351 C swap

[baddad457]

Ford has been putting "Boss 302" on a few too many things these days.

There is a new Boss 302 block, that is based on the old 302 Windsor design.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9085

The original Boss 302 blocks were also Windsor designs as well. It was the heads that gave it the reputation.

 

[flaminranger]

Those measly 2 bbl American Cleveland heads ? Yes, they're 400+ HP door stops. You'll never see that with stock, unported Windsor heads. (unless you huff it) The Cleveland will do it with a simple cam, intake and carb change. And those Ford Racing "Boss 351" blocks in the catalog ? Did you even bother to actually READ the specs ? Deck height is 9.2 (same as a Cleveland) main journals are also stock Cleveland dimensions. It's a hybrid Windsor/Cleveland block. And it's also offered in the Windsor deck (9.5) but again, with Cleveland mains.

my windsor is a 9.2 deck they changed in 1973 I believe to 9.5 and the cleveland 2v heads might flow enough to make 400 hp but not with a stock dish 2v piston

 

[baddad457]

o.k. I want in on this.
I like both engines but I wouldn't put a cleveland in a ranger.my opinion.
as far as heads go 2v heads SUCK but they can be fixed to work. 4v heads suck Cause as said earlier they have HUGE ports that flow alot of air in fact too much. they slow down the air fuel mix going into the cylinder so you lose that low rpm torque. but they too can be made to work better with port plates and such.

Another internet myth. Have you ever actually driven a 4 bbl stock Cleveland powered car ? I have. And it lacked nothing on the bottomend. (71 Torino GT, 351C 4 bbl, 11 to 1 comp ratio, stock cam, stock intake, stock carb, thru the stock iron manifolds, backed by an FMX and a 3.00 geared 9".)

 

[baddad457]

my windsor is a 9.2 deck they changed in 1973 I believe to 9.5 and the cleveland 2v heads might flow enough to make 400 hp but not with a stock dish 2v piston

Windsor blocks NEVER had a 9.2 deck. The stock 9.5 to one pistons and 2 bbl heads will make 400+ hp with the right cam and fed by a 4 bbl intake and 750 carb.

 

[flaminranger]

Another internet myth. Have you ever actually driven a 4 bbl stock Cleveland powered car ? I have. And it lacked nothing on the bottomend. (71 Torino GT, 351C 4 bbl, 11 to 1 comp ratio, stock cam, stock intake, stock carb, thru the stock iron manifolds, backed by an FMX and a 3.00 geared 9".)

no I haven't but I raced that same car you are talking about only they had 10 to 1 the boss 351 was the only U.S. car to have 11 to 1 in a cleveland
and I kicked that cars but with my 302 with a BIG cam World products heads and A 3000 stall in my montego
but big deal a 2v cleveland sucks and 4v makes good power with big compression now make all that work on pump gas

 

[flaminranger]

Windsor blocks NEVER had a 9.2 deck. The stock 9.5 to one pistons and 2 bbl heads will make 400+ hp with the right cam and fed by a 4 bbl intake and 750 carb.

Well I better take those pistons out of my mustang and get bigger ones so I can get a true 10.5 to1

 

[baddad457]

no I haven't but I raced that same car you are talking about only they had 10 to 1 the boss 351 was the only U.S. car to have 11 to 1 in a cleveland
and I kicked that cars but with my 302 with a BIG cam World products heads and A 3000 stall in my montego
but big deal a 2v cleveland sucks and 4v makes good power with big compression now make all that work on pump gas

Nope, go look up the specs again. The std 351C 4 bbl Cleveland also had an 11 to 1 comp ratio. And your "9.2 decked Windsor" is another mistake you've made. Kicked it's butt with a 302 ? You've already proven yourself to be wrong on specs, and you want me to believe you're right on this too ? They will work on pump gas too. All you have to know to do it is know how to pick the right cam and know how to tune an engine. There's nothing mysterious about it.

 

[baddad457]

Well I better take those pistons out of my mustang and get bigger ones so I can get a true 10.5 to1

Yes, you'd better, cause with Windsor deck height pistons, they'll be slammed up against the bottom of the heads on a 9.2 deck block.

 

[flaminranger]

Oh ok I am wrong and you are right (not)and as you said 11 to 1 on pump gas with an Iron head no problem now that is funny.

 

[flaminranger]

http://stangnation.com/profile/?area=pictures;u=330;view=372
here is my mustang engine with a 1970 9.2 deck block

 

[baddad457]

Oh ok I am wrong and you are right (not)and as you said 11 to 1 on pump gas with an Iron head no problem now that is funny.

It's no problem with even iron heads and 93 octane pump premium. I've run a 10.25 to 1 390 on 89 octane. 93 will support more than you'd think. It's all in the cam and tune.

 

[baddad457]

http://stangnation.com/profile/?area=pictures;u=330;view=372
here is my mustang engine with a 1970 9.2 deck block

Ok, what's the pin height and rod length ?

 

[baddad457]

351W, pin height is 1.739, rods are 5.95, half the stroke is 1.75. Add all that up and you have the pistons sticking above a 9.2 deck block by more than a quarter inch. The only 9.2 deck Ford blocks in 1970 were Clevelands.. If you think you have a 1970 Windsor block, then it's the rarest Ford block in the world. And if you do, then how'd you bolt a Windsor intake on it ?

 

[baddad457]

You're confused about Windsor deck heights. Ford did increase the deck of these blocks in the mid 70's, but the increase was only .020, same thing they did with the 302 blocks at that time.

 

[fordmike1]

Those measly 2 bbl American Cleveland heads ? Yes, they're 400+ HP door stops. You'll never see that with stock, unported Windsor heads. (unless you huff it) The Cleveland will do it with a simple cam, intake and carb change. And those Ford Racing "Boss 351" blocks in the catalog ? Did you even bother to actually READ the specs ? Deck height is 9.2 (same as a Cleveland) main journals are also stock Cleveland dimensions. It's a hybrid Windsor/Cleveland block. And it's also offered in the Windsor deck (9.5) but again, with Cleveland mains.

2V heads with just a cam, intake & carb will not net you 400hp. You must be in the same dream world as them nutswinger GM LS guys.

Go ahead and bolt on a Cleveland timing chain & cover and water pump to that Boss block in the Ford racing catalog, oops they dont fit wrong block but all the Windsor things will fit . Yes it does have Cleveland sized mains but that dont make it a Cleveland and go ahead and bolt on a set of Cleveland heads on it and run them that still dont make it a Cleveland and to top it off the engine would leak water and over heat why? Becuse its NOT A CLEVELAND with water ports in the block to feed the water to the T-stat. It feed water thru the intake becuse its a Windsor design block. Remember Clevelands use a dry intake and Windsors use a wet intake or did you forget that??? The only thing that that 351 Boss block has in common with a Cleveland is, you could get it in a Cleveland deck height (and Windsor to) and Cleveland sized mains. The Cleveland crank will fit in the block but that is about it as it would take some machining to be able to run it as its a Windsor block. Alot of cranks made for the stroker 351w are cut for the Chevy 2.100 rods does that make them a chevy crank? NOT!!! The fact is the windsor block is superior design over the Cleveland block and that is why it continues to be cast and used in all forms of modern racing. The american Cleveland heads were and are junk and that is why so many people want the Aussi heads or they just go for the superior redesigned aftermarket Cleveland style heads .