Ok, need MASTER level advice or VERY creative ideas.

[American1990]

yeah, I have checked everything really hard, and look and felt for ANY movement along the fire wall, brackets, or anything....nothing moves out of the ordinary.

I got a question about the M5OD, i know the slave cylinders changed over the years but that because they wants a new type of fitting and master cylinder right? So if I had a 96 trans and had all the hydraulic parts and clutch parts for a 92, it should still work right? I don't think they changed anything in the bell housing that would make the early hydraulic system ineffective with that trans right? I am just wondering about that. Though, I am using my Fm146 trans with the combination from a 92 clutch kit and slave with 89 master, same setup I was using before this random event.

Also, I do not think I have tried the Plastic slave yet in combination with the early master cylinder, so I plan to try that and take out the hydraulic system again and bench bled it. I am 100% sure of how to properly bled the system, but the only way i know for the slave after bench bleeding is to open the bleeder and let 1.5-2 reservoir flow through it then close the bleeder.

I'll tell you what....I may not know how to work on any other vehicle but i damn sure can tell you ANYTHING you need to know about my truck lol....I know that S.O.B. like the back of my hand. I have even figured out a technique to put a transmission in with just one person and a jack.

 

[Andy D]

The 4.0 uses a 10" clutch. Unless the MC and slave are matched to the pressure plate springs , they may not provide the oomph needed to push against the spring. I would use only parts that listed for use.

When I put the transmission back in the Rat, I didnt use a jack. I used a milk crate and a bunch of 2x4 blocks.

 

[American1990]

So... was working on it this morning in the rain, and I just got down pulling everything then putt8ign the Slave it and doing a few other things....put the trans back in and decided to connect the slave lien right there instead of waiting till everything was out back it (good thing) and....somehow I didn't notice that the line for my master the wrong size for the plastic slave cylinder...so I cant even use the plastic slave cylinder and all the other ones I have are aluminum. And I really don't want to buy the line and slave for the plastic slave when i am not sure it it will even work. Also, When they switch to the new line it says they changed the bolting location of the master to behind the firewall to a bracket near the pedal... so then i will have to figure all that out... this is just turning into one huge nightmare.

The only other thing I can think of is to remove the backing plate... and shim the slave forward again and see if I can get it to disengage like that, but my gut telling me it pointless.

 

[cocoasranger]

For what it's worth: I had a similiar lack of travel and to test things I put a small nut with the points filed down into the slave cup, and then let the rod set on it. This gave enough extra travel to verify that the clutch disengaged properly. It did, so I took the rod that actuates the slave and welded an extra 1/4" onto it about at the middle of the shaft for the same effect. Redneck engineering, but it worked.

 

[American1990]

I manually with my hands and with the help of the pedal pushed the master cylinder rob as far as it would possibly go, and still the clutch would not disconnect.

Ok, I'm just going to buy the 93-94 Hydraulic system pre-built and bled (Whole Hydraulic system reservoir, master, line, slave cylinder) for 100.00 bucks off of RockAuto, Now, the clutch i have is for a 92, did the pressure for the pressure plates change for the 4.0 over the years? or stay the same? if it changed i will go ahead and buy a clutch kit for the 93-94 year.

That years still bolts to the fire wall and has the plastic slave. And I will know 100% that all the parts are meant to work together and everything already pre-bled and ready to go... I was also going to get one of there shims that was .089 for EXTRA measures... So, what do you guys think?

