Electrical Help req'd

[CraKel]

So were back again with another problem...

I seem to have a major drain on my battery and I cant figure out where its coming from. Ill list a few things I've done or think it could be and would really appreciate some advice on what to do next.

First things first. Replaced battery, C-tire said it was no good so got a new 850cca listed for a 4.0L ranger, should be well more than enough power supply.

With power to the battery I see a major draw from somewhere but cant figure out where its coming from.. Checked all fuses, they seem good, even in the engine bay. I've heard of ppl taking fuse #15 out (lights, hazards, signals) and that stopped the drain. I did this and it didnt help.

Right now I talked with my buddy who helped me with the swap.. electrical isnt my strong point so he did most of the work in this area. We used the oem fuel pump and bypassed the impact switch in the cab and reversed the polarity and fuel pump works, it goes through a holley regulator and fuel gets to the engine with no problems. The wire he spliced is the pink with black stripe from fuel tank and we went straight to fuel pump relay in fuse box in engine bay.. could this be a problem causing the draw??

Other thing is Im using a 100amp ac delco alternator i got off rock auto, bit bigger than whats listed for a 79' t-bird 302 but I wanted more juice. Its a 4 wire hook up two small wires in center and what i believe to be power and ground terminals with threaded nuts on the outside. Power (red plastic grommet) goes to battery power and two small wires go to battery and guage so he says. He read up and said the old alternator was case grounded so I never added one, but what about the other terminal? That would be the other threaded nut and only terminal not with a wire.. I tried adding a ground cable to that but it didnt help the draw.

Now upon start up it sounds fine but with the new battery the alternator is completely overcharging the battery. Were talking like 17-18 volts.. Not good. The engine sounds fine but as soon as you hit throttle a loud whine comes from the alternator. Also water pump pulley looks misaligned when engine on (crank wp and alt all on same belt = ps and crank other belt, dual serpintine setup from march with std rot wp). I didnt have this misalignment before on the belt and its still as tight as it was the day we put it on. Maybe adding a few spacers to adjust may help..

So what the heck is going on here.. Ive looked in the forums and tech data and read all through the charging sytem troubleshooting in the library. Seems to me its an alternator problem and possibly its hooked up wrong.

The battery light is on in the cab as soon as I turn on the truck too, Ive read on here, thats alternator issue ya? Its a brand new unit from rockauto, before spending money on a new one I gotta try and figure out if its a simple wiring issue. What about the voltage regulator, that should be built into the alt correct?

Is there something Im missing here? Any help to get this thing running right is much appreciated.

 

[CraKel]

Oh and the "worth a shot" fix was to switch over the two small connecting wires on the alternator and see if that works.. Think he said something about the guage possibly not working bc he wasnt sure what wire was what when he hooked it up.. but guage seems to work fine, Im gonna try it this wknd when im back home but cant see it helping the situation..

 

[nutpantz]

You can hook up a amp meter to the battery and see how much is being drawed out, then start pulling fuses until there is no big draw. You should then know what is pulling the power.

 

[CraKel]

Ya guess thats the next step, I tried testing voltage through each fuse when power was hooked up but got no readings.. So thats why I figured it may be an alt issue. Ill try some things this wknd and see if anything happens, post some pics if i can get them as well.

 

[shane96ranger]

Great idea by nutpantz. Get an amp meter and hook it inline of the positive side.


Here is a great "how to" provided to me by Sasquatch_Ryda when my Escape had a drain issue:


Component Tests
Battery — Drain Testing

WARNING: Do not attempt this test on a lead-acid battery that has recently been recharged. Explosive gases may cause personal injury. Failure to follow these instructions may result in personal injury.
NOTICE: To prevent damage to the meter, do not crank the engine or operate accessories that draw more than 10A.
NOTICE: If equipped with the CD6 audio unit, precautions must be taken when the battery has been disconnected. When reconnecting the battery, make sure no interruption of power occurs for 30 seconds. If power is interrupted during the first 30 seconds, permanent damage to the CD6 audio unit will result.
NOTE: No factory-equipped vehicle should have more than a 50 mA (0.050 amp) draw.
Check for current drains on the battery in excess of 50 mA (0.050 amp) with all the electrical accessories off and the vehicle at rest for at least 40 minutes. Current drains can be tested with the following procedure.
NOTE: Many electronic modules draw 10 mA (0.010 amp) or more continuously.
NOTE: Use an in-line ammeter between the negative battery post and its respective cable.
NOTE: Typically, a drain of approximately 1 amp is attributed to an engine compartment lamp, glove compartment lamp, or interior lamp staying on continually. Other component failures or wiring shorts are located by selectively pulling fuses to pinpoint the location of the current drain. When the current drain is found, the meter reading falls to an acceptable level. If the drain is still not located after checking all the fuses, it is due to the generator.
NOTE: To accurately test the drain on a battery, an in-line ammeter must be used. Use of a test lamp or voltmeter is not an accurate method due to the number of electronic modules.

