inline 6's

[Ozwynn]

I am not sure, I couldn't find a curve but i was actually shocked when I read those numbers, specially since a stock 92 econoline 302 (N code) makes 185 hp and 275 ft/lbs around the same RPMs which is still more than a TBI 350 from my 91 3/4 ton Suburban (RIP) @ 175hp and 275 ft/lbs around the same RPM.

I am not bustin your chops about the 300, just throwing out more options. a 4.5L swap isn't feasible because of the cost involved just getting the engine. and we had the conversation, I like the 300 I just wish ford would have went the same direction as Toyota and built a DOHC 300ci I6 instead of going with the 4.2L V6

 

[FordMan016]

i had heard the reason they went to the 4.2L is because of a new engine manufacturing team...just throwing it out there

 

[rusty ol ranger]

The reason they did away with the 300 (and 302, and 351, and 460) was because of emissions. Thanks to clinton and his BS clean air act we get the Crappy Sparkplug blowing tritons.

....and the other fact was those old engines wernt making them any money. A 300 (or 302, or 351, and most the time a 460) would litrally run forever. They had the kinks worked out of them sooo well after 40 yrs of production they never quit running.

...and if something did go wrong the average joe could work on it. Anyone see how much more complicated the triton engines are compared to even a 96 model 302 or 351? Its disgusting. It shouldnt be THAT hard to change the plugs. 80 bucks for a ignition coil....and having 1 per cyl? Pure BS.

The 4.2L went out of production in 09. Thats 13 years it was built. The 300 lasted from 64/65 ish all the way till 96 (and is still being produced for generators and certain industrial equipments).

The 300 arguably is the best engine ever built. In terms of durabilty and reliabilty. What other engine will run with a hole in the block and on 3 cylinders?

Yes, in stock form there farrr from a barn burner, but i have yet to find a sitution with either one of my 300's, or my dads 300's, or my uncles 300's, or my buddies 300's that it didnt have the torque to deal with it. It wont win you any races, but if you want something you can rely on and beat to death day in and day out and have it always come back for more the 300 is your ticket.

They'll pry still be 300/302/351/460s running around by the time 09 tritons are being melted down and made into beer cans.

later,
Dustin

 

[92ranger2wd]

I'm definitely in favor of the straight sixes, and for a "project" engine, that's what I would turn to. The Ford 300's that I've seen are tough engines that can take a beating. I'm glad that they at least lived long enough to see fuel injection.
I have a 292 straight six in my 81 GMC 3/4 ton. The engine has 200k on it, and spent most of its life as a plow truck. I love it for the reliability, simplicity, and sweet low end torque. Like the 300, it was also introduced in the mid sixties. Sadly, the 292 was eliminated back in '87, also due to emissions.

 

[bobbywalter]

The reason they did away with the 300 (and 302, and 351, and 460) was because of emissions. Thanks to clinton and his BS clean air act we get the Crappy Sparkplug blowing tritons.

....and the other fact was those old engines wernt making them any money. A 300 (or 302, or 351, and most the time a 460) would litrally run forever. They had the kinks worked out of them sooo well after 40 yrs of production they never quit running.

...and if something did go wrong the average joe could work on it. Anyone see how much more complicated the triton engines are compared to even a 96 model 302 or 351? Its disgusting. It shouldnt be THAT hard to change the plugs. 80 bucks for a ignition coil....and having 1 per cyl? Pure BS.

The 4.2L went out of production in 09. Thats 13 years it was built. The 300 lasted from 64/65 ish all the way till 96 (and is still being produced for generators and certain industrial equipments).

The 300 arguably is the best engine ever built. In terms of durabilty and reliabilty. What other engine will run with a hole in the block and on 3 cylinders?

Yes, in stock form there farrr from a barn burner, but i have yet to find a sitution with either one of my 300's, or my dads 300's, or my uncles 300's, or my buddies 300's that it didnt have the torque to deal with it. It wont win you any races, but if you want something you can rely on and beat to death day in and day out and have it always come back for more the 300 is your ticket.

They'll pry still be 300/302/351/460s running around by the time 09 tritons are being melted down and made into beer cans.

later,
Dustin

emmisions is part of the reason. a real big part was bean counter mentality of the modular design and lower part number count....based in part with pending emmisions and lack of faith in the developing technology(which gm and dodge really made ground with) which by 2001 made the idea of the mod engines pros/cons over the windsors for hi pressure obsolete.

when that was realized ford should have shitcanned the tritons and brought back the windsors.

so fuggem....

 

[rocks]

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54678

 

[bobbywalter]

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54678

it hurt reading that.



much misinformation, or no information out here in the net i guess.



i dont hate inlines, just prefer v8's


in any case i am a run what you got kind of guy and appreciate the efforts


but you should be able to tune it to 16....up to 20 mpg if you can find a od trans and get some 308 gears, what gears did you say you have?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The reason they did away with the 300 (and 302, and 351, and 460) was because of emissions. Thanks to clinton and his BS clean air act we get the Crappy Sparkplug blowing tritons.

