TDI Ranger Build

[bobbywalter]

Or you could just get a low hour reefer take out for under 1000.00 add a turbo, and see high 30's easy. they are di all mechanical and plentiful. One of my friends has the Yanmar 2.1 and I have the Kubota 2.2. His in a 2001 4x4 s/c and see's high 30's all the time. He has a build over on 4bt.com.

well, i would like to see some 0-60 times with those. if it pulls a 10 or less 60 mph then i will likely go that way. is the glut of non cali compliant reefers over or are they still easy to find at good prices??

35-4500 would put you at about 3-350rwhp on a 6.5 w/ ATT or HX40II and a built FTB modded 4911 pump; I can't see that getting that much less mpg with plenty of TQ and HP to motivate down the hwy...

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i wish not to derail this thread, and i hope this discussion enhances it....

i have secondary fueling motivations, which is important and you guys likely dont realize that.. it drives my willingness to dick around with easy to get di setups and mechanical injection.


drag, that engine setup you describe in a regular supercab ranger would be killer i agree.


it possibly would exceed 25 mpg hiway i would wager consistantly 23-25 at 70 mph even...stock tires and corrected gearing.

reliable over the long term...no way. anything over 250 hp at the wheels in those easy to get 90's engine has proven a tiresome waste of time from what i have seen. i run allot of hard miles, way above average.

the later and current engines on the other hand are definitely a huge improvement but costs are still out of hand for living with the restrictions of idi in both economy and reliable power/cold start. i was working a deal to get a brand new one sans injection and manifolds for 3800, but i was injured back in feb and all my money saved for the truck updating is going to living expenses. cranking up one of the units i have currently past 225-250 is not what i will do....when travelling across the country to go to work getting there is important. n/a its been nothing but reliable...and slower then smoke off shit.

the good with them is ability to burn different fuels.

for my bronco 2 i can freshen a later 1.9 and mechanically inject it with cranked up injectors and burn multi fuels as well. i am sure greengeeker knows that is my intent for the trouble to do that.

burning crap fuels in commonrails is a no-no, so i am limited there.


if i ever decide i want 400 hp at the wheels, i will mechanically inject a duramax, the prices for those has come down to my range...right now i know where a sub 100k unit is for 3500 with all of the wiring and would drop right in my ranger....

the ranger needs a big engine, the b2 can get by with the 4 banger.

 

[dragogt]

Agreed I have no wish to derail it either.

well, i would like to see some 0-60 times with those. if it pulls a 10 or less 60 mph then i will likely go that way. is the glut of non cali compliant reefers over or are they still easy to find at good prices??

dethmachinefab on pbb has built a couple of bikes using refer engines..

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-chit-chat/888501-turbo-diesel-bike-dyno-run.html




i wish not to derail this thread, and i hope this discussion enhances it....

i have secondary fueling motivations, which is important and you guys likely dont realize that.. it drives my willingness to dick around with easy to get di setups and mechanical injection.

Care to go into more detail?

drag, that engine setup you describe in a regular supercab ranger would be killer i agree.


it possibly would exceed 25 mpg hiway i would wager consistantly 23-25 at 70 mph even...stock tires and corrected gearing.

reliable over the long term...no way. anything over 250 hp at the wheels in those easy to get 90's engine has proven a tiresome waste of time from what i have seen. i run allot of hard miles, way above average.

I don't man these people (http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/forumdisplay.php?229-6-5-Performance) have been pushing the 6.2/5 envelope for years now, even Heath has some cams coming out for them but its still spendy..


the later and current engines on the other hand are definitely a huge improvement but costs are still out of hand for living with the restrictions of idi in both economy and reliable power/cold start. i was working a deal to get a brand new one sans injection and manifolds for 3800, but i was injured back in feb and all my money saved for the truck updating is going to living expenses. cranking up one of the units i have currently past 225-250 is not what i will do....when travelling across the country to go to work getting there is important. n/a its been nothing but reliable...and slower then smoke off shit.

the good with them is ability to burn different fuels.

for my bronco 2 i can freshen a later 1.9 and mechanically inject it with cranked up injectors and burn multi fuels as well. i am sure greengeeker knows that is my intent for the trouble to do that.

burning crap fuels in commonrails is a no-no, so i am limited there.


if i ever decide i want 400 hp at the wheels, i will mechanically inject a duramax, the prices for those has come down to my range...right now i know where a sub 100k unit is for 3500 with all of the wiring and would drop right in my ranger....

the ranger needs a big engine, the b2 can get by with the 4 banger.