1. Make sure the junction box(es)/fuse panel(s) is accessible without turning on the interior lights or the underhood lights.

1. Drive the vehicle at least 5 minutes and over 48 km/h (30 mph) to turn on and activate the vehicle systems.

1. Allow the vehicle to sit with the key off for at least 40 minutes to allow the modules to time out/power down.

1. Connect a fused jumper wire (30A) between the negative battery cable and the negative battery post to prevent modules from resetting and to catch capacitive drains.

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable from the negative battery post without breaking the connection of the jumper wire.

1. NOTE: It is very important that continuity is not broken between the battery and the negative battery cable when connecting the meter. If this happens, the entire procedure must be repeated.
   Connect the battery tester between the negative battery cable and the post. The meter must be capable of reading milliamps and should have a 10 amp capability.

1. NOTE: If the meter settings need to be switched or the test leads need to be moved to another jack, the jumper wire must be reinstalled to avoid breaking continuity.
   NOTE: Amperage draw varies from vehicle to vehicle depending on the equipment package. Compare to a similar vehicle for reference.
   NOTE: No factory-equipped vehicle should have more than a 50 mA (0.050 amp) draw.
   Remove the jumper wire.

1. Note the amperage draw. Draw varies from vehicle to vehicle depending on the equipment package. Compare to a similar vehicle for reference.

1. If the draw is found to be excessive, remove the fuses from the smart junction box (SJB) 1 at a time and note the current reading. Do not reinstall the fuses until you have finished testing. To correctly isolate each of the circuits, all of the fuses may need to be removed and then install 1 fuse, note the amperage draw, remove the fuse and install the next fuse. Continue this process with each fuse.

1. If the current draw is still excessive, remove the fuses from the battery junction box (BJB) 1 at a time and note the current drop. Do not reinstall the fuses until you have finished testing. To correctly isolate each of the circuits, all of the fuses may need to be removed, then install 1 fuse, note the amperage draw, remove the fuse and install the next fuse. Continue this process with each fuse. When the current level drops to an acceptable level after removing a fuse, the circuit containing the excessive draw has been located.

1. Check the wiring diagrams for any circuits that run from the battery without passing through the BJB or the SJB. If the current draw is still excessive, disconnect these circuits until the draw is found. Also, disconnect the generator electrical connections if the draw cannot be located. The generator may be internally shorted, causing the current drain.

 

[shane96ranger]

Also, it's pretty simple to find out if it's your alternator. Just unhook it completely (just the wires obviously) when you've got the amp meter hooked up.

 

[martin]

Do you have an electrical diagram of the alternator? as it sounds like one of the earlier externally regulated ones. If you don't have a diagram perhaps you could post a photo of the back of it. in the mean time disconnect the two small wires and see what happens.

 

[CraKel]

Man why didnt i think of that? Ok ill try that this wknd when im back home and ill post the results. Ill also post a picture of the altrrnator and see if i can get some info through the part number online.

Thanks guys big help as usual!

 

[doorgunner]

..........that reminds me to test my '36.....

I let is sit for a week and,,,,,,,,,,click/click/click/click............................

 

[snoopjonnyjon]

It sounds to me like you have the alternator field hooked directly to battery. That will kill the battery when it isn't running, and while running the alternator will be producing unregulated voltage.

 

[CraKel]

It sounds to me like you have the alternator field hooked directly to battery. That will kill the battery when it isn't running, and while running the alternator will be producing unregulated voltage.

Ill post a pic of the algernator.. I tried a few things this wknd with what limited time I had to work on the truck but didnt really get anywhere.. Sounds like that could definitely be my problem! Anyways next post will have pics n details. Thanks!

