Electric Turbo?

[mikepotts]

not in line i was thinking as a y adding air to what the engine already pulls

if you "Y'd" it in, any boost you MIGHT make would be lost thru the inlet.

 

[Bill G]

except for you can easily calculate the effects of an electric supercharger. the fuel line magnets and tornado...not so much.

im not going to go build one for you because i dont have the money or resources to waste on something like this. but the fact that it appears to be possible, even practical on paper would suggest that its even remotely possible in the "real world".

I didn't ask you to build me one. I just stated that I wished someone would build one. But if you would like, you could design one on paper including what you use to build it with, how you would install it in a Ranger and please feel free to include any technical drawings and mathmatical formulas that you require. Drawing one out on paper wouldn't cost you a cent and I would really like to see your design.

calculating the CFM an engine uses, and the horsepower requirements to produce that CFM is pretty simple math, theres not much room for error to occure. other than the fact that you dont like it because is unconventional, you have no reason to think it wouldnt work if the mathmatics support it.

ive got math to support my arguement that it could work. what have you got to counter my arguement with? "its never been done"? good point. in june of 1969, noone had walked on the surface of the moon....im sure your "its never happened, so it CANT happen" attitute would have convinced NASA to just give up.

I'm not arguing with your math, because yes it is pretty easy to figure out how much CFM you need to obtain a certain horsepower. I also never said that I didn't like it because it's unconventional. I can pretty much say that I like to think outside the box most of the time. All I asked is that someone build one, post the proof that it works and not argue that it looks good on paper, you have to prove it.


And yes NASA did put a man on the moon to prove that it could be done. That and we had to beat those darn Russians there.

 

[anupaum]

Just because something CAN be done doesn't make it practical, either. My truck is proof enough of that!

 

[rangerbum]

I think that it is possible. Pretty tedious work, but possible. The only problems I see is that it would be rather unpredictable. I imagine that it will only be used under wide open throttle, because it would be damn near impossible to get it to react to rev's. And even if you do know the CFM, that is usually calculated in a wide-open environment, not a 2.5 or 3 inch pipe. Just finding a unit that would suit the vehicle would be a P.I.T.A. Plus, if Its ever engaged at too low an RPM, the unit could actually exceed your engine's ability to handle the pressure. If its only engaged at WOT its not worth it because while you may gain 10ponys at WOT, you will lose at least ten everywhere else on the powerband because of the fan blade obstructing the airflow.

I just dont see it as being worth it. An electric t/sc is a good idea in theory, since it would virtually eliminate spool time. But you would have to make it adjust itself threwout the powerband, which would require some sort of throttle position sensor that signals how much wattage to push at the unit, but we're getting in over our heads at that point. (well, I am at least)

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

theres no reason you couldnt run the blower constantly. your talking under 1,000 CFM, that is not going to overboost any v-6 even at idle. if you were really worried about it you could put a BOV in the intake to vent excess boost.

 

[Davis]

uhhh, 1000 cfm atmospheric ought to make above 700 hp...

how would that not overboost a v-6 at idle?

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

since when does a boosted engine run at atmospheric pressure?

as boost goes up, CFM goes down.

 

[turbo cat]

It woulnt work its pointless. Go learn about forced induction some and then think the idea over.

 

[mikepotts]

in theory, the compressor side of a super/turbo doesnt know what is driving the shaft, all it knows is the shaft is turning and forcing it to make boost. that being said, i am like most people, i dont have the time/money to buy the supplys to do the R&D to make this work... im sure companys like Paxton, Vortech, Edelbrock, ect. have the finances and technology in place, which leads me to believe, if this is an idea we, as "normal" people give thought, it would lead me to believe the theory has been thoroughly researched by the people who would stand to make a sizeable profit from it's production.

 

[turbo cat]

its been discussed a thousand times. Even if you could get it to work it would never come anywhere close to the gains/effeciency of a blower or turbo. Do you know how much power it would take to power some kind of DC motor to make it work.

First off the motor woudl weigh 10-20 times what a turbocharger weighs.

Second it will take 5-10 times the amount of room that a turbo takes up

Third it would take additional altenators and a bed full of batterys to power the unit.

A turbocharger can spin up to 70,000+ rpms

Any gain in performance would be out the window with the additional weight the truck will now carry around.

