Faulty Fuel Injector causing mis at startup?

[RonD]

If you are SURE its on TDC 2./3. then you can do both valves
Easy way to tell is to move crank 1/2 turn both ways, if no valve movement then you are GOOD

 

[eightynine4x4]

If you are SURE its on TDC 2./3. then you can do both valves
Easy way to tell is to move crank 1/2 turn both ways, if no valve movement then you are GOOD

So if sitting at EITHER 2 or 3, I can adjust both valves.
I suppose that means I can be somewhere between 2 and 3 also, and still be able to do both valves?
The point is, we want both the valves 100% closed and nowhere near being opened by the rods, then we can do the hex nut adjustment for both at same time.

 

[RonD]

End of 2 and start of 3, at TDC

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Couldn't you use your thumb over the sparkplug hole and crank? As soon as pressure is felt stop cranking and adjust...

 

[RonD]

I love old school common sense

Mark Twain - "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example."

 

[eightynine4x4]

Couldn't you use your thumb over the sparkplug hole and crank? As soon as pressure is felt stop cranking and adjust...

I love old school common sense

Mark Twain - "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example."

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, and for me, in a lot of ways the 2.9L (and any engine) is still operating on magic! But at least I finally understand the 4 stroke principals due to this flurry of effort haha.

On the note of education, I've been really pining for a full detailed 2.9L engine diagram, proper exploded view with all tiny parts. Like big and clear, not just small and blurry like these ones:

Engine Parts for 1989 Ford Ranger | Genuine OEM Ford Parts & Accessories

www.oemfordpart.com

I'd buy a book for a hundred bucks if there was one that had all of it in perfect detail. Does the legendary shop manual have that? Nobody posts pics of the interior pages when they put them up for sale.

I did just read this great article though, which gives me a much MUCH better sense of what might be the issues with my engine if it is in fact lifters depleted of oil.

Valve Lifter Basics and Beyond - Engine Builder Magazine

Valve lifters play a key role in the valvetrain of pushrod engines. They go all the way back to the earliest days of the internal combustion engine.

www.enginebuildermag.com

It hadn't clicked for me until reading that, the fact that the lifters are not just needing oil to be lubricated, they are operating on the very oil that gets sent to them. I knew they were hydraulic yes, but thought that meant they had their own hydraulic fluid inside. You know, like so many other self contained hydraulic mechanisms out there. But no, they take in oil, and use it as force and bleed it. So I'm starting to conjure up ways my engine could not only be noisy but partially dysfunctional... like if not enough oil is getting to/in the lifters for them to perform their hydraulic function, I believe that means that the push rods might not have as much upward action and thus the valves may not be fully opening for either the intake and the exhaust, depending on the lifter condition. Or something like that. Not only could there be a relative imbalance of functionality across all cylinders, one cylinder could have an imbalance in itself between its own intake and exhaust relationship.

Certainly all of that could lead to some idle issues, and maybe some cylinders misfiring at first. Maybe as the engine warms the tolerances are just changing enough to function a bit better. And it got me thinking to what might be happening on hot starts for me.. I already did the injectors, and have basically done everything else for fuel. So maybe my temporary misfires on hot starts have nothing to do with an injector leaking fuel, but rather they have to do with poor valve performance. Maybe some lifters are functioning ok during hot start, and maybe some lifters are collapsed at hot start. But at cold start, they're all equal enough to at least start up more symmetrically.

1- If the cause of lack of oil in lifters is the cam bearing issue and not faulty lifters, then the only real solution is a full rebuild due to bearing access. Or i could get lucky with a HV pump.
2- If the cam bearing situation in my 2.9 is not totally bad, and the lifters are ok, maybe the pump is weak, and so that new pump is the solution for the next XXXXX number of miles until cam bearings are fully bad.
3- If some lifters are bad though, and oil flow is actually decent in the engine, I wouldn't be daunted by pulling the heads to replace the lifters. I already have replaced the passenger side exhaust manifold so that's fresh, and I am planning on pulling the drivers side manifold soon anyways, to put on a new Y-pipe since mine has a very small leak near cats. So i'll be pretty primed for pulling the heads and doing a full set of parts evaluation and replacements. Maybe that could solve my issues.

