'99 2.5 Rough Running, Terrible Idle, Detonation

[Bernard]

This one?
http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147400

B.

 

[Mark_88]

Similar...but try this one...

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164411&highlight=computer+part+numbers

Again, not the one I was thinking of as it lead to another page showing all the model years and the computers associated with that engine/transmission combinations and permutations (lol)...but it showed the suffix to mean (I think) it was associated with specific combos...also included mustang 2.3 engines...so it was a link in the post and I bookmarked the page...I hope!

 

[Mark_88]

Actually, the list I may have been thinking of was in that post by RonD...

http://oldfuelinjection.packrad.net/page17.html

Looks like it lists a number of the engines but it is not really complete...it does have a 1999 listed but that is it...and it doesn't specify the other things like auto, manual, transmission.

I think the wreckers would know if it comes out of a vehicle the type of transmission it had...they would need that information if they truly understood what they were doing and why they kept the part...otherwise it might be best to stay away from them if possible...

 

[Bernard]

Mark,

Thanks.

B.

 

[Bernard]

Right, well, it wasn't the computer, either. Replaced that, and the issue is unresolved.

Decided to investigate whether the problem is general, or localized. Pulled off the spark plug leads, from one cylinder at a time, back to front.
#4 off, engine wouldn't start
#3 off, engine wouldn't start
#2 off, engine started, and ran only slightly more rough than when connected.
#1 off, engine started, and ran only slightly more rough than when connected.

Deduced that the problem cylinders are #1 and #2.

After that, I ran a compression test, and #3 and #4 are in the 145lb - 150lb range. Meanwhile, #1 and #2 barely have any compression.

I was convinced, that I burned through the head gasket, between cylinders #1 and #2, so I connected a small (airbrush) compressor to the combustion chamber, TDC, valves closed. It held pressure, invalidating that idea.

Any thoughts?

 

[tomw]

This post started a while ago, and seems to have migrated from a FPR problem to others.
If #1 & #2 misfire, and the head gasket between is intact, and they both have compression, what's left, in general, is fuel and ignition.
You can check for spark with a spark tester, and injector function by adding fuel from external source. If it were mine, I'd be checking the intake manifold for leakage, as an air leak would possibly make the mix too lean to burn well. You can also remove the injectors and cycle them using a 9-volt transistor battery. There's a youtube about using carb cleaner to clean injectors, using a valve stem from a tire, a valve stem cap and a tube from the choke cleaner, along with a 9-volt to operate the injector.
There may be small screens at the inlet to the injectors that could have gotten plugged. You could try swapping injectors from 1&2 with 3&4 and see if the misfire follows.
tom

 

[Bernard]

TomW,

Thanks for your response. I think you may have misread my most recent response. There is pressure, but no compression. Also, virtually the entire fuel, ignition, and the engine control system have been replaced with new parts.

Right, well, it wasn't the computer, either. Replaced that, and the issue is unresolved.

Decided to investigate whether the problem is general, or localized. Pulled off the spark plug leads, from one cylinder at a time, back to front.
#4 off, engine wouldn't start
#3 off, engine wouldn't start
#2 off, engine started, and ran only slightly more rough than when connected.
#1 off, engine started, and ran only slightly more rough than when connected.

Deduced that the problem cylinders are #1 and #2.

After that, I ran a compression test, and #3 and #4 are in the 145lb - 150lb range. Meanwhile, #1 and #2 barely have any compression.

I was convinced, that I burned through the head gasket, between cylinders #1 and #2, so I connected a small (airbrush) compressor to the combustion chamber, TDC, valves closed. It held pressure, invalidating that idea.

Any thoughts?

Best regards,
Bernard.

 

[Mark_88]

Well Bernard, looks like you've just about eliminated most things...

What is the air pressure compared to a regular compression number? I can't remember offhand how much pressure and air hose can generate...but I don't think it is anywhere near 145 psi that you would get under normal operating conditions...not to mention other factors like heat causing expansion or whatever.

If the compression test shows very low I'd go with what you thought initially...and suspect the head gasket.

Did you try the glove test? Put a latex glove (or similar) over the rad cap opening and start the engine...if the glove blows up or otherwise indicates that there is air being introduced into the cooling system then that would indicate the head gasket is toast.

Might even work with just cranking the engine but I believe it needs to be running...even poorly...to show properly.

There may be videos on this test available if you want a second source...I couldn't find any but maybe you already know how to do it...pretty simple.

 

[dhess184@gmail.com]

Hi All,

I'm getting desperate, where my Ranger is concerned.

Went out, for a routine drive, three weeks ago. On the way up a hill (not a severe grade) I heard some detonation. Slowed down, to relieve the problem. As the drive went on, it kept getting (gradually) worse, and started running rough. Still, it did not light up the check engine light.

