VIN # Locations

[AllanD]

As interesting touch to lend "authenticity", have him stamp it upside-down
on the passenger side frame rail

The proper size for the digits is about 3/8"

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[OilPatch197]

I'd find someone with a really good printer/label maker- have them fab you up a new sticker matching the one on the dash. Affix it to the door jamb, smear a little paint on it (making it look like you rubbed paint off of it) and you're done.

You could also fab one out of a metal plate, tack it under the truck on the frame, and "discover" that one too...

I'm reading this thread and going WTF!? Here you just take your title in, pay some $$$ and out you come with your registration for the vin on the title.

 

[wrecking-crew]

As interesting touch to lend "authenticity", have him stamp it upside-down
on the passenger side frame rail

The proper size for the digits is about 3/8"

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isnt that technicly illegal?

 

[racsan]

id go to a junkyard, get another dash v.i.n. and drivers side door.

 

[BigJohn76]

isnt that technicly illegal?

no. he will be using the same vin as the dash plate. going to the junkyard and getting different plates, however, is.

 

[OilPatch197]

It is illegal to remove or alter the vin # of a motor vehicle.....Should an altered vin # be encountered (which includes method of attachment) at best the tag is seized, and a state tag will be placed on the vehicle in place of the original (that'll really help if you ever go to sell the car). Should the vehicle not have a secondary #, to authenticate its identity, the vehicle will be crushed.

On the state level, cars without tags can get crushed- Cars which were stolen and had the vins popped were crushed back in
75...the parts had all been swapped around, and the Judge ordered them destroyed because they could not determine real identity of any of the
cars, and a 1964 Corvette was crushed when the owner popped the tag for restoration, and had no supporting documentation...

So, again I repeat. Do not remove your vin tags. Until someone can show me specific Title and Section of the Federal code which refutes all of these people.

(a) Whoever buys, receives, possesses, or obtains control of, with intent to sell or otherwise dispose of, a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, knowing that an identification number for such motor vehicle or part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

107 A.L.R.5th 567

SUMMARY: Illegally removing or altering a vehicle identification number (VIN) or selling or possessing a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN constitutes a crime in most states. In order to impose liability, state courts normally require a culpable mental state on the part of the defendant in altering or removing a VIN or in possessing a vehicle or vehicle part with an altered or removed VIN. Some states, however, do not require any culpable mental state on the part of the defendant when selling a vehicle or vehicle part with a removed or altered VIN.

For example, in State v. Smith, 972 S.W.2d 476, 107 A.L.R.5th 791 (Mo. Ct. App. W.D. 1998), the defendant sold a vehicle that was subsequently found to have an altered VIN. The defendant claimed the state was required to establish that he had knowledge of the VIN alteration at the time the sale occurred. The court held that while knowledge was required for possessing a vehicle with an altered VIN, the statute's plain language indicated that knowledge was not required when selling a vehicle with an altered VIN.

Okay now READ THIS!!

Is stamping or removing a VIN on an engine block or other part illegal?

It might be, according to this case:

The court held in Greenway v. State, 8 Md. App. 194, 259 A.2d 89 (1969), that there was sufficient evidence to sustain an automobile repairman's conviction, under Md. Ann. Code art. 66 1/2, § 73 (1957), of possessing a vehicle knowing the engine VIN had been defaced for the purpose of concealing or misrepresenting the identity of the vehicle. While the evidence clearly showed that the repairman had in his possession a vehicle containing an engine which he admitted had been removed from another vehicle and whose VIN had been covered by a bead of weld, it was not shown that he ever had direct contact with the engine, either in purchasing it, receiving it after it was purchased, or removing it from one car and installing it in the other. Nevertheless, the court recognized that the repairman admitted he knew the provisions of the statute and therefore the court held that he deliberately "shut his eyes" so he would not have knowledge that the VIN on the engine in his possession had been defaced. The court noted that the engine was easily accessible to him while in his possession and it was immaterial, in the face of the statute, that engine numbers may not be required on certificates of title and that the statute does not provide specifically that failure to make a reasonable inspection means knowledge. He thus acted at his peril, concluded the court, and could be deemed as having "knowledge" of the fact that the engine VIN was defaced.

So any part that has the VIN number on it, cannot be replaced, altered or modified to remove that number from the vehicle... If it's stamped on the frame, you can't remove/alter that number from the vehicle, if it's stamped on the Cab, you cannot replace your cab, etc.

So I would say you have a "custom" truck now, one of the VIN's has been removed. So ya need to re-title that truck. Read up on your vehicle code, however it's worded, a "tag" or a "number" it's iffy at best!!

So NO you cannot restamp your VIN!

 

[OilPatch197]

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techarticles/mump_051200_ford_mustang_laws_codes/index.html

Interesting read on this subject.