....and the other fact was those old engines wernt making them any money. A 300 (or 302, or 351, and most the time a 460) would litrally run forever. They had the kinks worked out of them sooo well after 40 yrs of production they never quit running.

...and if something did go wrong the average joe could work on it. Anyone see how much more complicated the triton engines are compared to even a 96 model 302 or 351? Its disgusting. It shouldnt be THAT hard to change the plugs. 80 bucks for a ignition coil....and having 1 per cyl? Pure BS.

The 4.2L went out of production in 09. Thats 13 years it was built. The 300 lasted from 64/65 ish all the way till 96 (and is still being produced for generators and certain industrial equipments).

The 300 arguably is the best engine ever built. In terms of durabilty and reliabilty. What other engine will run with a hole in the block and on 3 cylinders?

Yes, in stock form there farrr from a barn burner, but i have yet to find a sitution with either one of my 300's, or my dads 300's, or my uncles 300's, or my buddies 300's that it didnt have the torque to deal with it. It wont win you any races, but if you want something you can rely on and beat to death day in and day out and have it always come back for more the 300 is your ticket.

They'll pry still be 300/302/351/460s running around by the time 09 tritons are being melted down and made into beer cans.

later,
Dustin

This is great...

The 302 died in the Explorer with coil over plug... just like the mod motors you loath. Even the otherwise outdated pushrod SBC has one coil for each plug. - disreguard

Both the '96 and the current trucks are mess under the hood, if you can't handle one you won't hack it with the other either. The new '09's are actually much easier to work on than the earlier Triton equiped trucks. Plugs last 100k easy, so you don't have to put yourself thru it very often. Normally the 2 valve engines (97-03) only spit plugs if they where not installed correctly. The 04+ engines are completely immune to this.

If something chucks a rod thru the block, I don't really care if runs or not at that point. It isn't a huge selling feature, I prefer to keep the internal parts INSIDE the engine and the engine hitting on all cylinders as much as possible.

I am sure there will still be 300/302/351/460s running around for a long time, afterall, people are still restoring Model T's with their flathead four bangers. You see Tritons floating around that have 200k-300k on them already, dry oil pan and still running like new, they are a tight precise engine that just don't quit.

Trust me, Ford dealerships STILL make plenty of money off of windsors. They are a good engine but are neither 10' tall or bulletproof, they still break down just like anything else. They are good engines don't get me wrong, but they are not molded by the hands of God or anything.

I am putting a 289 in my Ranger because it is cheap, if it was feasable I would much rather have a 5.4 in there... I love the powerband but the darn things are still too new for people to give away (I got the 289 for free)

I would take my "crappy sparkplug blowing triton" over a 300/302/351/460 from the mid 70's up. And if you are going to give me one, scratch the 300 from the list and wrap it in a Mustang please.

 

[bobbywalter]

This is great...

The 302 died in the Explorer with coil over plug... just like the mod motors you loath. Even the otherwise outdated pushrod SBC has one coil for each plug.

Both the '96 and the current trucks are mess under the hood, if you can't handle one you won't hack it with the other either. The new '09's are actually much easier to work on than the earlier Triton equiped trucks. Plugs last 100k easy, so you don't have to put yourself thru it very often. Normally the 2 valve engines (97-03) only spit plugs if they where not installed correctly. The 04+ engines are completely immune to this.

If something chucks a rod thru the block, I don't really care if runs or not at that point. It isn't a huge selling feature, I prefer to keep the internal parts INSIDE the engine and the engine hitting on all cylinders as much as possible.

I am sure there will still be 300/302/351/460s running around for a long time, afterall, people are still restoring Model T's with their flathead four bangers. You see Tritons floating around that have 200k-300k on them already, dry oil pan and still running like new, they are a tight precise engine that just don't quit.

Trust me, Ford dealerships STILL make plenty of money off of windsors. They are a good engine but are neither 10' tall or bulletproof, they still break down just like anything else. They are good engines don't get me wrong, but they are not molded by the hands of God or anything.

I am putting a 289 in my Ranger because it is cheap, if it was feasable I would much rather have a 5.4 in there... I love the powerband but the darn things are still too new for people to give away (I got the 289 for free)

I would take my "crappy sparkplug blowing triton" over a 300/302/351/460 from the mid 70's up. And if you are going to give me one, scratch the 300 from the list and wrap it in a Mustang please.

302 wasnt cop. distibutorless yes, cop i dont remember that one








theres no way i would do a early 5.4 over a 351. i can just now occasionally get low mile 3 valve 5.4's cost effectivly so mod motors are back on my radar screen.

basically you can get a 300 hp triton engine that has a bad ass torque curve from hell and decent economy cheaper then you can build that power and economy to match a 302 with. but a 351 is right there, so from packaging a 351 is a big winner.





in any case i would run a late 6.0 gm over either cause why not have it all?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

302 wasnt cop. distibutorless yes, cop i dont remember that one

I just looked it up, they have two coils, just like my brother's 4.6. I could have sworn they where COP.

I have never heard of a 351W getting 18mpg without a cliff involved. I get that in my 5500# half ton pretty easy on summer gas.