Took it home, and connected my Actron code reader.
No codes.
Guessed that the problem had to be fuel starvation.
Replaced the fuel pump.
No joy.
Replaced the fuel filter.
No joy.
Replaced the injectors.
No joy.
Took it to a local shop, where the owner connected it to his diagnostic equipment. He came up with a laundry list, for me, which I have started on.
Replaced the front coil pack.
No joy.
Swapped the original front, for the rear coil pack.
No joy.
Replaced the four passenger side spark plugs.
No joy.
Replaced the idle control valve.
No joy.

At that point, I realized that I was pissing in the wind, and came up with a new strategy. I'm asking the hive mind for help.

Do any of you have any wisdom, that you'd be willing to share, on the topic?

Thank you, so much, in advance,
Bernard.


1999 Ranger 2-door, 2WD, 5-speed, short bed, regular cab, no cruise control, 125,000 miles.

Newbie suggestion here.
You only replaced the one coil pack, how about replacing them both. My cousin and I both have rangers that had issues. Replace the coil packs (2) and now cousin's truck is fine. Mine will be when I replace fuel filter (I hope).

 

[tomw]

Bernard said:I was convinced, that I burned through the head gasket, between cylinders #1 and #2, so I connected a small (airbrush) compressor to the combustion chamber, TDC, valves closed. It held pressure, invalidating that idea.

I just thought a bit about this. If the head gasket is gone between #1 & #2, then pressurizing one will pressurize the other. If both of the plugs were removed, leakage between should make some noise. If only one were removed, you'd be able to build up pressure. Which was the case when testing?
An airbrush compressor does not produce a lot of pressure nor volume, to my knowledge, so it might not have enough capacity to cause noise, or build up enough pressure that is would be noticed if the leak seals enough when cold to blow past.
You know that the cam is intact, or #3 & 4 would not have their valves operating, so you are left with #1 & 2 valves, pistons, rings, and head being intact or not. I think.
You can try adding a Tbsp of oil to one cylinder at a time, and checking compression to see if it improves. Improvement would indicate leaky rings. No improve, and it likely valves or head gasquet.
tom

 

[Bernard]

Bernard said:I was convinced, that I burned through the head gasket, between cylinders #1 and #2, so I connected a small (airbrush) compressor to the combustion chamber, TDC, valves closed. It held pressure, invalidating that idea.

I just thought a bit about this. If the head gasket is gone between #1 & #2, then pressurizing one will pressurize the other. If both of the plugs were removed, leakage between should make some noise. If only one were removed, you'd be able to build up pressure. Which was the case when testing?
An airbrush compressor does not produce a lot of pressure nor volume, to my knowledge, so it might not have enough capacity to cause noise, or build up enough pressure that is would be noticed if the leak seals enough when cold to blow past.
You know that the cam is intact, or #3 & 4 would not have their valves operating, so you are left with #1 & 2 valves, pistons, rings, and head being intact or not. I think.
You can try adding a Tbsp of oil to one cylinder at a time, and checking compression to see if it improves. Improvement would indicate leaky rings. No improve, and it likely valves or head gasquet.
tom

All of the passenger side plugs were out, during any compression/pressure procedure.

The latest decision is that the head has to come off. It must be something to do with valves. Most likely the intake side.

 

[Mark_88]

Before pulling the head I would try two things...if possible.

1. the glove test...remove the rad cap (engine cool) and put a latex glove over the opening...crank the engine and watch the glove...if it bounces around...head gasket is pooched...

2. If you can get one, they have little cameras that allow visual inspection of the valves without pulling the head...you can watch them open and close and if you see a problem...pulling the head would be justified and necessary.

I know you've replaced just about everything but it still sounds like a problem that could very well be something like a loose wire or damaged sensor...by all means it could be a broken valve or something like that too...but these tests can confirm that beforehand and save you the time and energy...

Not that pulling the head is that hard...and shouldn't be a problem for you...thanks for being patient with this and keeping us updated.

 

[Oldman99]

Hi All,

I'm getting desperate, where my Ranger is concerned.

Went out, for a routine drive, three weeks ago. On the way up a hill (not a severe grade) I heard some detonation. Slowed down, to relieve the problem. As the drive went on, it kept getting (gradually) worse, and started running rough. Still, it did not light up the check engine light.

Took it home, and connected my Actron code reader.
No codes.
Guessed that the problem had to be fuel starvation.
Replaced the fuel pump.
No joy.
Replaced the fuel filter.
No joy.
Replaced the injectors.
No joy.
Took it to a local shop, where the owner connected it to his diagnostic equipment. He came up with a laundry list, for me, which I have started on.
Replaced the front coil pack.
No joy.
Swapped the original front, for the rear coil pack.
No joy.
Replaced the four passenger side spark plugs.
No joy.
Replaced the idle control valve.
No joy.

At that point, I realized that I was pissing in the wind, and came up with a new strategy. I'm asking the hive mind for help.

Do any of you have any wisdom, that you'd be willing to share, on the topic?

Thank you, so much, in advance,
Bernard.


1999 Ranger 2-door, 2WD, 5-speed, short bed, regular cab, no cruise control, 125,000 miles.

Did you find the fix?