the pump is exposed to the air at all, I think I MAY have further smoked it while doing the Motor Medic. I don’t expect that a healthy pump would give out from an engine flush, but maybe a failing one could since it’s so thin.

Reason I think this is because during flush for a very brief moment I saw a single puff of smoke or something come up from radiator area. Shut down truck immediately and inspected. Found nothing weird, so figured it was just the wind that carried a bit of exhaust over from muffler and found it’s way up. Happens all the time. But then just yesterday I found an small oil drenched gasket sitting directly under the front of the engine. See pic below. That’s makes little sense, I mean how could a bolt mounted gasket just fall out of its fastening? I don’t know. But it’s there and there’s not denying it came from my truck.

On the drive I took after flush and oil change, it was already warmed up of course and the engine was the quietest it’s ever been, except for lightweight ticking that came back. So I don’t think I’ve mangled the engine. But this gasket is alarming, although it seems impossible. Maybe it was just some old gasket that from previous owner that was stuck to oil on engine for years and finally fell off.

Anyways im comitted to the 2.9 (although not committed to the A4LD) and so I think it still makes sense to put the pump in and worst case is I still have to rebuild sooner than expected. Best case is the flow helps a lot and I can drive the truck until rebuild.

10mm for scale.

View attachment 90491

I don't see that gasket as "popping" out. The bolt hole areas are not broken. It's an old gasket that happened to fall after being stuck somewhere for awhile.

 

[eightynine4x4]

Hey @PetroleumJunkie412
Any random thoughts and/or results about high volume oil pump in your 2.9?
My 2.9 is mysteriously loud and unstable. Pressure is there but weak. Considering propping it up to get a new pump in. Don’t have any means to pull the engine so will be toughing it out the rough way (which is actually what they suggest in the Haynes!).

 

[RonD]

I haven't read the whole thread but the 2.9l did have noisy valve train because of the way the oiling was done for the valve train
The two inner cam bearings oil passages were used to oil the valve train
One for left side and one for the right side
So as the cam bearings wore down, larger gaps, oil pressure for the valve train got lower and lower
Same can happen in the 4.0l OHV, same setup as 2.9l

Fix was to replace cam bearings
But you can try thicker oil, i.e. 40 or 50w, raises oil pressure in general
Marvel Mystery Oil can quiet the noise a bit, because of the way it coats parts

New oil pump would be extreme, but if its worn out then maybe it will help


Oil pressure is the oil the engine CAN NOT USE at any given time, its back pressure
The oil pressure gauge reads the pressure in the Main oil passage after the filter and before passage splits off to feed the bearings
The bearing gaps can only pass XX amount of oil, if the pump supplies XXX amount then you have back pressure that builds up in the Main passage, oil pressure
As RPMs go up the oil pump goes to XXXX but the bearings stay at XX because gaps are still the same, maybe XXx, lol, so back pressure goes up to 30 or 40psi of unneeded oil

As long as back pressure is above 5psi engine should be quiet and cooled, assuming all is well
With the 2.9l(4.0l) the cam bearing gaps would get too big so the 5psi would drop to 3 psi for the valve train, it might quiet down a bit at higher RPMs if enough oil can be pushed thru cam bearings

 

[eightynine4x4]

I haven't read the whole thread but the 2.9l did have noisy valve train because of the way the oiling was done for the valve train
The two inner cam bearings oil passages were used to oil the valve train
One for left side and one for the right side
So as the cam bearings wore down, larger gaps, oil pressure for the valve train got lower and lower
Same can happen in the 4.0l OHV, same setup as 2.9l

Fix was to replace cam bearings
But you can try thicker oil, i.e. 40 or 50w, raises oil pressure in general
Marvel Mystery Oil can quiet the noise a bit, because of the way it coats parts

New oil pump would be extreme, but if its worn out then maybe it will help


Oil pressure is the oil the engine CAN NOT USE at any given time, its back pressure
The oil pressure gauge reads the pressure in the Main oil passage after the filter and before passage splits off to feed the bearings
The bearing gaps can only pass XX amount of oil, if the pump supplies XXX amount then you have back pressure that builds up in the Main passage, oil pressure
As RPMs go up the oil pump goes to XXXX but the bearings stay at XX because gaps are still the same, maybe XXx, lol, so back pressure goes up to 30 or 40psi of unneeded oil

As long as back pressure is above 5psi engine should be quiet and cooled, assuming all is well
With the 2.9l(4.0l) the cam bearing gaps would get too big so the 5psi would drop to 3 psi for the valve train, it might quiet down a bit at higher RPMs if enough oil can be pushed thru cam bearings

Well gosh, that’s some amazing insight, thank you @RonD ! I’ve read a lot of your postings, but not yet seen this explanation.

So if I’m interpreting things correctly, the reason that oil has trouble getting up there into valvetrain isn’t due to it being blocked by aged bearings or parts, it’s due to their passages being too wide, and the pump’s momentum doesn’t push the oil far enough up through the now larger cavity? Almost like if you squeezed a plastic ketchup bottle and it squirted and hit the ceiling, but then if you widened the cap hole on the same bottle and squeezed it again it might just kinda bubble up and out and drip down to the floor.

But, what you’re saying is that if my engine is getting 38 PSI at 2K with warm engine, and 12-15 PSI at idle with warm engine, that should represent that there’s plenty of pressure for the oil to be getting up there. The ketchup should still hit the ceiling. It sounds like my pump might still be strong enough for getting oil up.

So if all we need is 5PSI to know the 2.9 is getting oiled, and assuming most people’s pumps are providing above that, then why do so many people have noisy/ticking 2.9s? And are 90% of people with noisy 2.9s falsely attributing it to the now legendary worn cam bearings? Maybe there are a number of other issues that can inhibit oil travel in the 2.9?

My engine can be very noisy, but it can also be very smooth and gurgley. So im having a hard time diagnosing.

Maybe I’ll try bumping up to 20W-50 and see what happens.

 

[RonD]

Because the oil pressure AFTER the cam bearings is too low
Replace cam bearings and noise will be gone for a few years, but will come back, just the way it's designed

Valvetrain Noise in the 2.9l, or 4.0l, doesn't hurt anything just annoying, it is being oiled just not as well as when new