87 Ford Ranger 2.0 stalling rough idle issues

[psyc0tic1]

hi all,

I have an 87 ranger with the 2.0 manual transmission POS I got in trade for a 4 wheeler. My boy wanted it and once I put a starter and solenoid on it I got it started. Was missing on cylinder 1 and rough idle and stalling.

Checked it out and no compression on #1. Pulled head and the #1 piston was burnt so I replaced the piston. The rest of the motor looked real new and the head looked good with no burnt valves or cracks I could find.

The timing belt cover was missing so getting the cam and crank in time was a bitch. Still not sure it is exactly right but assuming it is at this time.

After putting a new muffler and fuel pump on it I got it running again only to have terrible idle and stalling still (but running on all cylinders).

After reading much on the aisan 2 barrel carbs like the one on this truck I decided I would swap it out for a better one. I bought a holley 2100 (2300?) 2 barrel that was used on early motorcraft cars and made an adapter plate (since there is no such thing in existence on the planet to buy).

Got her up and running again only to find it runs exactly the same as with the original carb. All vacuum lines plugged off except for the distributor and new wires run for the electric choke I installed in place of the exhaust heater one. Major vacuum leak at the intake for the choke so even though it is a bad idea... plugged off the choke housing intake to stop the vacuum leak for testing purposes.

I sprayed everywhere looking for vacuum leaks and never noticed any idle changes.

I could get the truck to idle smooth for a while and then it would just start idling rough again. When I try to drive it, it seems to be very sluggish and act like it doesn't want to run.

I was able to get it to run better by almost closing the choke plate on it because I figured it was getting too much air as if the carburetor was too high of a CFM carb.

I am a bit lost here. I have worked on cars for 27 years and never found one so difficult to diagnose.

I have attached a picture of the completed assembly. I know it doesn't show anything but I could really use some advise/help.

Thank you very much in advance.

 

[Mark_88]

Hi and welcome to TRS~!

Thanks for the memories of my first Ranger...even the memories of the same problems and solutions.

My first inclination is the timing is still off and needs to be reset. Even without the plastic timing marks on the head it's fairly easy to set the timing on these engines...and easy enough to be off by a tooth or two which seems to be the main problem.

I always started by removing the #1 plug and rotate the crank clockwise with my thumb over the plug hole. When I felt the pressure on my thumb that indicated compression stroke...then gently roll it while spying through the plughole to see that the piston was at TDC. Once that was done just line up the crank and oil pulley triangles to point to each other and set the cam timing so that it points to approximately 5 o'clock.

With cam timing there are noticeable "humps" when you turn the cam gear. and you aren't going to get it much closer to proper timing any better than to simply let it settle on or around the 5 o'clock position.

Once that is done install the timing belt making sure that the gears do not move...and it's best to have the proper tool to set/release the tension but I never used one...and be VERY careful not to use the alternator bracket at the top to pry on...that bracket is hard to find and very fragile.

I used a spare alternator belt to pull the tension pulley in and had a ratchet on the tightening bolt to hold it in the open position...then slipped the belt over and very...very gently released the bolt to apply tension to the timing belt.

Once that's done you can fine tune the timing by rotating the distributor slightly clockwise or counter clockwise...you should be idling around 800 rpms.

NOTE: Proper base timing must be set with vacuum advance plugged. Once you set it to the 8* BTDC you can plug the vacuum line onto the distributor base and it should jump to around 28* BTDC.

If you are still stalling then check the vacuum connector for the brake booster and anything else (distributor vacuum advance also) for leaks.