For a 1st gen stuffing a mod motor would be nightmare, but I have seen them in 3rd gens and you could have swore they came that way... they have a lot more room to play with.

Dunno much about the GM 6.0 other than I have heard they will pass about anything but a gas station.

 

[bobbywalter]

I just looked it up, they have two coils, just like my brother's 4.6. I could have sworn they where COP.

I have never heard of a 351W getting 18mpg without a cliff involved. I get that in my 5500# half ton pretty easy on summer gas.

For a 1st gen stuffing a mod motor would be nightmare, but I have seen them in 3rd gens and you could have swore they came that way... they have a lot more room to play with.

Dunno much about the GM 6.0 other than I have heard they will pass about anything but a gas station.

i know stock 95 fs broncos with 308 gears and 235 street tires and efi 351 can cruise 18 mpg @ 65.

wooooooooooooo..... thats a hi performance setup worthy of a 351 right??

in my truck that same engine would be lucky to get 15-16....but likely less. with tuning its possible to make better, but thats constant and costly and town milage using the noise pedel would blow mpg wise in any case.


cost effective swap. that means something to me. that means low mile donor with best performance potential. you get it cheap and just drop er in and go...

in that case a later 5.4 is the best ford candidate for a big 4x4ranger if a guy wants a ford powertrain.

the gm 6.0 on the otherhand is a killer on fuel in town raging on it like any engine is, but cruise will get better mpg then any of the other stockers with more power. nice thing in my eyes.

 

[Will]

I like the 6.0 too.

A 300-6 belongs in a field turning a pump.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

it hurt reading that.



much misinformation, or no information out here in the net i guess.



i dont hate inlines, just prefer v8's


in any case i am a run what you got kind of guy and appreciate the efforts


but you should be able to tune it to 16....up to 20 mpg if you can find a od trans and get some 308 gears, what gears did you say you have?

No offense bobby, cause you usually know what your talking about...but those guys know inlines like trhe back of there hand, just because there saying things you dont wanna hear doesnt make them untrue.

....and will, i dont wanna argue over it so im just stateing my opinion and then stopping....in a truck used as a truck should be used a 300 is the better canadate the a 302.

Yes, the 300 was the base engine....why? Because the average idiot public doesnt know that the 300 is as great as it is. They see a 302 and think "oh its got 2 more cylinders it must be better", and they will dish out the extra money for one. Do you really think if they offered the 302 as the base engine anyone would shell out an extra grand or so for a 6 cylinder?, wheather it was better or not?

later,
Dustin

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

I agree on the 300. In my experience, a 300 will eat a 302 when it comes to pickup truck duties. And probably get better gas mileage too. In a car is different story. They're no 460 or diesel when it comes to towing, but they'll move anything a 350 sbc, 351w, or 5.4 can.

I thought the modulars were awesome when they first came out. I still think they're a very solid engine, and have seen quite a few with 250k and run like they're new. But they have suffered their share of issues. Shooting spark plugs, cracked exhaust manifolds (ever notice how all the high mileage 5.4 F-150's all have the same exhaust leak?) exploding intake manifolds (4.6L cars), and terrible valve seals (92-94 crown vic's) are some of the things that come to my head. And $60-$80 per coil times 8 cylinders is a bit rediculous when 2 coil packs at $40 a piece works just as well. And what's with having to remove the fuel rail to get the spark plugs out? That's retarded. And having to tear the front end off an otherwise perfect shape motor to replace the timing chain tensioners that ford decided to make out of plastic? That's also retarded. From a "having to work on it" standpoint, I'll take a 300 anyday.

Now is it worth the work to swap a 300 in a ranger? Not for me!!! Neither is a modular for that matter. There are plenty of easier/cheaper engine options.

And as for the 6.0, I finally drove one of my uncle's company vans. It was an 07 with the 6.0. When I first drove it, empty, I thought to myself "what a slug! Does this thing have a 4.3 in it?" Needless to say, when I popped the hood and found myself staring at a 6.0 I was pretty shocked, considering how everyone raves about that engine. You could also watch the gas gauge drop just trying to get the thing up a small hill with a headwind. I tried flooring it and I seriously think my 4.0 explorer would have pulled a few car lengths on it going 0-60. I wasn't too impressed with the almighty chevy 6.0 And yes, it was running right.

 

[Sevensecondsuv]

Someday I'm going to try turboing a 300. And do it right and get the EFI tuned for it. It will be a small turbo, something that will spool at 1500 RPM and run out of steam at about 3700 RPM. It will be built for torque and towing. I'm thinking 450 ft-lbs by 2000 rpm and about 225 horsepower at 3500. 12 PSI should do that. With it's 1.14 mains/cylinder ratio, the 300 should take it easy. With a good tune and polished combustion chambers, 12 PSI should be doable with the stock 8.7:1 compression ratio and pump gas. The 4.00" bore will make finding forged pistons a breeze. With a ZF-5 behind it, it should really do well with trailers. Now I just gotta think of what year F-series I want to put it in.....