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James86

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1999,
2012,
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Ford,
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3.0 Flex Fuel, 2.5L, 3.3 Flex Fuel
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My credo
WHY DO I KEEP BUYING DODGES?!?!?
Alright, I have a 1999 3.0 FFV ranger. About a month ago, it started throwing either the "Bank 1 Lean," Bank 2 Lean" or both codes. Driveability hasn't really changed but I took it in anyways to have it looked at. I suspected a vacuum leak, but everyone shouted me down and said the O2 sensors were bad (I have 113K miles on it, so wouldn't be unheard of.) I took it to the shop and described it and they figured vacuum also. Anyways, they run vacuum tests on it (passed) as well as fuel system tests (also passed.) They checked the O2 sensors ans said both were bad and replaced them. I paid for the O2 sensors and to have the vehicle checked and got it back. The next morning I run to the next town (about 20 or so miles) and as I'm leaving the store there, CEL pops back on. I Use my scan tool to see "Bank 2 lean" is back. I clear the code and after anout 2 hours, "Bank 1 Lean" and Bank 2 Lean" are both back, exactly as before. No change in driveability, and I was going a constant speed when it came on. I call the shop and they work me in to see what they might have missed. It's been there since wed and when I stopped by about 1:30 this afternoon, they still have no answers. So.... what the hell?

1.) I checked the PCV and it's fine

2.) I checked myself the old fashioned way for leaks with carb cleaner - no change in idle

3.) When I floor it, there's plenty of power and no hesitation whatsoever fuel delivery seems fine to me

4.) They had already tested fuel and checked for vacuum leaks (it was on my bill and so know they charged me for it already so I don't know what they're doing now)

Any ideas? Do I let them keep dicking with my truck or say screw it and take it back and drive it as is? Functionally, its running great as ever.
 


fourwheelford

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washington state
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Did they replace all 3? Did they unhook the battery for awhile to reset the perameters? I don't know if that helps when changing o2 sensors but its worth a try unhook the negative for a bit and see if that helps.
 

James86

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55381, Minnesota
Vehicle Year
1999,
2012,
Make / Model
Ford,
Ford,
Engine Size
3.0 Flex Fuel, 2.5L, 3.3 Flex Fuel
Transmission
Automatic
My credo
WHY DO I KEEP BUYING DODGES?!?!?
They called me this evening at 5pm and still had no clue why its tripping the two banks. Other than the shock when I said I use ethanol, they didnt have any idea. They said they'd have it back to me by non tomorrow regardless since I work Friday night. I think either bad IAT sensor or defective O2 sensors. Nothing came up about the catalytic converter's sensor.

I know I've heard of some vehicle hating winter blends of fuel, and in winter ethanol goes form a 85% ethanol 15% gas blend to about 70% ethanol and 30% blend. I also know my truck hates running on mixtures of between 20%-70% ethanol because the power just isn't there like it is with ethanol, and it gets horrible mileage because the computer is trying to figure out timing and how much to inject based on a variable octane rating. If i run just gas or just E85, it runs fine.
 

James86

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Location
55381, Minnesota
Vehicle Year
1999,
2012,
Make / Model
Ford,
Ford,
Engine Size
3.0 Flex Fuel, 2.5L, 3.3 Flex Fuel
Transmission
Automatic
My credo
WHY DO I KEEP BUYING DODGES?!?!?
Well got a call this mornign and they're conclusion is.......

My exhaust. Although I've had no problems for almost 2 years with my 2.5" catback and flowmaster 40, they believe my engine is breathing too well. The O2 sensors they replacd were in fact bad, and they even tested IAT sensor, MAF sensor, Alcohol sensor, etc. Only conclusion the could draw was the exhaust is not stock. AKA, they dunno what is wrong. I can only figure that switching back to gas (not likely with these prices) or the blend going back up to normal levels will solve the issue. I know my last two tanks were from the same station so this tank I might just fill up at the other E85 station I go to.


So there ya go, changing my exhaust did make it breath better but apparently the sensors can't keep up with what a difference it made:icon_twisted:


Not sure how to interpret that one....
 

Big Jim M

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Now This is fynny!

:icon_rofl:
Well got a call this mornign and they're conclusion is.......

My exhaust. Although I've had no problems for almost 2 years with my 2.5" catback and flowmaster 40, they believe my engine is breathing too well. The O2 sensors they replacd were in fact bad, and they even tested IAT sensor, MAF sensor, Alcohol sensor, etc. Only conclusion the could draw was the exhaust is not stock. AKA, they dunno what is wrong. I can only figure that switching back to gas (not likely with these prices) or the blend going back up to normal levels will solve the issue. I know my last two tanks were from the same station so this tank I might just fill up at the other E85 station I go to.


So there ya go, changing my exhaust did make it breath better but apparently the sensors can't keep up with what a difference it made:icon_twisted:


Not sure how to interpret that one....
:icon_rofl: This is so much bullspit that I cannot believe it to be the truth!! I'd never take anything BACK to them guys never, never!

I'm just sitting here in my chair laughing my ass off!!

Beyond this I am speechless.. I'll be back when I can get my wits about me. :icon_rofl:

Simply unbelieveable! :icon_rofl:

Big JIm:hottubfun::wub:
 

Bob Ayers

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Ranger
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Are you running a K&N air filter? If so, you have a contaminated MAF sensor. You need to clean the MAF sensor, and reset the PCM (remove the negative battery cable and touch it to the positive terminal for a few seconds, or remove the negative battery cable with your headlights on.)
 

BlackBII

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2WD / 4WD
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33
Do you have the same problem when running on Gasoline?

