Soul crushed and seeking advice on starting problems

[TacoBelleGirl]

TFI was part of the older systems, the 91 4.0 doesn’t use it, but there is a module that may or may not be affecting things. I’m not exactly sure where it’s located on the Ranger, it’s been awhile since I’ve looked at it because it’s far more reliable than the old TFI. When I converted my Choptop to essentially a 91 4.0, I just found a handy spot on the core support and bolted it in. I suppose anything electronic could fail after over 30 years though…

The ignition module is mounted right next to the battery on the front side of the engine bay (not sure if it would be correct to call it the bumper support or not?). I already tried replacing mine because I saw RA had them for a much better deal than anywhere else and figured I would snatch it up on the off chance it was a pricing error, plus they seem to becoming hard to obtain new.

Didn't change the behavior. I actually think I may have gotten the last two in RockAuto's inventory.. first one they shipped didn't arrive so I had them ship another one. The first did eventually end up showing up and I decided to just pay the $50 to keep it rather than shipping it back. So I have 2 new ones and the OEM one. Only new one I see for sale now is from AutoZone for $240 so I am pretty happy having spent about $100 to get 2 of them.

Actually in general I have been holding onto my OEM parts that I pull off, so I still have the original crank sensor, ignition module, and a couple of other odds and ends.

Despite what it says by my name (there was a big forum reset in 07), I’ve been here since about 02.

Whoa, you've been on this forum for about as long as I have been roaming this earth.

 

[SenorNoob]

Whoa, you've been on this forum for about as long as I have been roaming this earth.

Way to make even me feel old. (I'm 36)

 

[TacoBelleGirl]

Way to make even me feel old. (I'm 36)

36 years young!

Sorry if that came out the wrong way. I honestly think that it's really awesome this community has had members for that long

 

[rubydist]

Way to make even me feel old. (I'm 36)

LOL I have kids older than that...

 

[gaz]

@TacoBelleGirl
Looks like either your starter isn't fully, properly bedded, secure (correctly torqued down) or the cog isn't flinging far enough onto the flywheel teeth.

Everything that affects the starter alignment is critical:
• when installing the flywheel, clutch, bell housing I have everything absolutely spotless to insure proper alignment.
• what torque did you use on the flywheel bolts?
• I thoroughly clean, then re-tap the threads on the bolt bosses, clean and chase all hardware if reused.
1) With the starter off, clean the bolt boss threads, then run a fresh sharp tap in. Then with fully cleaned chased bolts, run them in by hand, see how they feel and where they bottom out (by hand!). If they are bottoming out too soon, may just need a washer (or 2).
2) may be worth a moment to clean out that grime in your bell housing, just a preventative measure
3) install the starter with the wires disconnected to see if that straightens anything up. Those cables can be in the way or pull (exert force against proper alignment) the starter cattiwompO$, even a skosche is NO BUENO.
4) I have had to learn to install the starter by itself, fully torqued, then assess the installation before moving on. Then hook up power to verify the observations.

NOTE, if you can evade a complete re-due, you've made the correction, ether by patience, happenstance or focused work ethics

 

[SenorNoob]

I just noticed that there is more of the teeth visible in that straight on picture of the manual starter. Maybe the sprocket is sightly different and the rebuilder used the wrong one?

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I just noticed that there is more of the teeth visible in that straight on picture of the manual starter. Maybe the sprocket is sightly different and the rebuilder used the wrong one?

I would say its a slightly different angle. The clutch drive sits back from the end of the nose about 3". Doesnt take much to hide the teeth.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

The ignition module is mounted right next to the battery on the front side of the engine bay (not sure if it would be correct to call it the bumper support or not?). I already tried replacing mine because I saw RA had them for a much better deal than anywhere else and figured I would snatch it up on the off chance it was a pricing error, plus they seem to becoming hard to obtain new.

Didn't change the behavior. I actually think I may have gotten the last two in RockAuto's inventory.. first one they shipped didn't arrive so I had them ship another one. The first did eventually end up showing up and I decided to just pay the $50 to keep it rather than shipping it back. So I have 2 new ones and the OEM one. Only new one I see for sale now is from AutoZone for $240 so I am pretty happy having spent about $100 to get 2 of them.

