• Welcome Visitor! Please take a few seconds and Register for our forum. Even if you don't want to post, you can still 'Like' and react to posts.

R.I.P. to my 302 - What should I do now?


dagoof

New Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
1990
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
302
Transmission
Automatic
here....let me get my little bit in here too:D

is it possible that you have a reverse rotation water pump turning forward or vice-versa?

i've seen this happen before and the symptoms are a lot like what you've described
I wondered the same thing, cuz it sure seems like it would make sense, but I'm sure that its not the case.

Its all standard rotation right now. I'm using an Elderbrock 8848 Water pump and a March Performance 30165 Pully kit. Both standard rotation. I used to have a mustang pulley setup with reverse rotation water pump.

Either way, this is a problem that has been going on for a while. I've changed the water pump twice in the midst of my adventures with this truck, and besides, you can feel that the radiator is hot at the top end and cool at the bottom.
 


dagoof

New Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
1990
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
302
Transmission
Automatic
Well, it looks like I'm going to have some free time this weekend, so I think I'll tear this thing down and do a little autopsy.
 

feellnfroggy

Well-Known Member
U.S. Military - Veteran
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
4,454
Reaction score
28
Points
48
Age
43
Location
Knoxville, TN
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
4.0L
Transmission
Manual
Are you suggesting that there may have been an air bubble in the coolant system. Wouldn't it have worked it's way out by now? I've been driving this truck off and on for over a year since we last filled the cooling system after doing the head gaskets. Also, it had the burping problem before that, and before I did any work to the truck.
I thought I read you said that it has been fluctuation that whole time, I probably misread. But being there already or created through vaporlock Air in the lines is still a plausible explanation when looking for a cause.
 

baddad457

Active Member
TRS Banner 2010-2011
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
18
Points
38
Location
Opelousas La.
Vehicle Year
1989
Make / Model
Ranger
Transmission
Manual
Well, my Ranger started running funny on Saturday, and by about the time I got it home, I got huge clouds of sweet smelling white smoke coming out of the exhaust.

You can see where this is headed. I parked it, let it cool down, and then when I tried it, it wouldn't even turn over, so I pulled a spark plug and sure enough, the cylinder was full of anti-freeze. I pulled the rest of the plugs and it looks like I have coolant in about 6 of the 8 cylinders. I'm not sure what went wrong, or how I could have lost BOTH head gaskets at the same time. I won't know until I tear down the engine, but this engine has been a problem child from the beginning..
You mentioned nothing about your intake manifold. It's possible if you're running an aluminum one that it's corroded a passage into the forward intake runners. Check that out when you pull the engine apart.
 

dagoof

New Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
1990
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
302
Transmission
Automatic
You mentioned nothing about your intake manifold. It's possible if you're running an aluminum one that it's corroded a passage into the forward intake runners. Check that out when you pull the engine apart.
I do have an aluminum intake, but it's a brand new Air Gap. I don't think it could have corroded that fast, could it?

Also, I had issues before I put the new intake on a couple of years ago.
 

baddad457

Active Member
TRS Banner 2010-2011
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
18
Points
38
Location
Opelousas La.
Vehicle Year
1989
Make / Model
Ranger
Transmission
Manual
I do have an aluminum intake, but it's a brand new Air Gap. I don't think it could have corroded that fast, could it?

Also, I had issues before I put the new intake on a couple of years ago.
I doubt it, unless you flushed the system with something strong enough to corrode it. Could be a cracked block or head too.
 

bobbywalter

TRS Technical Staff
TRS Event Staff
V8 Engine Swap
TRS Technical Advisor
TRS Banner 2012-2015
TRS 20th Anniversary
Ugly Truck of Month
TRS Event Participant
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
23,470
Reaction score
4,668
Points
113
Location
woodhaven mi
Vehicle Year
1988
Make / Model
FORD mostly
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
BIGGER
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
sawzall?
Tire Size
33-44
My credo
it is easier to fix and understand than "her"
here....let me get my little bit in here too:D

is it possible that you have a reverse rotation water pump turning forward or vice-versa?

i've seen this happen before and the symptoms are a lot like what you've described
wrong pump or possible pulley/speed in 1st page....actually had just dealt with the pump issue.

careful disassembly is in order. i know i would be very curious in this situation to prevent it again.

i think baddad has a lead here. i have had gaskets on the intake simply fail, likely to contamination or improper torque, that could cause a string of disaster in the right situation...leading to a bent rod broken block etc.

similar has happened to me before when in a rush, i aint perfect:dunno: fawk stuff up and it sucks.
 