 

[feellnfroggy]

As far as the clutch, could you have been given the wrong new parts? IE pressure plate? or is it possible to put washers behind the slave to push it out farther........I didnt read changes to your truck, could the bell housing on your trans be a hare longer than original equipment( i asknot knowing if you did an engine swap or something,,,,)

 

[American1990]

As far as the clutch, could you have been given the wrong new parts? IE pressure plate? or is it possible to put washers behind the slave to push it out farther........I didnt read changes to your truck, could the bell housing on your trans be a hare longer than original equipment( i asknot knowing if you did an engine swap or something,,,,)

It is possible i was given wrong parts, but I have also used over 10 different combination of parts from slave cylinders, master cylinders, and ect.. I did a 4.0 swap and used the Fm146 in combination with 1989 master and 1992 slave and clutch kit, and it drove fine for over a year, then this popped up out of no where. The Fm146 and M5OD I have have the same length of shaft that stick out of the bell housing. Though i have tried both trans with the exact same setup I was using before all this went to poop. Though, the clutch i have has been laying around for over a year, and i cant 100% remember what year 4.0 it was for, I think 92 also, but I do know it a 4.0 clutch. Also, I don't remember if I got the 89 or 92 master from o Reilly, and I have 5 slave cylinder and I can NOT tell you what year what lol. I also have already tried shimming the slave forward a good 1/8-1/4 but still no effect.

But I said screw it, I ordered a Pre-bled and put together 1993-4 hydraulic system (Reservoir, master, line, slave, and throwout bearing), 1994 clutch and pressure plate. ALSO, I got a 0.089 Shim for the fly wheel for extra measures. With this i will know I have all the right parts to work together, and everything already bled correctly and ready to go.

 

[cocoasranger]

I don't know if this makes any difference, but I'll throw it out there for you to decide.
When I replaced my A4LD auto trans with an M5OD R-1 and 4.0l clutch assembly, I measured the distance from the front of the bell housing to the tip of the input shaft on each trans and discovered that while the auto trans input rested in a pilot bearing pressed into the crankshaft flange, the input on the Mazda trans was too short to reach the flange.
Perhaps the 146 trans is the same and the pilot is not long enough to be supported in the pilot bearing. What I discovered was that the 4.0l flywheel has a steel collar which presses into it's center and the pilot bearing presses into it. If you have the collar and pilot bearing installed on your flywheel disregard this post; if you don't this could be your problem.

 

[adsm08]

Check two things before taking it all apart again.

1) Remove the inspection plug and watch while someone pushes on the clutch pedal. See how far it is moving.

If it does not move very far then move on to #2.

2) Watch the master cylinder and the firewall around it as the clutch is applied and released. You might not be getting release because the firewall is damaged and allowing the master to move before it begins hydraulic application.

 

[American1990]

Check two things before taking it all apart again.

1) Remove the inspection plug and watch while someone pushes on the clutch pedal. See how far it is moving.

If it does not move very far then move on to #2.

2) Watch the master cylinder and the firewall around it as the clutch is applied and released. You might not be getting release because the firewall is damaged and allowing the master to move before it begins hydraulic application.

I have a video on one of my post that shoes how much travel I'm getting from my slave cylinder, I have also done a VERY thorough inspection of the firewall and under dash (even have my dash removed right now to check EVERYTHING) There is ZERO movement in the fire wall and under dash, nothing is acting abnormal. I even manually depress the master as far as i could get it to go and still could not get the clutch to disengage.

 

[zekew64]

What I'm thinking, in all honesty, is that you have the same problem I had when I replaced my 2.3L.

When I got everything together, I could not, for the life of me, get my slave cylinder to release the clutch. However, I found out that somehow, the springs on the pressure plate (around the outer edge; there are 3) were broken (2 out of 3). Also, I set up a scientific-style experiment with the old equipment I still had (I replaced EVERYTHING--the master cylinder, line, slave cylinder, throwout bearing, clutch disc, pressure plate). What I found out is that with the way the tech has changed, even for the older designs (a 2011 replacement slave cylinder for a 1992 slave cylinder), that sometimes there is not enough tolerance in the bores of things like a master cylinder or a slave cylinder. What I had happened was that the new, aluminum slave cylinder piston was somehow seized, and would not move. In the end, I ended up re-using my old slave cylinder, and haven't had any problems since.