But I suppose there's still a possibility that the lifter pre-load adjustment will help or solve something. It doesn't seem to me like the sound of ticking would change much, but it does seem like valve performance could improve and thus cylinder functionality could improve. That's the main reason this thread was started, because i'm getting weirdly bad cylinder performance sometimes. But I don't fully understand the lifter/rod mechanics yet so this is all just a fart in the wind.

I'm also now wondering about oil viscosity, and whether or not the 15W-40 Rotella is helping lifters or making it more difficult for them to function, in whatever state they're in. Also wondering about Lucas High Mileage stuff, which i haven't tried yet. Help or hurt. Maybe in combo with the lower Motorcraft 5W-30 spec it could help.

Anyways, will do the adjustments today and report back on the results...

 

[eightynine4x4]

First verdict:
Just with cylinder #1 alone.

Front (exhaust) valve is first loosened by a roughly expected amount like 1.5 turns+ ish, then was slightly loose brought back to flush so no rocker movement.
Rear (intake) valve is loosened just a tad, say 1/4 turn, and there’s immediately rocker movement. But I notice that on this valve the push rod is being easily pushed down by rocker, so it’s still sitting weakly flush but rod is deceiving things. So I continue loosening nut a similar expected amount like 1.5+ turns ish, and like exhaust valve it eventually has a loose rocker as expected. In this state , the rod doesn’t have to move down for rocker to jiggle. But, that rod is real easy to push down a little bit and the rocker can wiggle like crazy.

Accordingly… the screw appears as you’d expect.. Exhaust screw is more backed out when first rocker loose point. Intake screw is barely backed out when first rocker “movement”, but that’s the push rod being loose. When I back it out enough for rocker to move on its own without push rod going in, screw basically matches exhaust screw level.

So.. collapsed spring inside intake lifter? How would a collapsed lifter be described? Spring is weak?

Here’s something that seems key.. with the intake valve set as just described, with the rocker flush when rod is stable but rod is still pushable, so essentially our correct flush situation, i measured how many turns it takes for the rocker/rod combo to feel as snug as it should at flush, effectively measuring how far down the spring in/under lifter starts to resist being pushed down.. and it’s just after 1.5 turns. Maybe between 1 1/2 and 1 5/8 turns.

Is it possible that the lifter spring aged and doesn’t push back beyond its compressed state? Like from the truck sitting for years on end in the collapsed spot? Seems not random, that the point at which it feels like a strong spring is the exact spec point at which the rod is supposed to get tightened down to.

I expect to find this elsewhere in the truck. So, what’s the protocol? It sure seems like maybe this is causing that valve to not open fully. I mean it takes force to compress the valve spring, so if the lifter spring is weak for the first leg of the motion, maybe my valve isn’t opening that exact much. Can I absorb the difference and just tighten it down until no easily loose motion from push rod / rocker, ie push the rod down slightly, then start from there and do the 1 3/4 turn?

From what I observe in engine designs at my amateur level, seems to me that although that is a hack job, it might actually work as a temporary and non-damaging solution until engine rebuild. I’m picturing the lifter spring starting off a little more compressed, but is that ok?

Here is a photo of both being non-jiggly..
The front exhaust valve is simply flush, and the rear intake valve is turned 1 5/8 turns so that the rod actually has resistance from below it.

 

[RonD]

The spring is there to hold the lifter's piston up so its tight against the c-clip without oil pressure at startup, yes springs can fail so that lifter can start to "tick" usually off and on, but can be steady over time

The lifter pre-load does have wiggle room, 1 and 1/2 to 1 and 3/4 is recommended
This keeps pressure at both ends of the rocker and both ends of the pushrod when cam lobe is not moving lifter up, so there should be no "ticks" of metal parts slapping together because of a gap between them, i.e. valve train noise

Because of wear on rockers and pushrods I tend to go with 1 and 3/4 but no more that that
You can bend pushrods if its adjust down too far

