Vulcan vrs Durateck 3.0

[cbxer55]

too bad you didn't take any pics to post here in the Ranger Station

Didn't look like anything special at all. Black standard cab with bad paint. Even the rims and tires were nothing special. Not enough back tire for the power, IMHO. My lowly 3.0 with no muffler, MAC intake and JET chip, spins my 255/60-15 Cooper Cobra GTs easily enough. That 302 sounded like it would shred his tires easily enough.

 

[1990RangerinSK]

3.0l OHV Vulcan was designed in 1980's, first used in 1986
3.0l DOHC Duratec was designed in the 1990's first used in 1996

There is no relationship between the two engines except the displacement
3.0l Vulcan is cast iron heads and block
3.0l Duratec is aluminum heads and block

They use different bell housings so transmissions are not interchangeable

Not correct (on the transmissions).

Both engines were used in the Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable (the Vulcan from 1986, the Duratec from 1996).

Vulcan:

1990-1993: All got the AX4S Transaxle
1994-2000: Most got the AX4S, but a random number did get the AX4N
2000 and later: Most got the AX4N

Duratec:

It appears that *all* Duratec engines got the AX4N transaxle.

Info here:
AX4S: https://www.ford-taurus.org/taurusinfo/Engine/Trans.php#ax4s
AX4N: https://www.ford-taurus.org/taurusinfo/Engine/Trans.php#ax4n
Duratec Engine: https://www.ford-taurus.org/taurusinfo/Engine/index.php#duratec1 ** The Duratec engine was changed through the years, as was the Vulcan. scroll down that page to find more information.

Since the OP's truck is a 2001, and I'm assuming it has the Vulcan, it falls in with the 2000 and up note above.

 

[RonD]

AX4S and N are transmission models, like M5OD-R1 or 4R44E, each has a bell housing that only fits certain engines, inside each Model is the same but that doesn't mean it will bolt to any engine

Ford Bellhousing list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_bellhousing_patterns#Vulcan_V6_pattern

Vulcan V6 bolt pattern and Duratec V6 pattern are different

So AX4N transmission from a Taurus doesn't mean it will bolt to either engine, it will only fit one

Same for RWD M5OD-R1 or 4R44E they will have engine specific bellhousing, so same model transmission from a 2.3l Ranger won't bolt to 3.0l or 4.0l Ranger engine
And 3.0l trans won't bolt to 4.0l or 2.3l engine

 

[1990RangerinSK]

AX4S and N are transmission models, like M5OD-R1 or 4R44E, each has a bell housing that only fits certain engines, inside each Model is the same but that doesn't mean it will bolt to any engine

Ford Bellhousing list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_bellhousing_patterns#Vulcan_V6_pattern

Vulcan V6 bolt pattern and Duratec V6 pattern are different

So AX4N transmission from a Taurus doesn't mean it will bolt to either engine, it will only fit one

Same for RWD M5OD-R1 or 4R44E they will have engine specific bellhousing, so same model transmission from a 2.3l Ranger won't bolt to 3.0l or 4.0l Ranger engine
And 3.0l trans won't bolt to 4.0l or 2.3l engine

You COMPLETELY ignored what I posted. As I said above, Ford used BOTH transaxles on the Vulcan. My source doesn't indicate whether or not the bell housing was changed. It DOES say that the transaxle that was used on the Duratec was also used on the Vulcan.

 

[1990RangerinSK]

AX4S and N are transmission models, like M5OD-R1 or 4R44E, each has a bell housing that only fits certain engines, inside each Model is the same but that doesn't mean it will bolt to any engine

Ford Bellhousing list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_bellhousing_patterns#Vulcan_V6_pattern

Vulcan V6 bolt pattern and Duratec V6 pattern are different

So AX4N transmission from a Taurus doesn't mean it will bolt to either engine, it will only fit one

Same for RWD M5OD-R1 or 4R44E they will have engine specific bellhousing, so same model transmission from a 2.3l Ranger won't bolt to 3.0l or 4.0l Ranger engine
And 3.0l trans won't bolt to 4.0l or 2.3l engine

1) DON'T talk down to me, I KNOW full well that the AX4N and AX4S are transaxles (I have one of them in my Taurus, after all!).
2) Since I own a Taurus currently, and have owned three other Taurus/Sables over the years, I've probably done more research on them, their engines, and their transaxles, than ANYBODY on this forum. That doesn't make me an expert, but it *does* make me a reliable source of information on their engines and transaxles (and if I don't know the answer, I know where to find it).

Now, as I said above, Ford used BOTH transaxles on the Vulcan engine. My source (noted above) does not indicate that they changed the bellhousing, so I would guess that they didn't (but they might have).

By the way, Wikipedia has been known to be wrong (you cite Wikipedia as a source for the bellhousing pattern for the Vulcan engine). I can cite a few examples where Wikipedia may or may not be correct (Dodge Colt (Grandma had a 1981 that was the older body style, but supposedly they were redesigned for the 1981 model year), Ford Ranger (1989 to 1993 is a Gen2, but wikipedia says it's a Gen1), Ford F-Series (Dad had a 1970 that had the body and interior that didn't come out until 1973)), and I'm sure there are other errors. It's a good source of information, but I wouldn't count it as gospel.