What I'm trying to say is that you probably have a stuck slave cylinder or bad internals in the transmission, such as bad sychros. I'd have the transmission taken out and bench-tested at a transmission shop. Also, something else is this: For the slave cylinder, you'll want to make sure that you have the modern fitting installed. This looks like a smooth-bore fitting, instead of the older fitting that uses an R-clip. The newer smooth-bore fitting also uses an outer clip that you can remove if you have to remove the line for any reason; it's a style of line that doesn't allow for air to enter if it is removed, making bleeding after reattachment very minimal, if at all. Lastly, make sure the line itself isn't kinked or bent out of whack at all. This can actually cause you to not get the proper pressure to the slave, thus, the clutch won't engage/disengage.

Note: If you have a newer fitting, and want to replace the older fitting with the new, all you have to do is use a punch and remove the roller pin. Once you have the pin removed, you should be able to swap them out. Also, make sure that you have the proper O-rings installed; otherwise, you'll not get a good seal, and you'll leak fluid.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I had an ear on the master that was cracked, allowing the master to move. That took a while to figure out as I was working by myself.

Richard

 

[American1990]

What I'm thinking, in all honesty, is that you have the same problem I had when I replaced my 2.3L.

When I got everything together, I could not, for the life of me, get my slave cylinder to release the clutch. However, I found out that somehow, the springs on the pressure plate (around the outer edge; there are 3) were broken (2 out of 3). Also, I set up a scientific-style experiment with the old equipment I still had (I replaced EVERYTHING--the master cylinder, line, slave cylinder, throwout bearing, clutch disc, pressure plate). What I found out is that with the way the tech has changed, even for the older designs (a 2011 replacement slave cylinder for a 1992 slave cylinder), that sometimes there is not enough tolerance in the bores of things like a master cylinder or a slave cylinder. What I had happened was that the new, aluminum slave cylinder piston was somehow seized, and would not move. In the end, I ended up re-using my old slave cylinder, and haven't had any problems since.

What I'm trying to say is that you probably have a stuck slave cylinder or bad internals in the transmission, such as bad sychros. I'd have the transmission taken out and bench-tested at a transmission shop. Also, something else is this: For the slave cylinder, you'll want to make sure that you have the modern fitting installed. This looks like a smooth-bore fitting, instead of the older fitting that uses an R-clip. The newer smooth-bore fitting also uses an outer clip that you can remove if you have to remove the line for any reason; it's a style of line that doesn't allow for air to enter if it is removed, making bleeding after reattachment very minimal, if at all. Lastly, make sure the line itself isn't kinked or bent out of whack at all. This can actually cause you to not get the proper pressure to the slave, thus, the clutch won't engage/disengage.

Note: If you have a newer fitting, and want to replace the older fitting with the new, all you have to do is use a punch and remove the roller pin. Once you have the pin removed, you should be able to swap them out. Also, make sure that you have the proper O-rings installed; otherwise, you'll not get a good seal, and you'll leak fluid.

Yeah possible, though i have used 5 different slave cylinder and 3 different transmission... and everything thing else. though, there could be miss parts that don't like playing with the others ones, I.E. different year parts.

 

[American1990]

I had an ear on the master that was cracked, allowing the master to move. That took a while to figure out as I was working by myself.

Richard

Everyone said that, and I have checked the fire wall for any movement or gap, none. Also have the dash removed right now to check all brackets and ect... nothing broken or acting wrong.

 

[cocoasranger]

A couple possibilities: Check the friction disc if you have it out. Sometimes they separate which makes them thicker thus reducing effective clutch travel. Have a clutch expert check the pressure plate for release arm extension, etc. I did not see where you said whether your pilot bushing was mounted in the flywheel. If it's in the crank flange you will have trouble since the M5OD R-1 shaft does not reach as far as the crank flange.
If all else fails you can get a racing clutch master from Summit which will give you as much fluid displacement (travel) as you could need; just have to mate it to the Ranger hydraulic line. Good luck.