Yes, you can usually feel if a lifter is not what it should be as far as pushback, spring load, because after adjustment the pushrod is easier to turn that other that have been adjusted
Nothing you can do about that, no adjustment for a broken part, lifter has to be replaced, but it will still work until it's replaced

After adjustment move crank 1/2 turn in both direction just to be sure the cam was at 0 lift when you did the adjustment, if rocker moves at all then cam was in the wrong position for doing the adjustment

 

[eightynine4x4]

The spring is there to hold the lifter's piston up so its tight against the c-clip without oil pressure at startup, yes springs can fail so that lifter can start to "tick" usually off and on, but can be steady over time

The lifter pre-load does have wiggle room, 1 and 1/2 to 1 and 3/4 is recommended
This keeps pressure at both ends of the rocker and both ends of the pushrod when cam lobe is not moving lifter up, so there should be no "ticks" of metal parts slapping together because of a gap between them, i.e. valve train noise

Because of wear on rockers and pushrods I tend to go with 1 and 3/4 but no more that that
You can bend pushrods if its adjust down too far

Yes, you can usually feel if a lifter is not what it should be as far as pushback, spring load, because after adjustment the pushrod is easier to turn that other that have been adjusted
Nothing you can do about that, no adjustment for a broken part, lifter has to be replaced, but it will still work until it's replaced

After adjustment move crank 1/2 turn in both direction just to be sure the cam was at 0 lift when you did the adjustment, if rocker moves at all then cam was in the wrong position for doing the adjustment

All makes sense. I’m really considering tearing up the upper half and putting in all new lifters and rods and whatever else is sensible. I guess that puts me at a top end rebuild. Like I said I have to undo the drivers side manifold soon anyways.

But if I stick with these old parts, I’ll just have to live with the clammer for now. At least I understand why it’s noisy now. I still have 10 more valves to go and I’m sure I’ll find a bunch more.

So what you’re saying is that the weak lifter spring doesn’t affect valve performance? Like the valves, once adjusted correctly, are still going to open and close the same as if the lifter springs weren’t faulty? Because if it does affect performance of valves, it makes even more sense for me to do the top end rebuild right now, since my other idle issues might be caused by it.

As for checking for perfect TDC by cranking left and right and expecting half turn of no valve movement in either direction… the valve movement actually begins a bit less than 1/2 crank in both ways. I tried this like 10 times to make sure I wasn’t making a mistake… when cranking to the right from TDC, the exhaust valve will start opening about 2 “inches” PRIOR to the half way notch on pulley. Then it closes around the false TDC, which is of course when the intake valve starts to open, and then the intake valve is finally closed about 2 “inches” AFTER the half way notch on pulley.
So it is symmetrical. This is based on cylinder 1, using the TDC on pulley. So instead of there being a full 1/2 crank of zero activity in both directions, there is actually only 1/2 crank minus 2 inches of pulley travel, in both ways, with no activity. Slightly under 1/2 tIn other words the valve activity on either side is a bit closer than 1/2 crank travel. But it is symmetrical. I think you can see this in the video most recently posted.

So I’ve been intending to apply that to the rest of the cylinder TDCs. Just find the spot that is exactly halfway between intake finally closing and exhaust just starting open.

I had concerns that maybe this was a problem itself, caused by worn lifters or something. But I don’t know enough about that.

My endoscope just broke recently, otherwise I’d stuff it into the plug holes to be 100% certain where each TDC is.

I’m also considering putting permanent knicks in the pulley for each cylinder’s TDC, once I’m certain for each one. Or using some kind of paint pen or something that wouldn’t wear off easily.