You have a link for the mechanically injected duramax?

 

[chucky2]

Not my thread, but getting off topic...

 

[greengeeker]

Not my thread, but getting off topic...

Thanks Chucky. Yes, getting quite off topic.

Bobby, I will be honest with you and let you know that any vw TDI (mechanical or electronically-controlled injection....doesn't matter) is not going to live a long life running anything other than commercially produced diesel or biodiesel. We've seen the results countless times on tdiclub where an owner thought they were doing everything right while running grease (WVO) and the final outcome of their experiment was a trashed motor. I'm not going to be able to technically summarize the entire issue in one single post but the gist of it is this: You have to be dead accurate and consistent with EVERYTHING: filtration, dewatering, purge cycles, acidity, paraffins, oil temp....etc. If you get ANY of these wrong, failures can show up in as little as 20-40k miles in the form of gunked up injection pumps, build up on valves, build up on the injectors, worn injectors, streaming injectors, stuck rings, contaminated oil...you name it.

I just don't want you going into this thinking it is a low-cost, bullet proof solution that will get you 200k miles of commuting.

 

[bobbywalter]

i think the fuel type discussion is relevant.

the whole point of the swap for me is the ability to run alternative fuels and enhancements. looking at the architecture of the head and combustion chamber of the 1.9 along with the piston crown configuration it looks like it will take oils well.

i agree that bio based fuels is a piss waste of life in small batch garage runs. i dont use it. i tried but its a huge pia for people that work 10-14 hrs a day. just collecting it is a trainwreck of issues if you can even source quantities worth using.

what i do use is trans fluids when at all possible, or other light hydraulic oils. a fair share of regular motoroils gets in the mix of course, but the last ten years i have had very cost effective results to say the least.

running cng in the mix is my next goal. the lil 1.9 with cng would really be a good setup in the b2. cng is a bitch to compress at home still cost effectively but i hope to make that happen some time. likely i will stay with propane for availabilty and ease of use for now.

now, staying with the 1.9 efi setup and running regular diesel and propane with the right tuning could produce some serious economy/usable power benefits that a guy with a little truck could switch on and make out when the situation presented itself. but i want the worst case scenario reliability of the mechanical setup.

for the most part i want the cng/propane simply to maximize burn and economy at cruise not just simply power. when running a diesel waste trans oil combo with the right injector setup its really cost effective overall for guys that run 30-50 thousand miles per year.

i have not had the time to explore the tdi world so i am ignorant of the issues, though i trust your input 100% for all i know a 30 percent mix like i run might blow the pins out of one of the cute little bastards in 10 k miles...

 

[greengeeker]

i think the fuel type discussion is relevant.
what i do use is trans fluids when at all possible, or other light hydraulic oils. a fair share of regular motoroils gets in the mix of course, but the last ten years i have had very cost effective results to say the least.
i have not had the time to explore the tdi world so i am ignorant of the issues, though i trust your input 100% for all i know a 30 percent mix like i run might blow the pins out of one of the cute little bastards in 10 k miles...

I agree it is relevant discussing fuels in tdi's.

What is your filtering process with these fluids?

 

[superds]

Bobby, have you thought about where a cng/propane tank would fit on a BII, especially one that still has a fuel tank for diesel? Would you cut the 23 gallon OE tank in half and put a cylinder behind it?

 

[bobbywalter]

well i have been gone a month and just got home...due to some medical issues. originally or earlier on rather... i had access to a big centrifuge one of my customers owned...he had a machine/tool and die shop.

i need to make a new primary pump for my little centrifuges, but i have other stuff more pressing to do immediately.

for the most part i have only been filtering to 3 micron, say one or two house filters at 20-10 micron, then a tsc 10 mic and a final polish non bypass 3 mic standard pump filter.

i use a regular transfer pump like this to do that...

very quick and "usually" quite effective....BUUUT....i have had failures before. wierd shit you would not expect, but thats the way shit goes.


not sure if i have pics of any of it online.

my general mix is 7 gallons diesel to 3 gallons filtered waste oil.

