Opening up wheels/brakes/axles for projects, could use some parts selection help

[alwaysFlOoReD]

It's been so long since I've done drum brakes. I dont remember what it has there any more. I'm going to leave my response up until someone confirms the existence of pins or not.

 

[eightynine4x4]

It's been so long since I've done drum brakes. I dont remember what it has there any more. I'm going to leave my response up until someone confirms the existence of pins or not.

My question is, what specifically would be the point of leakage if something missing in these drum brakes was going to cause the system to slowly drain?
Last summer I accidentally ended up having Mavis replace all my brake lines. Long story. But clearly they flushed and filled it all. There were no leaks noted by anyone, and I’ve glanced at the brake fluid level now and again. Will check again today. I think it’s just one canister on top, not separate for front and back.
I guess they didn’t inspect the brakes thoroughly enough to see that half the hardware was missing in back. I do remember saying don’t worry about inspecting the brakes since I was planning to do them all so I don’t blame them for not seeing springs and cables missing.

 

[eightynine4x4]

Just checked and the fluid level is much lower than I remembered it being a few months ago. I also noticed that there seem to be divisions inside the clear plastic piece. Maybe for front/rear somewhat separately but with overflow between?
I’m thinking there’s in fact a gradual leak in rear.
Brakes have gotten increasingly weaker in recent months. Now the pedal has a coupe inches of dead space before finally giving resistance for braking.
I picked up a cheap kit of springs and other pieces from Advanced. It appears to have the parking strut spring.

 

[don4331]

Start with:

Grease is completely unnecessary. Once you have everything buttoned up, raise the passenger's side if the axle up 3-6" to flood the driver's bearing with oil, repeat for other side. Then should be good for another 100k miles.

There is a chamfer on the edge of the housing on the axle - that is what you are seeing in the mirror. I looks to be butted up.

I have never seen o-ring at the axle c-clips before. Personally, I would be tempted to remove and discard (seems like some one didn't know what they were doing previously, but other may correct me here). There is supposed to be some play, so when you are cornering hard at the "Wall of Champions" chicane (It's Montreal FP weekend), you don't get binding under the g forces.

OK, you have rear cylinder issues....

If you don't have pins between the piston of the brake cylinder and the brake shoes, and as the pistons didn't eject themselves the 1st time you tried to stop, they are seized in the bores. They need to be replaced.​

As the pins aren't considered a wear item, you might have to find them at a salvage yard.​

If you had the brakes inspected and the didn't notice the missing pins, I'd be looking for a different service center.

 

[eightynine4x4]

Start with:

Grease is completely unnecessary. Once you have everything buttoned up, raise the passenger's side if the axle up 3-6" to flood the driver's bearing with oil, repeat for other side. Then should be good for another 100k miles.

There is a chamfer on the edge of the housing on the axle - that is what you are seeing in the mirror. I looks to be butted up.

I have never seen o-ring at the axle c-clips before. Personally, I would be tempted to remove and discard (seems like some one didn't know what they were doing previously, but other may correct me here). There is supposed to be some play, so when you are cornering hard at the "Wall of Champions" chicane (It's Montreal FP weekend), you don't get binding under the g forces.

OK, you have rear cylinder issues....

If you don't have pins between the piston of the brake cylinder and the brake shoes, and as the pistons didn't eject themselves the 1st time you tried to stop, they are seized in the bores. They need to be replaced.​

As the pins aren't considered a wear item, you might have to find them at a salvage yard.​

If you had the brakes inspected and the didn't notice the missing pins, I'd be looking for a different service center.

Thanks!

Well I already greased my bearings and installed them so oh well haha.
Yeah I pretty thoroughly knocked my bearings in many times after getting to that point of insertion and they didn’t budge any more so I’m thinking they’re in.

That’s interesting about the o rings. Hmm. I guess I need to look into it a little further before yanking them.

Im pretty sure I told the guys at mavis to skip looking at the brakes becuse I was about to redo them and then I didn’t haha. I had dropped the truck off to have them correct a vulnerable DIY union in brake line and they just went a replaced all the lines. They’re actually pretty helpful there and they’re the ones who told me to fix my axle seals first and then come back for brake work. Not trying to knock them since they’ve been good to me for sure.

As for noticing symptoms of the cylinders working ive got a couple questions..

1, should I be partially seeing the pins right now or do they fully retract into the cylinder when not engaged?

2, if I turn the key on the accessory, can I trying operating the brakes to see if the pins pop out? Or do I have to have the engine running for vacuum? I’m weary of running it while on jack stands since my engine can fire up wiggly now and again.

3, do pins not come w a new wheel cylinder if I buy them after determining mine are seized?

4, can I rebuild seized cylinders and keep the pins they have (if mine have them inside?)

 

[eightynine4x4]

Also here’s my right cylinder.
No idea what the insides should be looking like… ?

 

[Uncle Gump]

I don't believe those wheel cylinders use the pins. The shoe has the the "pin"

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I agree.

 

[eightynine4x4]

Roger that. Looking at the pics I posted of whole assembly, sure looks like it.
I guess the next step is to fire up the truck and press the brakes and see what these things do?

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

When you press the brakes the master cylinder will send fluid down to the slave cylinders, which is what you have pictured. Most likely you will pop one of the pistons out then have to bleed the whole system. Wait until you have it back together before pressing on the brake.

 

[don4331]

I am standing corrected - the older 9" brakes don't appear to use pins - who'd have thunk it...

 

[eightynine4x4]

All right! Sounds like there’s a plan, which is I install the missing hardware and see how it operates the shoes.
Is a cylinder replacement easy to do with the axles installed or should I try to test/repair cylinders before I put axles back in?

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I would loosen and tighten back up all bolts and connectors to make sure that they work. Especially the brake bleeders, and brake line fittings.

 

[eightynine4x4]

I would loosen and tighten back up all bolts and connectors to make sure that they work. Especially the brake bleeders, and brake line fittings.

Will do. Gonna order up the parts tomorrow.
Side question.. do the rear brakes even participate in general braking, or is it entirely the front brakes until you really slam the pedal? I recall reading somewhere in the Haynes that the system defaults to front a lot and includes rear as needed. Wondering if I’ll even notice a difference at first. I will be doing this work no matter what, just curious about that.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Fronts do the majority of the work. I've read about 75%is front. Typically I replace front pads twice as often as rear shoes.