bobbywalter

TRS Technical Staff
TRS Event Staff
V8 Engine Swap
TRS Technical Advisor
TRS Banner 2012-2015
TRS 20th Anniversary
Ugly Truck of Month
TRS Event Participant
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
23,470
Reaction score
4,668
Points
113
Location
woodhaven mi
Vehicle Year
1988
Make / Model
FORD mostly
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
BIGGER
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
sawzall?
Tire Size
33-44
My credo
it is easier to fix and understand than "her"
I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just saying because you don't agree with the way his rig was put together, you don't have to start off bashing it, which is what it seemed like you did. Yes we are both from TN and we are friends and we go wheelin and work on stuff often. He actually posted that from my house today while he was over here helping me clean out my garage that he uses regularly. And that's your opinion about EFI, I can line up a lot of carbed cars that will smoke your "EFI" stuff! That's just more crap to mess up! Clean and simple.
I appreciate the patient response, I could see a flame war starting after I posted. But after seeing more of your explanation it makes a little more sense. Yes we were viewing the same thread at the same time. I'm over here spending a day cleaning out the garage and getting into trouble. However we weren't intentionally attempting to gang up on you.

I have to agree with EFI being better, I love EFI motors and avoid carb if I can help it. But for application purposes I don't see that it makes a difference what you choose, Some people can build one better with there available knowledge than the other. I don't think that EFI over carb when hardcore wheeling and in a bind will make a difference as its all in the build. Ive seen many high rpm carb motors that can run with hgh rpm efi motors off road and on.

What I meant by not being his decision was that it was not built by him. My grandfather got his hands on a motor I was working on and I lost that motor too. He knows what hes doing, but he didn't know what I was doing. For the OP its difficult to walk into someone else s project and know what is going on til it shyts.

Back to the main issues, I don't think your motor OP was randomly burping air into the Radiator, I'm thinking you were experiencing regular vapor lock due to the motor having never been burped properly to begin with. This is my guess based on your description of the problem. But then again you never know, there could be a pinhole leak above the fluid levels of the radiator. Which the vapor lock issues explain the overheating which is what caused you to crack the head or catch a gasket leak. If you buy another motor you will end up doing the rebuild process anyways if your smart or you can just rebuild this one. A second motor maybe just to make it drivable while you work on this one, but I would go ahead and rebuild this one. As far as the c-4 goes, You can make it work with gears, but a c-5 is just a c-4 with overdrive. The c-6 is what we plan to put in hatman's truck with the 289. Supposedly alot beefier and stronger. he needs gears too.

you guys being from tenn and it appeared equally disliking efi in a all around application, let alone off road is what surprised me....i did not think you were ganging up on me or something like that. i have wheeled tenn, kentucky, folkks from those areas and the experiences there generally proved out some simple and excellent effective solutions. i learned a great deal down there and is actually where i learned solid carb setups for off camber....even so quite surprising to find your view anti efi.

we are much closer then you think, as i know good formulas to go either way. efi or carb when being built with specific goals.. when being application specific...its just that. so point of view i think is where the disparity is here.

this thread is for a general use application. so efi here is superior...so we will have to agree to disagree about it as opine...but, i never pushed efi. this is a situation to just let er be....the 4bbl works good just needs a healthy set of pistons pulling air through it. i would leave the c4 and go to 33's even so i can keep it that much more simple. (personally of course it would not go that way, say he left it in my yard for free, it would be efi and aod the 1st day i had to dedicate to it.)


a driver is a driver to me. when i say this that means i can hop in the fugger and it will fearlessly take my happy ass from coast to coast and canada to the gulf, high and low as efficiently as possible. you cant do this with a carb and gasoline.....well let me qualify that....average joe, which is most modders/swappers and sas guys here, that like to wheel.... in the beginning..... just are not gonna pull it off and beat the efi vehicle. especially wheeling one week at 9 k feet and the next in jhonson valley.

realistically tuning a carb for varied performance and altitudes and specifically for off camber high altitude performance on the fly, is not an overly easy task....and when the engine isnt showroom clean or at least reasonably clean its a high risk to even pull the air cleaner if not necessary.

now its opinion, but i think your being intellectually dishonest with yourself if you think otherwise...or are simply limited in range of experience.

from what i picked up here you guys go from a more dedicated approach and trailering a rig is preferred to do some of the funner stuff. there is a point where dual purpose is not feasible...i can appreciate that ... and is actually more reasonable from mid level trails on up. and i certainly agree you can build to terrain no problem and get away with any induction.

the complications of a high rpm build in my wheelin range dont work at all though, and i never know where i am going next. i dont even know where the original poster is from or generally runs the vehicle so i can not push one over the other.





the c5 is not an overdrive transmission....just a c4 with lockup. technically though i can see it as an overdrive....i do consider it a overdrive if you have a custom setup built with higher/looser stall and still retaing lockup. good luck pricing that one out though. but it would slow rpm 15 percent or so. stock its 4-10 percent.