 

[RonD]

Wasn't trying to talk down to you, many people assume transmission models are interchangeable between engine sizes and types

In this case the Ford bellhousing list is correct, trans from a Vulcan V6 won't bolt to Duratec V6 and visa versa

 

[1990RangerinSK]

Wasn't trying to talk down to you, many people assume transmission models are interchangeable between engine sizes and types

In this case the Ford bellhousing list is correct, trans from a Vulcan V6 won't bolt to Duratec V6 and visa versa

So... are you calling me a liar? Because the source I referenced above DOES say that the AX4N, which was generally used with the Duratec, was also used with the Vulcan. Somebody here needs to get their <censored> together. That somebody is either you, me, or my source. Regardless, the simple fact is that transmissions ARE interchangeable between engines, especially the AX4S/AX4N and Vulcan/Duratec. There are four possible combinations: AX4S/Vulcan, AX4N/Vulcan, AX4S/Duratec (not done to my knowledge) and AX4N/Duratec.

Do I have to go over to the Ford Taurus forum and ask for VIN numbers to prove that it can (and WAS) be done? Or will you FINALLY sit there in your corner, sucking on your foot (which you have managed to put in your mouth)?.

Read what I posted above again. You'll note that in one of my posts I *do* note that my source says nothing about changing the bellhousing (it's an unknown, as far as I'm concerned).

Interestingly enough, Your link notes that the SHO V8 engine in theory uses the Vulcan's pattern. In the years when that engine was used (1996-1999), the Vulcan normally used the AX4S, while the SHO V8 used the AX4N. So, somehow, three DIFFERENT engines can mate to the SAME TRANSAXLE, yet you claim it's impossible. I hope you enjoy the taste of toejam.

To the OP: From the little bit of research I've done, I'd suggest that you *could*, conceivably, put a Duratec engine in your Ranger. HOWEVER, there are some variables that you'll need to take into account, like whether or not you can mate to the existing transmission. An easier swap, since RonD's link above notes that it uses the Vulcan's bell housing pattern, would be the SHO V8. You can find information about that engine (made by Yamaha) on the link I posted above.

 

[fastpakr]

The 3.0 Vulcan has the same bolt pattern as the 3.0/3.2 Yamaha V6 used in the SHO Taurus. It's not the same as the Duratec V6 (which shares a pattern with the Yamaha V8). Even in a taurus you'd have to swap to the transmission from the correct engine if you are switching engine types.
As Ron said, the AX4N and AX4S are available in more than one pattern.

 

[PetroleumJunkie412]

The 3.0 Vulcan has the same bolt pattern as the 3.0/3.2 Yamaha V6 used in the SHO Taurus. It's not the same as the Duratec V6 (which shares a pattern with the Yamaha V8). Even in a taurus you'd have to swap to the transmission from the correct engine if you are switching engine types.
As Ron said, the AX4N and AX4S are available in more than one pattern.

So, if I'm reading all of these posts correctly, you're telling him to put a 2.9 in it??











Sorry. Had to do something. I hate tension on the forum.

I NEED AN ADULT!

 

[Dirtman]

That dude needs a hug...

 

[Ranger850]

@RonD, @1990RangerinSK, @Uncle Gump, @Grumpaw, @adsm08, and anybody else who has info on this matter …

Question for all/any of you:

Out of the AX4N/S trans that will fit a 3.0, which one was used in the Lincoln Continental with the DOHC 4.6L V8?
We had a discussion in another thread a while back, about the Conti engine possibly having the "Vulcan" bolt pattern and I am trying to see if it is possible without pulling the Conti Engine and my Trans (3.0 Vulcan) to see if they match. Any knowledge on any of this would help.

I already know that engine is missing a motor mount hole, just doing some research, for curiosity sake

 

[fastpakr]

As far as I know the 4.6 never matched the Vulcan or Duratec patterns. There's some info here:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/part-swapping-logic-ford-fwd-stuff/60068/page1/

Early on in the thread it's suggested that it matches the Duratec V6, but if you keep reading there are photos that demonstrate otherwise.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

3.0 Duratec block

3.0 Vulcan

I don't need a tape measure to see they are different.

 

[adsm08]

After digging around it looks like the top 4 holes may be the same between the two, but the Duratec appears rounder at the bottom, and has a big corner jutting off towards bank 1 that the Vulcan doesn't. It is not easy to find a picture of the rear of a Duratec block, or its bell housing.

 

[adsm08]

As far as I know the 4.6 never matched the Vulcan or Duratec patterns. There's some info here:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/part-swapping-logic-ford-fwd-stuff/60068/page1/

Early on in the thread it's suggested that it matches the Duratec V6, but if you keep reading there are photos that demonstrate otherwise.

One casting of the 4.6 block has a bolt pattern that matches the Duratec 3.0.

The FWD version used in the Lincoln Mk VIII, which is just a fancy V8 Taurus, was mated to an AX4 trans, and used the Duratec pattern. I ran across a thread on a T-bird forum that documented this quite well. It was about trying to 4.6 swap a Fox body T-bird, and the guy was very confused because he had read that the early 4.6s used the SBF pattern, and he had a 4.6 from a Mk 8 that he wanted to use for the DOHC setup, and a 5.0 trans, and they weren't even close to matching, but it also didn't match the later metric pattern from his brother's 4R70 trans.