 

[CraKel]

Ok, so I tightened everything up on the belt and fixed the misalignment with the water pump. Seems to be in-line now and runds fine. I pulled the power wire off completely from the alternator housing and left power to the battery overnight friday.. Sat afternoon, battery was down to 1.2v! Doh! So after a trickle charge I decided to fire it up again.. Starts no problem lots of spark and runs ok. Slight throttle hpwever the big high pitched whine comes from alt.. SOOO I decided to just start pulling wires haha. The two little wires I talk about in the previous post well I just unhooked one and bam! The engine like came alive, sounded ALOT better, no whine, better idle and just sounded smoother overall. figured ok lets put that back in and see if it goes back to sounding crappy, not sure if something arced out but had a slight spark when put cable back in and no change.. still sounded great. Left it for a few min, batt guage seemed to be working ok, batt was around 13v so alt was still charging system as well.

Turned it off and left the two little wires off went for dinner to see if there was a drop in voltage.. In about an hour n half it went from 12.3 to 11.97.. So still got a drain. Havent loooked online to find a schematic of the alternator but heres some pictures of the alternator housing and terminals and the two leads from the alt where my bud hooked them to the oem wiring. I believe the go to wires (green w red stripe) and (yellow w white stripe) on the oem connector by the fuse box under the hood. Are these both run to the voltage regulator through the oem connector? I think the extra terminal should be wired into a ground in the regulator aswell right? Can this be the problem?...Seems that the engine runs great without that yellow w white wire attached though..lol. And now that yellow wire, that is the indicator right? So my battery light on the dash is always on as soon as I turn the engine over.. Could it be that these two wires are just mixed up? Or is the alt just wired wrong completely..

Gonna pull the fuel pump fuse tomorrow and try that route, see if it stops the draw. Like I said we bypassed the impact switch so Im not sure if thats gonna affect anything, ran a wire from pink w black i believe and hooked it into the fuel pump relay in the under hood fuse box...

Heres some pics of the alt.

 

[CraKel]

Ok so I looked online and Im convinced that its a problem with my alternator seeing as though the engine basically came alive and sounded awesome after disconnecting one the the smaller alt wires. In regards to the alternator wire hook up I got this off the ford ranger wiring help off this website.

******************************************************************
Charging System 1991+
(Click Here For Diagram Page1)
(Click Here For Diagram Page2)

Black Wire - Ground
Black With Orange Stripe Wire - Power Distribution Box To Alternator
Gray With Yellow Stripe Wire - From Ignition Run To Fuse Panel
Light Green With Red Stripe Wire - From Voltage Regulator To Charge Indicator Light
Orange With Black Stripe Wire - Power Distribution Box To Fuse Panel
Orange With Light Blue Stripe Wire - From Starter Relay To Alternator
Red Wire - Battery Positive To Power Distribution Box
Yellow With White Stripe Wire - From Power Distribution Box To Voltage Regulator
White With Black Stripe Wire - From Alternator To Built In Voltage Regulator

so the yellow with white stripe is going to my alternator as well as the light green w red stripe. Yet my battery light in cab is on.. Do I have them just on the wrong terminals? Now I think my power terminal or field from alternator is going directly to the battery.. Think this is my problem? Should I be putting it into one of the other ones listed? And why do I have so many unused ones in the same bundle.

 

[CraKel]

After thinking this over i dont think the alt is giving me the drain now but i do believe its hooked up wrong. Power is going directly to batt which i think should be to the regulator first correct? Engine runs great but now alt doesnt charge the battery... I just dont know what wire it should actually be going to.. Can only get a ammeter that pinches the line and tells amps going through the line, would this meter work? Im not sure if its used for dc though. Were so close to having this this road worthy but this one problem is becoming a pain in the arse. Anyone got any ideas? Also pulled a ton of fuses with no luck to solving the draw fuel pump relay, acwot relay etc..

 

[sparky2eh]

Ok, just started reading this thread and first thing I notice or seem to notice is is that the installed alternator looks a lot like an internally regulated GM style alternator....... if so it is sometimes called a GM one-wire alternator and is not wired up like a Ford style at all......
If it is in fact a GM style a wire from battery positive goes to the Large terminal, small terminal #2 is jumpered to that same Large terminal on the alternator and small terminal #1 goes to a switched 12v terminal on the ignition switch, thru the dash alternator light.
Terminal #2 is battery power to the regulator and terminal #1 turns the alternator on/off.