Sgtsandman's 2011 XLT

[sgtsandman]

Ok, some updates on the truck. For those who don't know, the truck has been having some issues with not starting when hot. Part of the issue was the fuel pump as mentioned above. I unloaded the parts cannon on it after doing some troubleshooting and not being able to pin point a problem. Being that it only happens when it's hot in the engine bay, makes troubleshooting difficult, not only from the heat but keeping the part(s) that may be at fault hot enough to narrow down the problem.

Since the question may be asked, how do I know what the engine bay temperatures are. I have a Scanguage II that is hooked up to the OBD II port at all times to show intake air temperature, engine water temperature, volts, and average mpg. The intake air temperature is a general gauge in how hot the engine bay is. Yes, it gets diluted by cold air being drawn in from the air filter box but as temperatures rise, it heats up the hose running from the filter box to the throttle body and the intake manifold it self heats up. Somewhere in all that (I think in the hose) is the temperature sensor for the intake air.

Relays were checked, fuel pressure was checked, the ignition coil, IAC and so on. Nothing indicated a problem. So, after doing an internet search on the issue, I came up with a list of parts that potentially could be the issue and threw them all at them. Then tried to simulate that issue by driving the truck for a while to get it hot and bring it back home to see if the issue was fixed so I would not end up with another $200 towing bill and hours of my time wasted in waiting for the tow (on a Sunday of a holiday weekend no less) and for a ride home. The issue appeared to be fixed. The truck would start up just fine after getting home and after waiting a while for engine bay temperatures to rise due to just sitting with no air flow. So, it appeared that the issue was fixed.

I was incorrect. The issue was better, but not fixed. A clue, that I missed earlier, was that in stop and go traffic, when the engine bay temperatures would climb, the air conditioning would go out until I was able to get out of traffic and get the engine bay heat purged. So, I looked at the relays again. While troubleshooting, they cooled down enough with the hood open and the cover off the power distribution block that the truck would start up again and run just fine. That happened more than once. So, the relays are the problem. There are three identical relays in the power distribution block that power the fog lights, air conditioner, and the fuel pump.

Relays 46A, and 48A and 48B are the offending relays (See the attached PDF). Also not that since all three relays are the same age, switching them around did not fix the issue.

No one other than Ford dealers sell the the Motorcraft relays, and at about $30 a piece, I decided to gamble on aftermarket replays to fix the problem. They did not, they made it worse. The A/C would cut off even sooner (lower engine bay temperature) than the failing OEM ones currently do and the crank, no start happens even sooner. The side benefit is that I now have relays I can swap out when it happens and get going again.

So, I broke down and spent the $90+ on the three relays and I'm waiting from them to be delivered since my work hours are not friendly with dealership hours.

Why all three instead of just the fuel pump/fuel injector relay you may ask? I like A/C and the fog lights are real handy early in the morning on the back roads I commute to and from work on.

EDIT: For those who may be running into the same issue, the original relay part number is 9L2T-14B192-AA. The new relay part number is 5M5Z-14N089-AA. Both are four pin relays. You do not want the other one listed that has five pins.

 

[Rick W]

Ok, some updates on the truck. For those who don't know, the truck has been having some issues with not starting when hot. Part of the issue was the fuel pump as mentioned above. I unloaded the parts cannon on it after doing some troubleshooting and not being able to pin point a problem. Being that it only happens when it's hot in the engine bay, makes troubleshooting difficult, not only from the heat but keeping the part(s) that may be at fault hot enough to narrow down the problem.

Since the question may be asked, how do I know what the engine bay temperatures are. I have a Scanguage II that is hooked up to the OBD II port at all times to show intake air temperature, engine water temperature, volts, and average mpg. The intake air temperature is a general gauge in how hot the engine bay is. Yes, it gets diluted by cold air being drawn in from the air filter box but as temperatures rise, it heats up the hose running from the filter box to the throttle body and the intake manifold it self heats up. Somewhere in all that (I think in the hose) is the temperature sensor for the intake air.

Relays were checked, fuel pressure was checked, the ignition coil, IAC and so on. Nothing indicated a problem. So, after doing an internet search on the issue, I came up with a list of parts that potentially could be the issue and threw them all at them. Then tried to simulate that issue by driving the truck for a while to get it hot and bring it back home to see if the issue was fixed so I would not end up with another $200 towing bill and hours of my time wasted in waiting for the tow (on a Sunday of a holiday weekend no less) and for a ride home. The issue appeared to be fixed. The truck would start up just fine after getting home and after waiting a while for engine bay temperatures to rise due to just sitting with no air flow. So, it appeared that the issue was fixed.