i drill oil and gas wells, and depending of where/what i am doing i have access to some awesome super light hyd oil at times. my psd loves that stuff and sometimes gets better economy...the idi n/a engine in my ranger usually loses a point or more from max tune...but it works out well. its really old though....its well over 400k


i think the little tdi would accept that level of a mix, i am sure it would lower life from normal.....say if the tdi was expected to do 300k with good compression...may only get 225-250 with a great running engine.

many will say thats unacceptable, but i can live with it.

burning this stuff does increase maintenance for my idi, i have to clean injectors if i run heavy mix or 100 percent used oil for any period of time...say two tanks or so.


filtration is key, the longer you can filter it and with heat preferably, the better.

you will always hear people talk shit about alternative fuels not being designed to burn etc, and thats true to some extent but its not absolute. hell, the point of compression ignition was to burn rapeseed and peanut oils....and not overly refined and engineered rapeseed and peanut oils at that. now the modern efi/commonrail diesels ARE DESIGNED with a certain fuel in mind....and i agree not candidates for this type of mixture. even the injectors are works of precision to a art.

where i am going is what many are reprtedly doing, and cranking up the injector pressures on the poppet idi setups, your tailering the system to work with the alternative fuel and it slows the coking rates to where your not screwing around cleaning injectors as often, or at least, thats what i hope happens. after i get my chores done in the next week or so i will hopefully get my pop tester completed and start burning 100 percent used oil and see where it goes from there.


even with a 30-35 mpg 1.9 ranger, if you could cut your fuel bill in half again, it would be way worth the investment and effort of swap if there were a simple increased operating cost reduction. of course this fuel method is not for everybody....

hell not for most people....but if you can swap a diesel in, you can run alternative fuels.

 

[bobbywalter]

Bobby, have you thought about where a cng/propane tank would fit on a BII, especially one that still has a fuel tank for diesel? Would you cut the 23 gallon OE tank in half and put a cylinder behind it?

i have 351's old chop top....

in the case of this swap scenario with the 1.9, if you did not have a doubler theres room for a small tank underneath.

in this case the cng would be an enhancment, not a primary fuel. likely it would be fitted in the gunwhale in the "bed" of the b2 and easy to change....one on each side possibly. just fill one when i get home.

not sure if it would be worth the hassel or not. but if you drove 200 miles a day to work, and this swap let you go from 13 - 15 mpg to 25-28 mpg with just diesel, and the cng bumped you to 33-35.....at 5 bux a gallon for unleaded and 6.20 for diesel....and maybe 2 dollars a day on top of that for the cng......things look different.....

even now at 3.46g and 3.90di a gal its worth the effort to me...

 

[superds]

Ok, so basically underneath. How safe is that? I've read several propane conversions (I realize you're talking about a supplementary fuel) and looked at information from companies who sell conversions and they mostly steer people away from putting compressed fuel tanks under the vehicle.

 

[bobbywalter]

if you used a single oem small tank its fine...they are well built and are located under the vehicles from the oem,s they are like 1800-2800 psi tanks too and have different components then mild steel like kevlar and some carbon fiber type of vessels.


propane is in liquid form while in the tank....cng stays a gas....highly compressed gas at that.

bomb? sure. more dangerous then a regular gas tank?


i dont think so.

 

[superds]

Ok, one more question, then I'm done jacking this thread. Where would one find a suitable oem tank for use in a BII for propane (I'm more interested in it as a primary fuel, not supplementary like you are looking for as I weigh alternative fuel options for my BII).

BTW, greengeeker, excellent build.

 

[bobbywalter]

http://cngtanksonline.com/used-cng-tanks-for-sale/



they are dated, so when buying ebay you need to know what your buying, a 2 year tank wont get 300 bux from me....4 years i see from vics go 1800.


if i stay on a yard i deal with i get first crack if i pay a littlle extra....get a 4.6 setup from a vic for 1500 for all of it....even engine sometimes....but all the rails etc regardless.







once he gets 5-6 k miles on this build and has a good baseline, we will see what goes.

 

[superds]

Thanks for the link. Those tanks are pricey. For me, that price would be a deterent against CNG/Propane (due to all the other added expenses to go along with it). I don't think I'd ever drive enough miles to recoup that if I did a propane conversion. I'll probably keep my eye on potential diesel engines for my BII.

 

[bobbywalter]

well, its reletive to shopping...a old vic setup for the tdi might be under 1200 total and be good to 2018.


you would want a 2003-05 factory vic setup. 1000 or so and it wont take long to recoup that.

provided you can do it yourself