 

[tomw]

This one doesn't give a fig about the aux shaft timing. Rotate the crankshaft until the keyway is at 12:00. That will put #1 at TDC. Check the triangle on the cam sprocket, it should be aligned with the pointer sticking out from the front of the engine. If the pointer is missing, there may be a 'line' on the casting at about 4, which takes the place of the pointer on later models. (save some bucks)
The rotor should be pointing near #1 plug position in the cap. You can adjust where it is aligned by turning the aux shaft sprocket. If the crank is at TDC, the rotor should be about 8-10 degrees past having the 'tip' pass the inductor coil. Don't know terminology, but the idea is that the spark occurred 8-10 degrees ago when the engine is AT TDC.
Thread the belt over the cam sprocket, and under the crank sprocket. Feed it up past the aux, and, keeping it more taught than sloppy, feed it over the cam. You want ALL the slop/excess on the tensioner spans, cam-tensioner, tensioner-crank. The measured part is the crank- aux-cam, which must be correct.
Release the tension, let the belt snap tight, and tighten the tensioner.
Rotate the crankshaft TWO turns, and end up at TDC again. (without the cover, finding any marks is difficult, so go with the crankshaft keyway @12:00. Check the timing mark on the cam. If it is off, de-tension, reposition the belt, and repeat.
tom

 

[psyc0tic1]

Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for the timing information. I too suspect that I do not have the timing right and have read many different sets of instructions on the marks but both of yours appear to be the most specific and I will give that another shot and report back.

Any weigh-in on the size of that carburetor? Is it too big for the motor? too much air? I bought it off ebay and amazingly for its age I was the first to open it up and have rebuilt carbs forever and the rebuild went perfect so I don't suspect there is anything wrong with it... just wondering if it is too big.

As for the vacuum leaks... this truck as you can see in the picture... does not have a brake booster which eliminates that as a culprit for a leak and all other ports have been plugged off.

 

[Mark_88]

Missed your reply for some reason...

Timing the aux shaft isn't critical, but putting the rotor in the general location of #1 plug on the distributor saves having to pull the distributor and reseat it...which I've had to do at least once because I overlooked it initially.

Vacuum leaks can occur around the base of the carb, or any other contact surface in that install so double checking is a good thing. You will need at least to have the vaccum on the distributor and there is usually a debate springing out of that line placement...such as where to plug that line in...I used the top of the intake and was able to run my truck for 14 years without too much trouble.

The carb is probably OK...check the jet size to make sure you are not allowing too much fuel but otherwise should be fine. I ran a Motorcraft 5200 on my 2.0/2.3 for about 12 years and only had problems with the float...that caused it to flood on the highway for some reason...once I reset the float to a bit lower in the bowl it didn't slosh over and run down the throat of the carburetor to flood it out.

I forget the "best" jet sizes for that carburetor but I'm sure that information is online or one of the other members has information pertinent to your setup. It is usually embossed on the side of the carb what it comes with as stock but not sure if there was any place used to denote a modification by previous owners...and it may require pulling them to check what size they are. I'm sure it is stamped somewhere on the jet, but I never bothered to look at mine the few times I had to pull them to clean out junk that got stuck in there...which is a good thing to check because plugged jets can cause severe bogging if the secondary is plugged...you simply won't have the fuel needed for the higher workload. Mine usually sucked in pieces of thread tape that I didn't trim off the filters when I installed them...so I stopped using it once I figured out how to seal the lines without it.

 

[psyc0tic1]

Well I was finally able to get back to look at it... caught the flu and was down for a bit.

Checked all timing and all is correct so I reverted back to my thought that it might be a vacuum leak and here is why.

When I could get it running I could force the choke closed using the adjustment for the automatic choke and get it to run pretty good... just wouldn't drive well for the same reason.

Started removing the carburetor... all was sealed up good and all was tight and the gasket stuck good all over the adapter plate.

Started removing the adapter plate and the front left bolt was loose and only the right side of the gasket was stuck to the adapter plate.

I think I was sucking a bunch of air on the left side and I will reassemble with new gaskets and try it again.

 

[Mark_88]

Thanks for the update...quite possible you found a huge vacuum leak there and hopefully that solves your issues.

I remember removing my carb and adapter and putting that red gasket goop all around it at one point...that solved a big problem with both intakes that I used. As long as you use a sealer that is fuel resistant...which I didn't know about until someone pointed it out to me.

Sometimes it really helps to just bounce ideas off someone...