I was incorrect. The issue was better, but not fixed. A clue, that I missed earlier, was that in stop and go traffic, when the engine bay temperatures would climb, the air conditioning would go out until I was able to get out of traffic and get the engine bay heat purged. So, I looked at the relays again. While troubleshooting, they cooled down enough with the hood open and the cover off the power distribution block that the truck would start up again and run just fine. That happened more than once. So, the relays are the problem. There are three identical relays in the power distribution block that power the fog lights, air conditioner, and the fuel pump.

Relays 46A, and 48A and 48B are the offending relays (See the attached PDF). Also not that since all three relays are the same age, switching them around did not fix the issue.

No one other than Ford dealers sell the the Motorcraft relays, and at about $30 a piece, I decided to gamble on aftermarket replays to fix the problem. They did not, they made it worse. The A/C would cut off even sooner (lower engine bay temperature) than the failing OEM ones currently do and the crank, no start happens even sooner. The side benefit is that I now have relays I can swap out when it happens and get going again.

So, I broke down and spent the $90+ on the three relays and I'm waiting from them to be delivered since my work hours are not friendly with dealership hours.

Why all three instead of just the fuel pump/fuel injector relay you may ask? I like A/C and the fog lights are real handy early in the morning on the back roads I commute to and from work on.

EDIT: For those who may be running into the same issue, the original relay part number is 9L2T-14B192-AA. The new relay part number is 5M5Z-14N089-AA. Both are four pin relays. You do not want the other one listed that has five pins.

I had a few very exotic European cars that shall go nameless for this post, but they had a dozen of the same relays that would do this or that. Not the same as yours, but all the same number for that car. It was common knowledge that if you got stuck on the road, you could pull one from here and put it in there and at least get home (or to the Mechanic).

It was a great troubleshooting tool because you could move relays around and see what worked and didn’t work, then change them again, and you could pretty easily figure out which relay was the bad relay.

And I know I’ll be cast into the pit for saying this, but my friends and I always used aftermarket relays.

Hope it helps

 

[scotts90ranger]

I had a few very exotic European cars that shall go nameless for this post, but they had a dozen of the same relays that would do this or that. Not the same as yours, but all the same number for that car. It was common knowledge that if you got stuck on the road, you could pull one from here and put it in there and at least get home (or to the Mechanic).

It was a great troubleshooting tool because you could move relays around and see what worked and didn’t work, then chang them again, and you could pretty easily figure out which relay was the bad relay.

And I know I’ll be cast into the pit for saying this, but my friends and I always used aftermarket relays.

Hope it helps

Unfortunately they invented some new guessing games the last few years, now you really have no friggin clue what you can trust new or old... honestly I'd trust junkyard relays more than some of the newer stuff...

 

[sgtsandman]

I had a few very exotic European cars that shall go nameless for this post, but they had a dozen of the same relays that would do this or that. Not the same as yours, but all the same number for that car. It was common knowledge that if you got stuck on the road, you could pull one from here and put it in there and at least get home (or to the Mechanic).

It was a great troubleshooting tool because you could move relays around and see what worked and didn’t work, then change them again, and you could pretty easily figure out which relay was the bad relay.

And I know I’ll be cast into the pit for saying this, but my friends and I always used aftermarket relays.

Hope it helps

I tried swapping relays. The results were the same. They are all in the same location and are the same age. While not a bad idea, I've tried that. I will look to see if there is any of the same type elsewhere in the truck but from what I remember, I don't remember seeing those particular relays anywhere else in the truck. Most of them are the more normal, square shaped ones.

 

[sgtsandman]

I followed up on some ideas floated by some guys at the VFW the other day when discussing the heat issue with the truck. They suggested checking grounds and the underside of the power distribution box for corrosion and cracks. Well, both are free and not out of the question. So, I check every ground in the engine bay and every connection with wired ground. They all checked good and the bottom of the power distribution box looks almost brand new. So, no dice there.

I also followed up with Shultz Ford in Wexford concerning where the heck my relays are at. A shipping label was created on Monday and FEDEX has not reported receiving them, let alone them being in transit. They are shipping out of some place in Virginia. So, not directly Shultz Ford's fault. But since they are the one to service the order and FEDEX says they don't have it yet, they get to be the point of contact on finding out what is going on.

In other news, I finally got around to replacing the front sway bar bushings on the 2011, today. The old ones were kind of sloppy. Hopefully that fixes the suspension noise that I've been living with.