Truck won't start with spout connected.

[genhawk21]

So the SPOUT and the IDM have a matching signal. That’s good. It sounds like they’re either getting the wrong signal or the base timing is off.
I don’t know how to test the signal. I may be able to find it, but you’re probably going to need a scope to see it.
If the ECM is sending the wrong signal, it’s probably because another sensor is lying to the ECM. The output is only as good as its inputs. Let me do a little research and see what I can find.

Thanks Snoranger. I have a few other questions -- pardon me if they're dumb.

First, is there any way the CPS can be implicated in this? From everything I think I understand that would be no, because a troubled CPS would cause a no-start under all conditions. Also I assume that's what's providing the input that changes the voltage on the SPOUT/IDM tests. I only ask because it looks like it's been replaced fairly recently and the wire routing is... strange. The ground wire has been tampered with but seems to be operational. I did test it and it seemed to be ok. But I could easily be mistaken (not confident in my testing abilities).

Second, is there any reason this truck should have the black ICM? (1993 2.3). It has a grey one. I believe this is the correct one and so did the last mechanic it was at. However, even if it was the wrong ICM I don't think we get a no-start, more like a run-weird. The ICM before this one was also grey and didn't look like it was the original one. Everywhere I go on this truck are signs someone has already gone down the same path with this issue. I have been looking for spare ICMs at the junkyard but they get pulled instantly so I haven't found one yet. I was hoping to at least see one to determine if the stock 93-94 ICM was the black one or the grey one.

Finally, I don't know how to test the base timing myself. I do know that if the SPOUT jumper is disconnected, the truck starts and it continues to run well if the jumper is put back in. If it's left out it runs like poo (stumbles) after it gets warm. I feel like if the base timing was off, it would never run well. But it does run very nicely and has good power (for a 2.3). In fact it seems to run perfectly except for the giant annoyance of having to remove the SPOUT jumper to start it, and then replace it.

 

[Snoranger]

Normally I’d say bring it over and I’ll check it out, but that’s a long drive.

Maybe a CPS could cause it. It’s also possible that a poor ground could effect the CPS signal. I’m not sure... you’re making think of a system I haven’t worked on in almost 20 years.

Black vs grey module: I’ve always changed them for the same color and I don’t have the password for Fords website to see specs or wiring at home. I’ll have to check at work tomorrow.

 

[genhawk21]

Below is the situation with the crank sensor. The timing cover was broken in half and the lower portion rubbing on the balancer. I was able to get it out, but the crank sensor wiring was routed on the outside of the timing cover (which I see now is wrong, it goes inside and behind somehow).

The belt is in good shape but in order to replace the crank sensor, route the wiring correctly, and get a new timing cover back on might as well put a new belt and tensioner for the few $ that costs. Water pump is already new. Thoughts?

Also if anyone has a pic or diagram of where the crank sensor wires should go I would very much appreciate it.

 

[RonD]

Good pictures here of the crank sensor wires going behind rear belt cover: https://www.ranger-forums.com/sohc-...s-135/93-ranger-splash-2-3-timng-belt-144734/

Its a pain to get the connector through the back side, comes out here: https://ww2-secure.justanswer.com/uploads/fordguy4u/2012-05-30_200759_a1.jpg

 

[genhawk21]

Good pictures here of the crank sensor wires going behind rear belt cover: https://www.ranger-forums.com/sohc-...s-135/93-ranger-splash-2-3-timng-belt-144734/

Its a pain to get the connector through the back side, comes out here: https://ww2-secure.justanswer.com/uploads/fordguy4u/2012-05-30_200759_a1.jpg

Thanks Ron, that helps a lot. Looks like it will be a bit of adventure getting it routed correctly. Maybe I can use a fish wire. This also explains why when I looked on my '97 to see where it should be, I couldn't see anything.

Now I need to see if there's a test procedure for the crank sensor. They are pretty expensive and this one is on the new side, so I'd rather not replace if it's just an alignment issue or it's actually working correctly.