 

[RonD]

You often have to pull the heads to get all the lifters out, can't remember on the 2.9l but for sure on the 4.0l the heads need to come off
So I would tolerate the noise if engine is still running OK

 

[eightynine4x4]

Finished the adjustment yesterday..
Was wanting a more internally defined, and future repeatable, method for finding TDC for each cylinder so went ahead and started measuring the crank pulley and tested out temp markings. After successfully measuring the circumference and dividing it into 3, which was a bit of a challenge, i found that 6 7/32 inches landed me exactly on the money being 1/3 turn. Like dead on, within 1/64 tolerance on the wheel. Marked the two extra spots after #1 TDC with thin line using paint pen, got under and tested measurements again and again and again with tape. The measuring tape put me exactly on the marks each time again. On the other empty pulley area I wrote 1/5 by the real TDC, wrote 4/3 by the following marker, and wrote 2/6 by the last marker.
Tested the approach and cranked a million visual confirmations for all the valve activity in relation to these new markings on pulley. It was always as good as I’d expected, and called it official. Hoping it’s just as good as having a endoscope inside the spark holes and watching the cylinders top out. My endoscope broke recently or I would have done that.
Obviously the 1/5, 4/3, 2/6 are opposite revolutions with each other. Anyways I was glad for doing this because it made me feel like I was dialed in to shaft moving the cylinders instead of the valves activity themselves, which on my truck I ultimately found to be pretty out of adjustment. So if I had been referencing just the activity of the valves and then cranking a certain point from there and doing the adjustment, I felt that I’d be maybe close but not really nailing TDC for each cylinder. I’m not certain about this though.

As for the adjustment itself.. A handful of the valve rockers became jiggly after only loosening them by 1/2 turn. I think one or two of them became jiggly only after 1/4 turn. Multiple others took about 3/4 turn to make loose, a few of them 1 turn, a few required 1 1/2 turns. This is not the rod situation, relating to the lifter condition. This was the actual rocker. I can only assume that the aged parts below were causing this, and that the truck just hasn’t had an adjustment in a long long time, if ever. I mean they’re hydraulic so probably most average owners just never think of this. As for the condition of the lifters below, revealed by the rods being easy to push down, I’d say around half of them were like that. So probably half my lifter springs are partially working.

Anyways I carefully got them all loose and then just flush again. I err’d on the side of loose from flush, since I knew I was going to crank it 1 3/4 down and didn’t want to over do it. But they all were flush, I just didn’t tighten them any extra hairline smidges once flush enough to deem flush.

Then I tightened them all 1 3/4 turns down. Wasn’t the easiest thing in the world since there was quite a bit of resistance in these bolts (makes sense) and I had to use my longest socket wrench which presented maneuvering issues. But I did all the cranking in as precise of 1/4 turns as I could, making sure the wrench was clicked back far enough each time to actually start resisting at 0 degrees and I ended at 90.

I don’t really know what to expect when firing it up. All I can say is that I definitely altered the valve adjustment a lot! It seems like I compensated for worn parts that have never been compensated for. So I guess we’ll see.

Hoping I have time to clean up the covers and put it all back together today.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

You often have to pull the heads to get all the lifters out, can't remember on the 2.9l but for sure on the 4.0l the heads need to come off
So I would tolerate the noise if engine is still running OK

2.9s the same way

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, and for me, in a lot of ways the 2.9L (and any engine) is still operating on magic! But at least I finally understand the 4 stroke principals due to this flurry of effort haha.

On the note of education, I've been really pining for a full detailed 2.9L engine diagram, proper exploded view with all tiny parts. Like big and clear, not just small and blurry like these ones:

Engine Parts for 1989 Ford Ranger | Genuine OEM Ford Parts & Accessories

www.oemfordpart.com

I'd buy a book for a hundred bucks if there was one that had all of it in perfect detail. Does the legendary shop manual have that? Nobody posts pics of the interior pages when they put them up for sale.

I did just read this great article though, which gives me a much MUCH better sense of what might be the issues with my engine if it is in fact lifters depleted of oil.

Valve Lifter Basics and Beyond - Engine Builder Magazine

Valve lifters play a key role in the valvetrain of pushrod engines. They go all the way back to the earliest days of the internal combustion engine.

www.enginebuildermag.com

It hadn't clicked for me until reading that, the fact that the lifters are not just needing oil to be lubricated, they are operating on the very oil that gets sent to them. I knew they were hydraulic yes, but thought that meant they had their own hydraulic fluid inside. You know, like so many other self contained hydraulic mechanisms out there. But no, they take in oil, and use it as force and bleed it. So I'm starting to conjure up ways my engine could not only be noisy but partially dysfunctional... like if not enough oil is getting to/in the lifters for them to perform their hydraulic function, I believe that means that the push rods might not have as much upward action and thus the valves may not be fully opening for either the intake and the exhaust, depending on the lifter condition. Or something like that. Not only could there be a relative imbalance of functionality across all cylinders, one cylinder could have an imbalance in itself between its own intake and exhaust relationship.