You need to flow more E85 to get the same Air/Fuel ratio...maybe your fuel pressure aint up to snuff to be running E85.

I'm curious...do you happen to know how the vehicle knows it's running on E85??
 
Last edited:

Bob Ayers

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Do you have the same problem when running on Gasoline?

You need to flow more E85 to get the same Air/Fuel ratio...maybe your fuel pressure aint up to snuff to be running E85.

I'm curious...how does the vehicle know it's running on E85??
The 1999 FFV has an alcohol sensor in front of the fuel filter.
 

James86

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Location
55381, Minnesota
Vehicle Year
1999,
2012,
Make / Model
Ford,
Ford,
Engine Size
3.0 Flex Fuel, 2.5L, 3.3 Flex Fuel
Transmission
Automatic
My credo
WHY DO I KEEP BUYING DODGES?!?!?
1.) I am running a NORMAL airbox setup with a FRAM toughgard filter. I gave up on cone filters because I hated oiling them, they got dirty fast and they are exposed to the elements.

2.) I've been running on E85 the better part of two years and have never had the CEL light come on for lean conditions. Only thing thsts changed is my last two tanks were from the local Cenex co-op instead of the usual VE85 brand I get at Freedom so maybe the winter blends are different.

3.) I cleaned the MAF and nothing changed.

4.) Alcohol sensor tested fine as did all other sensors.

I find it all a bit amusing myself. I'm going to pick it up here in a bit to let you know what else they have to say...
 
Last edited:

BlackBII

Ranger Custom
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4.0 V6
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
5
Tire Size
33

Bob Ayers

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1999
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Ranger
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Automatic
1.) I am running a NORMAL airbox setup with a FRAM toughgard filter. I gave up on cone filters because I hated oiling them, they got dirty fast and they are exposed to the elements.

2.) I cleaned the MAF and nothing changed.

3.) Alcohol sensor tested fine as did all other sensors.

I find it all a bit amusing myself. I'm going to pick it up here in a bit to let you know what else they have to say...

Did you reset the PCM like I described?
 

Rearanger

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they believe my engine is breathing too well. Only conclusion the could draw was the exhaust is not stock.
Only way that could happen is if the O2 sensors could not adjust for the "better flowing" exhaust. Your non-stock exhaust must be an engineering wonder to release that much back pressure that the engine runs lean and needs larger injectors to compensate. BS is being used to replace knowledge or simply the honest, "we don't have a clue."
 

Big Jim M

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Howdy RR

Only way that could happen is if the O2 sensors could not adjust for the "better flowing" exhaust. Your non-stock exhaust must be an engineering wonder to release that much back pressure that the engine runs lean and needs larger injectors to compensate. BS is being used to replace knowledge or simply the honest, "we don't have a clue."
Think about it from OUTSIDE the box...Ok?
There is a certain amount of exhaust.. No matter what else, it ALL must get OUT of the system, right? So no matter what size pipes are on there the exhaust is exiting and the 02's are "feeling" of it... right? Them 02's aren't FLOW meters! :icon_rofl: They are LOOKING for OX.. Wheather or not they find it doesn't depend on the size of the pipes or the amount of flow in them pipes..:icon_rofl:

It's still so funny that I can't quite sit here without grinning!:icon_rofl:
Big JIm:hottubfun::wub:
 

James86

New Member
Joined
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Messages
889
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Location
55381, Minnesota
Vehicle Year
1999,
2012,
Make / Model
Ford,
Ford,
Engine Size
3.0 Flex Fuel, 2.5L, 3.3 Flex Fuel
Transmission
Automatic
My credo
WHY DO I KEEP BUYING DODGES?!?!?
Well, their official prognosis on the slip:

"Computer Diagnosis - -Check Engine Light

On scan computer for diag codes & perform pinpoint test that are nec for properdiag. Found p0171 and P0174, both upstream O2 sensor lean codes. Preform [yes spelled like that] system diagnose checking for vacuum leaks, testing fuel pressure, replacing PCV valce, install test Mass Air Flow sensors found all system working well, did find performance exhaust causing O2 sensor to read lean at idle."


So after all that is said and done, they creditted me for all the work ($322.31) so I guess I can get a LOT of free oil changes....


Intake....


Exhaust...



The intake is perfectly sound. and I only used 2.5" exhaust because thats what came out of the cat's in the first place. At the flange after the cats (where a cat back bolts to) it was 2.5" reduced to a 2" back, so I figured it was logical to have the same size the full length. The shop that did the exhaust has one of the best reputations around for exhaust and the pipes were all mandrel bent I think (the method that leaves them smoothly courved without all the crinkles I've seen on other pipes). There was a noticeable difference in the upper RPMS when I had it done and it has not caused any issues for the two years it's been this way. I know they disconnected the battery because my clock on the radio needed to be reset. Mechanically, this has been the best vehicle I've ever owned, so I'm thinking I might have had bad gas that has water in it as I usually don't buy gas at that station. I filled it up today since when i got it back the "check gauge" light was on and I got 19 gallons into it, so we'll see if the light comes back on. In the end, I still walked away with two new O2 sensors and a new PCV valve and a bunch of shop credit...
 

James86

New Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
889
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
55381, Minnesota
Vehicle Year
1999,
2012,
Make / Model
Ford,
Ford,
Engine Size
3.0 Flex Fuel, 2.5L, 3.3 Flex Fuel
Transmission
Automatic
My credo
WHY DO I KEEP BUYING DODGES?!?!?
...Your non-stock exhaust must be an engineering wonder to release that much back pressure that the engine runs lean and needs larger injectors to compensate...
Science + 3.0 + ??? = MAGIC!!!!!!:icon_rofl:
 

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