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Sitting a long time, no spark, wire direct for quick test?


vtonian

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Would it work or hurt anything to run a wire from the battery to the coil and crank it to test fire this 89 Ranger 2.9 4x4 w/manual tranny, like we used to do back in the day? This truck has been sitting for ~10 years so I'm sure there might be lots of other things wrong in the switches and relays, I'd just like to see if the engine runs at all before I put much time and effort into it.

If so, does there need to be a ground wire hooked up to the other side of the coil?

Thanks much.

Matt
 


RonD

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Welcome to TRS :)

You can run a "hot wire" to Coil's "+" terminal, won't hurt anything, but easier to just use a Volt Meter, or test light to see if coil's "+" terminal has 12v when key is ON and while engine is cranking

NO, on the Ground, the "-" terminal on a coil is used to Fire/Spark the coil, so if you ground it it will never spark.
All ignition coils spark when power is CUT, thats what the "points" did in the old days.
Points were the Ground for the coil, hooked to "-" terminal, just easier to use the Ground than the 12volt side to prevent blown fuses or fired wires if there was a short in distributor.
So each time the points OPENED the coils power was CUT(no Ground) and the coil SPARKED, points CLOSED and coil powered up again for next CUT
Cam on distributor shaft opened and closed points to time the spark

With electronic ignitions the same, cut the ground("-") to coil was used, but instead of points that wore out and had to be adjusted they used a sensor to read distributor shaft rotation for spark timing, and a transistor to ground and UNground the coil to spark it at the right time.
Your 1989 used a TFI electronic ignition system
Testing it is here: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/TFI_Diagnostic.shtml

Basics
First thing I would do, if starter motor is cranking engine, is a 50/50 test
Spray gasoline or Starting Fluid(ether) in to the intake and try to start engine

If it starts and dies then spark is OK, and fuel is the problem, or lack of it
If it doesn't start then Spark is the problem, well the first problem to deal with, lol

Once you get engine to start by adding fuel manually(spray it in) then spark is working, at least well enough to deal with fuel issue

Remove distributor cap, crank engine to make sure rotor under the cap is turning.
Use a Volt meter to see if Coil "+" has 12volts(battery voltage) when Key is ON
Test TFI for 12volts, see page above, print out worksheet

When key is turned ON, you should also hear the fuel pump in the gas tank come on, but ONLY for 2 seconds, you can turn the key off and on as much as you want to listen for that HUMMMM of the fuel pump, it is not quiet, you can hear it in the cab, turn down the radio :)

And just in case, 10 year old gasoline is bad, tank needs to be drained for sure, you can remove fuel filter in frame rail under drivers seat area to drain tank, you can "hot wire" inertia switch in cab passenger footwell to turn on the pump to drain tank, put in NEW fuel filter.
Fuel injectors and fuel rail will have varnish inside from the gasoline evaporating and leaving base elements behind, part that doesn't evaporate :)
You may or may not have to remove these to clean them out, you will known when you have spark and fuel pressure but still a no start unless you add fuel manually, 50/50 test, it means all the injectors are clogged
 
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vtonian

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Thank you much, sir. It's a no spark situation, and I didn't want to crank it too much trying to diagnose it and push more of that 10yr old varnish into it.

I greatly appreciate the information and explanations, I think I can launch on this now. I'd read just enough to freak me out about all the relays and switches and electronics, didn't know where to start.

Truck isn't worth much but if it'll fire, it'll be good enough to get some rough work done and maybe be a donor for a better one later on. The more I read about it the more I think I want to retire the old 4Runner and go full Ranger.
 

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When key is turned ON, you should also hear the fuel pump in the gas tank come on, but ONLY for 2 seconds...

...you can "hot wire" inertia switch in cab passenger footwell to turn on the pump to drain tank...
Were you aware that a fuel pump test method was provided from the factory?

If you orient the OBD1 test connector so it appears like a wide house, then the fuel pump test pin is at the bottom right corner. If you turn the key to "Run" and ground that test pin, it will energize the fuel pump relay and (try to) make the fuel pumps run continuously, even without the engine running, even without the computer working (or installed).