Actually in general I have been holding onto my OEM parts that I pull off, so I still have the original crank sensor, ignition module, and a couple of other odds and ends.



Whoa, you've been on this forum for about as long as I have been roaming this earth.

Yeah, especially these days I find myself holding onto some stock parts especially if they haven’t fully failed yet. Parts quality has gone to trash when you can’t even trust a new part off the shelf.

Thanks for making me feel old, lol. It’s ok though, I was on my first vehicle at that point and I was after information on how to put a tach in it (don’t ask me why Ford decided that the automatics all needed a tach but not the manual transmission ones). That search for help landed me here and I never really left, lol.

 

[rumblecloud]

I have bins/totes of all the parts I have taken off my 94. I throw nothing out. Not sure how you spell "sheeny" or what it means. nut I am one.

 

[ShhhhhDougsHere]

@TacoBelleGirl
I saw this thread for the 1st time today.

I'm just an novice around here.
I just wanted to say welcome to the family and you're in good hands with the people that are helping you.

Good luck with your truck and I hope in the near future you'll be able to enjoy and have fun with it.

 

[Eddo Rogue]

You are getting some great and patient advice here that makes me proud to be a member of this forum, and grateful for the times these guys got me out of jams, or at least saved me time and hassle.

I can offer some general advice as far as your situation, and my experience in similar ones.

Usually its not just the thing thats bad, but something attached to it going bad was what caused it, and will bust up the new one too (like your flywheel). Bad can be premature or regular wear, breakage, or malfunction. Often times I gotta change all kinds of crap beyond what intended....usually when doing brakes/steering/suspension. In foresight I always grab extra gaskets changing engine parts. It can become a can of worms requiring a boundary to be set, or just a neck bone attached to skull bone thing.

New parts are junk. Long gone are the days of aftermarket being an upgrade. if you changed the part and nothing happened, most likely your new part is defective out of the box. Took me 3 tries to get a good alternator once. Even reputable names like Bosch and Moog are questionable now. Try to stick to OEM but even then, be weary. And dont change any original parts unless absolutely necessary, not preventative.

Sometimes its something silly. Did you check things like the fuel safety cutoff switch? Maybe a loose wire under the dash? Mice chew on something? The latter happened to me recently.

Ive done some guerilla wrenching parked in public/roadside...Luckily Ranger transmissions aren't that heavy. The transfer case is pretty light too. One man job weights.

Thats all I got for now. Cheers.

 

[SenorNoob]

...Luckily Ranger transmissions aren't that heavy. The transfer case is pretty light too. One man job weights...

Remind me not to arm wrestle you guys. I tried to pickup my transfer case from under the truck. NOT happening. It was all me and my uncle together could do to get it up there. Now I could pack around outside the truck, but once I was laying on my back.

 

[TacoBelleGirl]

Man I got distracted with other stuff longer than I thought!
I got caught up in the holiday, work, and a new relationship and haven't worked on the truck at all since.
I hope everyone had a great new years!!

@TacoBelleGirl
Looks like either your starter isn't fully, properly bedded, secure (correctly torqued down) or the cog isn't flinging far enough onto the flywheel teeth.

Everything that affects the starter alignment is critical:
• when installing the flywheel, clutch, bell housing I have everything absolutely spotless to insure proper alignment.
• what torque did you use on the flywheel bolts?
• I thoroughly clean, then re-tap the threads on the bolt bosses, clean and chase all hardware if reused.
1) With the starter off, clean the bolt boss threads, then run a fresh sharp tap in. Then with fully cleaned chased bolts, run them in by hand, see how they feel and where they bottom out (by hand!). If they are bottoming out too soon, may just need a washer (or 2).
2) may be worth a moment to clean out that grime in your bell housing, just a preventative measure
3) install the starter with the wires disconnected to see if that straightens anything up. Those cables can be in the way or pull (exert force against proper alignment) the starter cattiwompO$, even a skosche is NO BUENO.
4) I have had to learn to install the starter by itself, fully torqued, then assess the installation before moving on. Then hook up power to verify the observations.

NOTE, if you can evade a complete re-due, you've made the correction, ether by patience, happenstance or focused work ethics

Yeah I cleaned pretty much everything except the bell housing.. But mating surfaces were indeed clean. Any suggestions on how to get the bell housing cleaned out now that it's installed?