regardless i have been watchin you bastards in tn and kentucky and look forward to wheelin at an event or two eventually with rbv's over various artists groups....though really its always various artists isnt it...???

so you can school my yankee detroit blue belly ass when the time comes good and proper.:thefinger::thefinger::thefinger:




I do intend to button up the engine bay if I keep working on this project. I need to trim out all of the extra wiring, make up some inner fenders to seal up the engine bay, and I want to build a front skid plate that would tie everything together.

my truck doesnt even have wheel wells:dunno: but they are a good idea for some situations.
 

feellnfroggy

Well-Known Member
U.S. Military - Veteran
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
4,454
Reaction score
28
Points
48
Age
43
Location
Knoxville, TN
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
4.0L
Transmission
Manual
Actually I never trailered anything. I break it and call in to work the next day, LOL. I am also NOT anti efi. I would run EFI over carb any day of the week. More power less money, But in this particular case, I was just pointin out that EFi isnt necessarily the answer. I think were all on the same page now.
 

mike732

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
57
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
Camden, TN
Vehicle Year
2000
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
302
Transmission
Automatic
I'm from Tennessee, and I'm a EFI guy 100% I'm even trying to put it on my 427 side oiler but thats another story. I build prob 50 carbs a year for circle track guys and offroaders as well, but given all things equal, day in and day out EFI will win in average HP, driveability, reliability and just general Coolty... Just my humble opinion...Mike
 

dagoof

New Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
1990
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
302
Transmission
Automatic
Well, I performed the autopsy today, and the head gasket was definitely blown. I've also got a piston that is coming apart.

:icon_surprised::bawling::icon_surprised::temper:

I'll post up some pictures tomorrow.
 
Last edited:

bobbywalter

TRS Technical Staff
TRS Event Staff
V8 Engine Swap
TRS Technical Advisor
TRS Banner 2012-2015
TRS 20th Anniversary
Ugly Truck of Month
TRS Event Participant
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
23,470
Reaction score
4,668
Points
113
Location
woodhaven mi
Vehicle Year
1988
Make / Model
FORD mostly
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
BIGGER
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
sawzall?
Tire Size
33-44
My credo
it is easier to fix and understand than "her"
block looks good? head ok too on the surface???no obvious cracks??

may get away clean just freshening er up:icon_thumby:
 

baddad457

Active Member
TRS Banner 2010-2011
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
18
Points
38
Location
Opelousas La.
Vehicle Year
1989
Make / Model
Ranger
Transmission
Manual
I would take the motor apart and carefully inspect the block for cracks. Water in a cylinder will blow the gasket and break a piston (bend rods too) I had one 302 do this same thing, it turned out it had a small 1/2" crack midway in the #4 cylinder that was only found by pressurizing the motor on a stand and seeing the water drip from the bottom, with the oil pan off. It had blown one set, then I replaced the gaskets, then it had a milkshake in the oilpan that refused to go away. That was when I pulled the engine and put it on the engine stand and pressure tested it with the oilpan off.
 

bigmike

New Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
sevierville, Tenn
Vehicle Year
1989
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
2.9
Transmission
Automatic
If your carb setup works well I would just stick with the carb, I like EFI alot but I think for the initial cost (money and time) of putting it all together a carb would be the cheaper and simpler set up. When I do my 302 swap (soon!) I think I am going to a carb...from EFI :(
On the overheating issue It might have something cloging the cooling system and I would highly recomend using fel-pro gaskets when you go to put it back together
 

dagoof

New Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
1990
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
302
Transmission
Automatic
I would take the motor apart and carefully inspect the block for cracks. Water in a cylinder will blow the gasket and break a piston (bend rods too) I had one 302 do this same thing, it turned out it had a small 1/2" crack midway in the #4 cylinder that was only found by pressurizing the motor on a stand and seeing the water drip from the bottom, with the oil pan off. It had blown one set, then I replaced the gaskets, then it had a milkshake in the oilpan that refused to go away. That was when I pulled the engine and put it on the engine stand and pressure tested it with the oilpan off.
I agree. Something must be wrong with the block I think. I've never had milkshake oil pan, but I keep getting pressure in the coolant system and this is the second set of head gaskets.
 

Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad

Member & Vendor Upgrades

For a small yearly donation, you can support this forum and receive a 'Supporting Member' banner, or become a 'Supporting Vendor' and promote your products here. Click the banner to find out how.

Truck of The Month


Mudtruggy
May Truck of The Month

Recently Featured

Want to see your truck here? Share your photos and details in the forum.

Follow TRS On Instagram

TRS Events

25th Anniversary Sponsors

Check Out The TRS Store


Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad

Sponsored Ad


Amazon Deals

Top