This is simple and useful for tracing voltages to the fuel pumps, doing "wiggle tests", and using the pumps to drain the tanks.

This eliminates the difficulty in trying to do testing within the 2-second window when the PCM normally energizes the pumps.

This requires a functioning ignition switch, PCM power relay, and fuel pump relay.
 

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Yes, if you go here: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/OBD_I.shtml

You will see the diagram of the ODB1 connector, located in engine bay
Fuel pump slot is pointed out

If you GROUND that slot the fuel pump will run when key is ON, IF................fuel pump relay is working, and fuel pump fuse/fusible link is not blown.

And this is a good way to test the system, but it does add more layers to getting the fuel pump running if that's your only goal.
 

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More valuable info, gonna be a fun weekend. Thanks again, gents.
 

vtonian

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Ok, it fired when hot wired, yay.

Disconnected fuel line at frame rail filter inlet and it's not pumping fuel.

So, went through the electrical, cleaned and tested ECC and fuel relays, ignition switch and clutch switch, all seem to be working OK now but I'm not getting power at the inertia switch and it's still not pumping. I hear the fuel pump relay clicking after 2 seconds though and the wires power up when the key is on.

Tried jumping 3&4 wires on fuel relay, per this article, http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford/4.9L-5.0L-5.8L/fuel-pump-relay-tests-1, and also jumping fuel test wires on OBD plug and jumping inertia switch, still not pumping.

You mentioned a fuel pump fuse/fusible link. I didn't see a fuel pump fuse in the fuse panel so maybe it has the fusible link. If so, where might I find that lil puppy? Or would a fuse be hiding somewhere besides the fuse panel?

I'd also like to try hotwiring the fuel pump directly, to see if it's even functional, but this was an east coast truck with salty cancer of the under carriage so dropping the tank or unbolting the bed for access is probably going to end up wringing off some bolts and/or worse. Do you happen to know what's the last point of departure from the cab or engine bay, that I could look at to verify the wire coding? Is it the inertia switch? It looks like it is on the wiring diagram: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/EDiagrams/files/Diagrams_ElectronciEngControls2_9_1of3.JPG

Thanks again. Any other thoughts/tips/advice much appreciated.
 

vtonian

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Ahrgh, just realized the fuel pump fuse on this truck would be the one in the engine bay fuse block, which I've already tested.

So power goes directly from that fuse to the inertia switch, then to the fuel pump? Or does anything in the ignition/neutral/clutch switches come in between?
 

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There is a Fuel Pump Relay between the fuse and inertia switch

It might be under the engine fuse box
Drawing here: http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/sdcrowder/2010-11-08_053758_90_ranger_realy.gif

Computer turns on this relay full time after the engine starts, but does turn it on for 2 seconds when key is turned on, but only for 2 seconds
You can cycle key on and off and relay will cycle on and off assuming it and the computer are working

Next to fuel pump relay is the EEC relay, very important relay, when key is turned on this relay will close, and send power to the EEC(computer), the fuel injectors, and the fuel pump relay coil.
EEC relay also has a fuse in the engine fuse box

WOT(wide open throttle) Relay was used for air conditioned models only, so you may or may not have that, it turned off AC compressor when full power from the engine was needed, i.e. WOT
 
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vtonian

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Thanks, RonD. Back to the diags...
 

vtonian

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Got it going, fuel pump, relay, lots of cleaning and Seafoam. Now brakes, clutch, etc, but runs and drives, 4x4 works, good enough to get the firewood in.

Just wanted to say thanks again. Here's where I started, and where I'm at now...



 
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Denisefwd93

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Got it going, fuel pump, relay, lots of cleaning and Seafoam. Now brakes, clutch, etc, but runs and drives, 4x4 works, good enough to get the firewood in.

Just wanted to say thanks again. Here's where I started, and where I'm at now...



But....

:worthless:

congrats on getting it running!:icon_thumby:
 

RonD

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Good work :icon_thumby:

Thanks for posting the update
 

vtonian

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Ok, figgered oot the foto thing. Harder than removing the bed bolts...
 

RonD

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Holy layers of DIRT Batman!!!


Nice clean up....:icon_thumby::icon_thumby::icon_thumby:
 

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