For the flywheel bolts if memory serves me correctly I did 65 foot pounds. The charm.li spec says 59 so I wanted to go a bit above that just to play it safe. Used threadlocker on them too. I did realize the starter bolts weren't quite as clean as I had thought so I think cleaning them and the threads on the bell housing is sound advice. Never used a thread tap, is it easy to much up the existing threads on accident?

And yeah after all this I am thinking that assessing properly the installation of a new starter before even giving it power is a good idea. I never even considered that the starter wires might put some force on the starter and effect it's installation I'll give things your go when I put it back together.

I just noticed that there is more of the teeth visible in that straight on picture of the manual starter. Maybe the sprocket is sightly different and the rebuilder used the wrong one?

Indeed I had made a similar observation, but to my eyes my starter teeth stick out the same amount as what I saw seeing in the online pictures.

You are getting some great and patient advice here that makes me proud to be a member of this forum, and grateful for the times these guys got me out of jams, or at least saved me time and hassle.

I can offer some general advice as far as your situation, and my experience in similar ones.

Usually its not just the thing thats bad, but something attached to it going bad was what caused it, and will bust up the new one too (like your flywheel). Bad can be premature or regular wear, breakage, or malfunction. Often times I gotta change all kinds of crap beyond what intended....usually when doing brakes/steering/suspension. In foresight I always grab extra gaskets changing engine parts. It can become a can of worms requiring a boundary to be set, or just a neck bone attached to skull bone thing.

New parts are junk. Long gone are the days of aftermarket being an upgrade. if you changed the part and nothing happened, most likely your new part is defective out of the box. Took me 3 tries to get a good alternator once. Even reputable names like Bosch and Moog are questionable now. Try to stick to OEM but even then, be weary. And dont change any original parts unless absolutely necessary, not preventative.

Sometimes its something silly. Did you check things like the fuel safety cutoff switch? Maybe a loose wire under the dash? Mice chew on something? The latter happened to me recently.

Ive done some guerilla wrenching parked in public/roadside...Luckily Ranger transmissions aren't that heavy. The transfer case is pretty light too. One man job weights.

Thats all I got for now. Cheers.

Remind me not to arm wrestle you guys. I tried to pickup my transfer case from under the truck. NOT happening. It was all me and my uncle together could do to get it up there. Now I could pack around outside the truck, but once I was laying on my back.

I actually was able to lift that transfer case.. I guess that kinda backs up my physical therapist's thought that my bad shoulder is something neurological rather than physically with it. Good news, bad news? Don't know lol.

And yeah I have been learning with this rig just how crappy some replacement parts are. I changed out the temperature sending unit because mine was reading low and I found a TSB for it.. New one seems to read fine, but the terminal on it was smaller than the original and I had to crushed the connector down a bit with a pair of pliers so it would fit snugly. But that was also a like $5 sending unit so.

I haven't looked at the cutoff switch, but once the rig would start it would never die or anything so it seems unlikely. I do have to check the wiring in the dash though 100%. There's some funky wiring on the truck from my friend. The multi-function switch stopped correctly working (a longggg time ago) and he and his brother wired up switches to the left of the steering wheel for the blinkers and low beams plus ran their own wiring for all the lights. Fuel gauge doesn't work (but that could very well be the sending unit), horn wires seem to be cut because the button never worked and it actually randomly went off a few times till I pulled the fuse.

Also jogged my memory and I am recalling a pattern now of at least 2 or 3 times I have gone to look at the starter I have found the top bolt to be a little loose. So... maybe all of this is related and possibly my fault. Since it's a 4x4 I am usually finding myself having a hard time wrenching on that bolt and the extra threads on the end prevent me from using one of my socket wrenches.

The first flywheel didn't fail first. The starter did. It would crank over briefly and then the bendix would retract and spin freely. So I replaced that starter. I don't recall if those bolts where tight then. The new one worked okay for a week or two before I found the flat spots on the flywheel where it wouldn't crank so I did all the work to change the flywheel and starter motor out. Put a brand new Remy stater in, worked good for a few weeks, then it started to sound violent so I panicked and pulled the started to pick up another one from Orielly's. I think I recall the top bolt not being as tight as the bottom one once again.

Starting to think this is all my fault and just bad starter installation. Facepalming right now.