 

[AllanD]

isnt that technicly illegal?

Technically? Who cares?

Two summers ago we (my brother a friend and myself)
took four trucks disassembled them ALL shuffled the parts
added in another truck worth of junkyard parts and produced
three running F-series trucks.

Two of the three had their vin tags mounted with double stick emblem mounting tape. The third had the vin tag with ONE Rivet
RESTING where the Vin tag was supposed to go.

all three had their VIN's "authenticated" bt a State Police Lt.
On the one when the vin loose he said "better fasten that down"
but he still signed the papers.

the point was that all three Vehcles were F-250's
ONE started life as a 1993 Lightning (the cab anyway)
Note: Yes, we had a 1993 Lightning WITH the proper documents
and we dismantled it to assemble an F-250.... with a 6cyl engine.

the newest of the three was titled as a 1991.
this was 2007, and as the trooper said, nobody CARES
about a 16year old truck.

The fact that on two of the three we took the time to locate,
clean and clearcoat the the frame VIN, but he less interested
in crawling under the truck to look than he would have been
interested in being sodomized by a syphilitic Rhinocerous
(his words not mine)

SFAIK nobody bothers recording Engine VIN numbers
and infact the original factory installed engine in my
truck had a number that bore no relationship whatsoever
to the VIN number of the chassis.

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[Will]

Engine numbers is old stuff.

I would pound it in the frame like Allan said. I've done it. It's technically illegal, but maybe not. You know it's not stolen. The VIN number part was cut off. My first trip through the DMV taught me a lot. I have fought them ever since. I print the relevant code pages and bring them with me. Never listen to them. I have brought in boats that I built, trailers that I built, vehicles with iffy titles and I converted a schoolbus to an RV and had the title changed to reflect the new body type. The system covers the obvious, but is isn't designed to exclude the unusual. Your truck probably doesn't belong on the street. But find the legal path and take care of business.

 

[wrecking-crew]

my 66 f-100 has no vin #s anywhere....but im putting the body on a different frame.

 

[OilPatch197]

It's technically illegal, but maybe not. You know it's not stolen.

Yes, YOU know it's not stolen, but if you were a buyer would you trust the seller that they "know" it's not stolen? That is like buying a truck that has a "lost" title. Technically Illegal is just that, Illegal, just like driving 56mph in a 55 is illegal, it is still illegal and a law abiding citizen obeys just laws.

Your truck probably doesn't belong on the street. But find the legal path and take care of business.

Agreed. I don't condone people breaking the law, tampering with I.D. marks of a vehicle for street use is wrong. Only would I ever consider modifying would be for off-road, for one the street there is a REASON these numbers are there, to prevent evil people from misrepresenting the vehicle, it's just as Illegal as removing emission control systems/airbags and seat belts from a street used vehicle. I would NOT stamp on those numbers onto the frame or to "try" to FAKE the originals, they are GONE, you should leave it in this condition and try not the "hide" the fact that the numbers are gone.

Really tho, I would register the vehicle in another state that has none of those silly inspections. That would be the most ethical way to get this truck licensed. "faking" Vin plates/stickers/stamps is like throwing away your license plates and making fake plates.

You can Get Pulled Over For A Homemade License Plate, unless you have a letter of authorization and proof of application for replacement of plates are you allowed to do that, if you don't have those with you when stopped, you can be fined, your car impounded, and towed.

I don't want to see that happen to you.

 

[tpking]

send me title i can register it here without it even being looked at then ill send the signed title back to you and all you will have to do is register it in your name

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Okay now READ THIS!!


So any part that has the VIN number on it, cannot be replaced, altered or modified to remove that number from the vehicle... If it's stamped on the frame, you can't remove/alter that number from the vehicle, if it's stamped on the Cab, you cannot replace your cab, etc.

So I would say you have a "custom" truck now, one of the VIN's has been removed. So ya need to re-title that truck. Read up on your vehicle code, however it's worded, a "tag" or a "number" it's iffy at best!!

So NO you cannot restamp your VIN!

Engine blocks and frames are replacable parts... insurance paid to reframe a 2008 Trailblazer at the dealership my brother used to work at so it must not be that illegal. It was a brand new frame from GM...

 

[94STXRanger]

Oil patch, does your big post mean you can not swap engines, cabs, beds, axles, and anything else into a car or truck? Because the VINs dont match? how does that work?

 

[AllanD]

There are people in the world who I would recommend against beating them to death (slowly) with a length of chain (takes about a week to do it right) because doing that is too KIND for their type.

About half of those people work at various state DMV offices.

Most of the rest think up those rediculous rules and regulations.

Here in PA you have to provide a pencil tracing of the VIN tag when
first transfering and registering a vehicle, have you ever tried tracing
the VIN tag on a first gen Taurus? it isn't possible with the windshield
or dash installed.

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