 

[RonD]

You can unpin the wires on the connector, take lots of picture for reassembly, then slide just the wires thru the back cover from the sensor end
I haven't done a 2.3l but in other situations like this I have used a solid copper wire(110vAC wire) to get through to the other side and then use it to pull in a pull string or ??
Copper wire will hold a bend but will be flexible enough get around things and strong enough to push on HARD, lol

Put liquid soap on the wires it makes them "slippery" when pulling it in and thru

 

[genhawk21]

You can unpin the wires on the connector, take lots of picture for reassembly, then slide just the wires thru the back cover from the sensor end
I haven't done a 2.3l but in other situations like this I have used a solid copper wire(110vAC wire) to get through to the other side and then use it to pull in a pull string or ??
Copper wire will hold a bend but will be flexible enough get around things and strong enough to push on HARD, lol

Thanks Ron, good idea. Never had much luck with depinning connectors but my last attempt was on a Neon, maybe Ford is easier? I already have such a piece of wire a couple feet long in my drawer. Guess I am turning into an old man...

 

[Jazzer]

When I tested my crank sensor, not knowing the correct procedure, I put the test leads of a multimeter (set on ohms) into the crank sensor leads and waved a socket over the sensor. The ohms fluctuated and that told me it was functioning. There might be a better procedure though.

-Jazzer

 

[genhawk21]

When I tested my crank sensor, not knowing the correct procedure, I put the test leads of a multimeter (set on ohms) into the crank sensor leads and waved a socket over the sensor. The ohms fluctuated and that told me it was functioning. There might be a better procedure though.

-Jazzer

Haha nice Jazzer! It makes sense to me how that would work. I'll give that a whirl. The best I've come up with is to probe the signal leads for AC volts while cranking (according to my diagrams those should be grey and dark blue).

 

[RonD]

The 1994 and earlier 2.3l Rangers use a Hall Effect Crank sensor, so not AC volts, 12vDC on and off signal

VR(variable reluctance) sensors were used in 1995 and up and the cam sensors were VR and ABS and speed sensors are VR
These generate there own AC volts as the tone wheel spins passed them

Hall Effect sensor uses/needs 12v and ground for power, then has a signal wire that will send back 12v on/off pulse as the window and vane spins passed the sensor

 

[genhawk21]

The 1994 and earlier 2.3l Rangers use a Hall Effect Crank sensor, so not AC volts, 12vDC on and off signal

VR(variable reluctance) sensors were used in 1995 and up and the cam sensors were VR and ABS and speed sensors are VR
These generate there own AC volts as the tone wheel spins passed them

Hall Effect sensor uses/needs 12v and ground for power, then has a signal wire that will send back 12v on/off pulse as the window and vane spins passed the sensor

Ron, I left everything connected and back-probed the two signal wires. Did not get anything when cranking. The part I don't understand is how it could run at all (and it does start and run well with the SPOUT disconnected and then reconnected) with a bad crank sensor. What am I missing?

 

[RonD]

You are correct, it couldn't start unless ICM was getting a timing pulse from crank sensor, so "bad test"???

Only 1 signal wire, then
A 12v
A ground
And a shield

Set meter to DC
Hook it to signal wire and battery ground, or any ground
Crank engine
Meter should pulse voltage, analog meter is better to see this on, or even a test light

 

[Snoranger]

You are correct, it couldn't start unless ICM was getting a timing pulse from crank sensor, so "bad test"???

Only 1 signal wire, then
A 12v
A ground
And a shield

Set meter to DC
Hook it to signal wire and battery ground, or any ground
Crank engine
Meter should pulse voltage, analog meter is better to see this on, or even a test light

Didn’t the 93-94 use the dual sensor? It had both CID and PIP.

 

[RonD]

Sorry, yes there was a CID wire and PIP wire so 5 wires including shield, but just that one sensor

1993/4 2.3l could have a Cam sensor as well but that was used by the computer, wasn't hooked to ICM

 

[genhawk21]

Sorry, yes there was a CID wire and PIP wire so 5 wires including shield, but just that one sensor

1993/4 2.3l could have a Cam sensor as well but that was used by the computer, wasn't hooked to ICM

Hey Ron, we are slowly working our way through the timing job. In the meantime, did any of you smart folks ever figure out whether there's a chance that disconnecting the SPOUT jumper is somehow bypassing a crank sensor issue on initial start? I don't expect redoing the timing and replacing the crank sensor will make any difference, but it will at least feel good to have done it and rule it all out. Plus we are using this truck for learning and it's a good thing to learn.