A turbo uses no additional fuel when out of boost...the motor acts like a motor without the turbo meaning your milage will not change

blowers rob a few HP from the crank and rob very little milage due to the parasitic drag

a electronic blower setup would cost you alot of fuel economy considering you would be carrying around another thousand lbs to make it work not t omention the additional altenators creating more drag on the crank

also an electronic blower would not cure "turbo lag" becasue turbo lag is the thing of the past. You can setup a turbocharged application to have very little lag. actually you do want some lag....when the motor isnt spinning hard yet adn you force it with a great deal of pressure it puts more stress on the recipicating assembly. besides with an automatic trans once the turbo spools the turbo dosent have to respool since you dont have lift to shift

plain and simple any kind of electronic forced induction is useless and will never get anywhere

 

[anupaum]

My blower has NO lag. Once I open the throttle I have full boost available. With the bypass valve installed, it purrs along in a vacuum quite nicely when the throttle is closed or partly closed. It's mechanical, reliable and delivers consistent performance all the time . . . as long as it's not leaking air!

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

Do you know how much power it would take to power some kind of DC motor to make it work.

it would take fractionally more than one horsepower to run a 1 horsepower motor. and with that 1 HP motor, you can gain 10 or more.

First off the motor woudl weigh 10-20 times what a turbocharger weighs.

HERE is a 1hp DC motor. it weighs 38lbs....which takes less than 2 HP to move down the 1/4 mile. how much does all your extra exhaust tubing on your tubo weigh? probably not as much as the motor, but my point is that the difference in weight isnt as much as you think.

Second it will take 5-10 times the amount of room that a turbo takes up

with all the additional exhaust and intake plumbing associated with a standard turbo? i dont think so. this could be mounted anywhere, it isnt limited to a spot above the engine (not including remote turbos) and near the exhaust. you could stuff the whole works behind the front bumper if you felt like it.

Third it would take additional altenators and a bed full of batterys to power the unit.

the power comes from the alternator (ONE alternator), not from the battery. no additional batteries would be needed.

A turbocharger can spin up to 70,000+ rpms

and?

A turbo uses no additional fuel when out of boost...the motor acts like a motor without the turbo meaning your milage will not change

blowers rob a few HP from the crank and rob very little milage due to the parasitic drag

a electronic blower setup would cost you alot of fuel economy considering you would be carrying around another thousand lbs to make it work not t omention the additional altenators creating more drag on the crank

1,000lbs worth of batteries is what the ranger EV carries to propel the entire vehicle 60 miles on battery power alone......that is WAY overkill for an electric supercharger application. as i said before, the drag on the belt would equate to slightly more than 1HP (due to alternator inefficiencies)....so you would loose a fractional amount of fuel economy (no more than a belt-driven supercharger running the same boost).

so to recap...weight difference: much less than carying an extra passenger. parasetic drag: easily overcome by boost. space requirements: its versitile, can be placed anywhere. still sounds like an alright deal to me....

 

[Bill G]

HERE is a 1hp DC motor. it weighs 38lbs....which takes less than 2 HP to move down the 1/4 mile. how much does all your extra exhaust tubing on your tubo weigh? probably not as much as the motor, but my point is that the difference in weight isnt as much as you think.

That motor only spins at 1800 rpm. Do you think that would be enough to make 2 psi in order to make the 10 horsepower you claim that it would.

I have a motor here at the shop that is a 110v but make 1hp. I also have a old T3 center section and compressor wheel. If you could design the compressor housing and post it here. I will build the thing to see if it works. I honestly can't see how you could make any boost at 1800 rpm.

That motor also costs more then buying a t3 from Turbo City. By about a $100. Cost wise you are in the hole to start.

The reason a turbo can spin up to 70,000 rpm is that's what is needed to make any type of real boost. But I'm sure you knew that of course.

 

[Bill G]

Wicked_Sludge I have found a water booster pump here on the back shelf. I will post pictures of it when I get home from work. The specs are exactly the same as the one that you posted other then the fact that it is a 115v motor. It even has a commpressor housing. I will bring in my boost gauge to work tomorrow and will post a video of how well it works.

 

[turbo cat]

yes my point is the motor your talking about cant even do the job. A motor that is big enough would weigh alot and would take alot of juice. We had a big discussion about what this would take over at theturboforums.com and i would take one big ass motor with a heavy complex electrical system to make it work. Also tyurbochargers have specially designed housings and compressor wheels to compress air. As the turbocharger spins faster and faster more molecules are thrown to the outside of the blades and compact them agaisnt the squeezed down scroll of the compressor housings. Most industrial units that "look" like compressors are simply just air pushers usually