Certainly all of that could lead to some idle issues, and maybe some cylinders misfiring at first. Maybe as the engine warms the tolerances are just changing enough to function a bit better. And it got me thinking to what might be happening on hot starts for me.. I already did the injectors, and have basically done everything else for fuel. So maybe my temporary misfires on hot starts have nothing to do with an injector leaking fuel, but rather they have to do with poor valve performance. Maybe some lifters are functioning ok during hot start, and maybe some lifters are collapsed at hot start. But at cold start, they're all equal enough to at least start up more symmetrically.

1- If the cause of lack of oil in lifters is the cam bearing issue and not faulty lifters, then the only real solution is a full rebuild due to bearing access. Or i could get lucky with a HV pump.
2- If the cam bearing situation in my 2.9 is not totally bad, and the lifters are ok, maybe the pump is weak, and so that new pump is the solution for the next XXXXX number of miles until cam bearings are fully bad.
3- If some lifters are bad though, and oil flow is actually decent in the engine, I wouldn't be daunted by pulling the heads to replace the lifters. I already have replaced the passenger side exhaust manifold so that's fresh, and I am planning on pulling the drivers side manifold soon anyways, to put on a new Y-pipe since mine has a very small leak near cats. So i'll be pretty primed for pulling the heads and doing a full set of parts evaluation and replacements. Maybe that could solve my issues.

But I suppose there's still a possibility that the lifter pre-load adjustment will help or solve something. It doesn't seem to me like the sound of ticking would change much, but it does seem like valve performance could improve and thus cylinder functionality could improve. That's the main reason this thread was started, because i'm getting weirdly bad cylinder performance sometimes. But I don't fully understand the lifter/rod mechanics yet so this is all just a fart in the wind.

I'm also now wondering about oil viscosity, and whether or not the 15W-40 Rotella is helping lifters or making it more difficult for them to function, in whatever state they're in. Also wondering about Lucas High Mileage stuff, which i haven't tried yet. Help or hurt. Maybe in combo with the lower Motorcraft 5W-30 spec it could help.

Anyways, will do the adjustments today and report back on the results...

Thats what i had been trying to explain to you...the lifters rely on proper oil pressure to work

Regular lucas stablizer and 10w40 is what ive had the best luck with.

 

[eightynine4x4]

Haha yeah, I get it now
I’m gonna leave the fresh batch of Rotella 15W-40 in there and see what happens. Then if it’s still noisy as hell, which I assume it will be, then I’ll empty a quart and add that Lucas high mileage and see how that goes.
If that sounds different but not ideal, then at least Ill know that the oil choice is having impact, and I’ll maybe try starting again with Motorcraft 5W-30 in there, and then maybe doing Lucas with that too. I’m thinking there are advantageous and disadvantages to both directions of viscosity.
Maybe I’ll video each cold startup and whole warmup from the perspective of the engine bay and make a comparison video of oil versions. I could do the hot start too, although that one is much more of a wild card.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Haha yeah, I get it now
I’m gonna leave the fresh batch of Rotella 15W-40 in there and see what happens. Then if it’s still noisy as hell, which I assume it will be, then I’ll empty a quart and add that Lucas high mileage and see how that goes.
If that sounds different but not ideal, then at least Ill know that the oil choice is having impact, and I’ll maybe try starting again with Motorcraft 5W-30 in there, and then maybe doing Lucas with that too. I’m thinking there are advantageous and disadvantages to both directions of viscosity.
Maybe I’ll video each cold startup and whole warmup from the perspective of the engine bay and make a comparison video of oil versions. I could do the hot start too, although that one is much more of a wild card.

15w40 with lucas is going to flow like syrup on a cold start...but 15w40 warm with lucas will be equal to 10w40 warm with lucas.