 

[psyc0tic1]

Thanks for the update...quite possible you found a huge vacuum leak there and hopefully that solves your issues.

I remember removing my carb and adapter and putting that red gasket goop all around it at one point...that solved a big problem with both intakes that I used. As long as you use a sealer that is fuel resistant...which I didn't know about until someone pointed it out to me.

Sometimes it really helps to just bounce ideas off someone...

That is exactly what I was preparing to do. I don't like using sealant but I will be trying it in this case.

I will update if that fixes the issue.

 

[psyc0tic1]

This reakin thing is going to be the death of me. I did indeed have a massive vacuum leak at the adapter plate as I suspected. Fixed that.

Now the stupid thing will backfire through the carburetor when trying to get it to start like it is out of time but I have checked and rechecked the timing and it is all correct. Also it will start and then within seconds act like the carburetor ran out of fuel and die.

Plenty of fuel... bowl level checked and rechecked.

It will start and sound good but die.

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

 

[Mark_88]

Well, that is actually typical...fix one thing and onto another...

Did you pop the distributor cap to see where the rotor was pointing during the timing set/check? I would suggest that and if it is not pointing roughly towards the drive side fender (#1 plug location) then try loosening the bolt and rotate it a few degrees.

Could be choke/fuel issues but the backfire through carb is almost always fuel related...or wiring...

Check that the wires are installed on the correct plugs...I've done that a few times myself when pressed with other things on my mind...had the timing correct but swapped #s 1 and 2 onto wrong plugs.

 

[RonD]

Carbs operate by vacuum and air flow passed the Jets
If you close the choke plate you increase the vacuum so increase the fuel being sucked out of the jets.
Vacuum leak would obviously cause a low fuel issue with carbs

Since you have fixed a vacuum leak what happens now when you close the choke plate?

Check firing order one more time, after you have worked on the same engine over and over you WILL goof on the firing order, either on the cap or on the plugs
Happened too many times to me to count, and I KNEW is was correct, KNEW IT!!!!
But it wasn't, lol.

Carb back fire could be wrong firing order, spark happens just before intake valve closes.
Or if using electronic spark advance, it is not working correctly, unplug SPOUT jumper
Or if using vacuum advance, unplug hose, plug the hose, and try starting again
Or lean air/fuel mix but this is usually only after engine is warm, lean mix ignites when it enters hot cylinder.

If you have a vacuum gauge hook it up and see what it shows when cranking engine
3-5" would be normal, no other vacuum leaks, if vacuum starts off at 4" and then starts to drop as you continue cranking then............

Plugged exhaust, engine is a self powered air pump, if exhaust can't get out then new air/fuel can't get in.
So engine can start, then back pressure in exhaust gets too high and no air flow passed the jets so engine stalls
Vacuum gauge would show that happening, engine start vacuum will go up to 18-20", then start dropping as less air is being pulled in because exhaust can't get out
Or have someone "feel" the tail pipe exhaust velocity as engine starts

 

[psyc0tic1]

Well, that is actually typical...fix one thing and onto another...

Did you pop the distributor cap to see where the rotor was pointing during the timing set/check? I would suggest that and if it is not pointing roughly towards the drive side fender (#1 plug location) then try loosening the bolt and rotate it a few degrees.

Could be choke/fuel issues but the backfire through carb is almost always fuel related...or wiring...

Check that the wires are installed on the correct plugs...I've done that a few times myself when pressed with other things on my mind...had the timing correct but swapped #s 1 and 2 onto wrong plugs.

Checked all that multiple times for verification... didn't think about relaying that information.

I gave up... traded it for a full size chevy pickup

 

[Mark_88]

Ah, well, you tried. They are not the easiest to work on or get working properly. It did take considerable good fortune for me to find what I needed to correct my issues and at the time I had plenty of money, a good daily driver, and enough desire to beat the problems...

Enjoy the full sized Chevy...I heard they can be hard on gas...like my Dodge...I miss my 4 banger and doing the work to keep it running...but we gotta move forward...