Shape of things to come?


ExploreNW

Active member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
217
Reaction score
130
Points
43
Location
Mead, WA
Vehicle Year
1994
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Transmission
Manual
Tire Size
235/75/15
Therein lies the problem... 6.2 truck
Why not 6.2 swap then?

As for your sales contract:
"Without warranty or guarantee, express or implied. The buyer acknowledges the transmission of the vehicle is unsafe and agrees to release the seller of any and all liability pertaining to this. Buyer additionally agrees to repair it before returning it to service"
should keep you out of court if someone commits natural selection.
 


Rock Auto 5% Discount Code: 32B05A80BF19AF Expires: July 1st, 2020

stmitch

March 2011 STOTM Winner
MTOTM Winner
2011 Truck of The Year
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,815
Reaction score
139
Points
63
Location
Central Indiana
Vehicle Year
2000
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
3.0
Transmission
Manual
"We" "Voted" and we got CAFE standards in the 70s and we keep getting those standards tightened.

The "myth" that the USA has the strictest auto emissions in the world is not a myth. Manufacturers do anything they can to get their cars under that average that conveniently only applies to the USA. Go to Europe, look at their diesels. Their equivalent of our $500 burner Civic is a $500 burner Skoda or Citroen diesel. Stick, barebones emissions... Then go to Asia, India, Africa, South America, and have yourself a look under the hood. In many places like Mexico you won't even find catalytic converters as they aren't reuired.

Oh, and Cummins swaps? Ford sold the modernized 4BT (ISB170) in their F250s/350s from the factory in Brazil. Gets 25+ MPG in a 4x4 fullsize but doesn't make the "power and torque requirements of the American user" so we don't see them here.
"This air and water is too clean!"- Nobody ever

Europe promoted diesel for it's lower CO2 emissions, but they pretty much shot themselves in the foot and their air quality suffered a great deal as a result. That's the reason why many of the largest European cities have already reduced the amount of ICE vehicles allowed, and most have plans to completely ban them in the coming years. Do you want ot get ICEs banned? Because having loose emissions standards is how you get them banned. Go look at the air quality in Paris, or Beijing and you'll see it's a lot like LA in the 70s. It's a lot nicer living in a place where the air you breathe doesn't make you cough or wheeze, or cause you to get sick or shorten your life.

I get it when car guys complain about emissions standards, but having tight emissions standards isn't a bad thing at all. It makes ICEs more viable long term. We've got several 700+hp cars that come right from the showroom, with a warranty, that are cleaner than the 300hp versions of the same cars sold 20 years ago. You can go to any big 3 dealer and buy a diesel truck with ~1000ft-lbs, that tow over 30k and have a warranty, and they're world's cleaner than the 400 ft-lbs versions from 15 years ago. These are incredible times! Reality is that the only way we get to keep driving ICEs is to continue reducing emissions and fuel consumption. And they're not hurting performance at all.

What did Louis CK say, "Everything is amazing and nobody is happy"?
 
Last edited:

ExploreNW

Active member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
217
Reaction score
130
Points
43
Location
Mead, WA
Vehicle Year
1994
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Transmission
Manual
Tire Size
235/75/15
Europe promoted diesel for it's lower CO2 emissions, but they pretty much shot themselves in the foot and their air quality suffered a great deal as a result. That's the reason why many of the largest European cities have already reduced the amount of ICE vehicles allowed, and most have plans to completely ban them in the coming years. Do you want ot get ICEs banned? Because having loose emissions standards is how you get them banned. Go look at the air quality in Paris, or Beijing and you'll see it's a lot like LA in the 70s. It's a lot nicer living in a place where the air you breathe doesn't make you cough or wheeze, or cause you to get sick or shorten your life.
I get where you're coming from. I may **** with my motors and build power with them but I always run as much of the emissions equip as I can. For me, my dog, and everyone behind me.

That said. US air quality has improved dramatically since the 70s. When manufacturers come and tell me they cannot make or sell me the product I want (truck with a manual) because that one particular option pollutes too much, I will get very pissed at this. I'm not even asking for diesel at this point. If someone drops a brand-new 2020 Gas truck that shifts with a stick I'd be first in line with my banker ready to buy it. But no, they emit too much.?

You mention the modern diesel trucks at 1000+ ft-lb torque being cleaner than the models before. This is very true, especially the new DEF systems. Is that fully because of the auto trans? No... Or is the engine capable of meeting emissions, but the manufacturer unwilling to sell one that meets a greater fuel economy standard?

Strict Federal standards for new vehicles are fine. My state does not run emissions tests anymore so I'm fine. But for the love of all that is good, don't pee down my neck and tell me it's raining. What isn't fine is telling me that choosing what gear my rig is in is bad and that I can't do it. These are dark times for those that like to row their own. I will buy dirty, sooty, oil-slobbering old trucks with a manual transmission before I buy a new one without.
 

PetroleumJunkie412

2.9 Mafia
Supporting Member
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
5,244
Reaction score
3,843
Points
113
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle Year
1988
Make / Model
Ranger
Engine Size
2.9l Trinity
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
I get where you're coming from. I may **** with my motors and build power with them but I always run as much of the emissions equip as I can. For me, my dog, and everyone behind me.

That said. US air quality has improved dramatically since the 70s. When manufacturers come and tell me they cannot make or sell me the product I want (truck with a manual) because that one particular option pollutes too much, I will get very pissed at this. I'm not even asking for diesel at this point. If someone drops a brand-new 2020 Gas truck that shifts with a stick I'd be first in line with my banker ready to buy it. But no, they emit too much.?

You mention the modern diesel trucks at 1000+ ft-lb torque being cleaner than the models before. This is very true, especially the new DEF systems. Is that fully because of the auto trans? No... Or is the engine capable of meeting emissions, but the manufacturer unwilling to sell one that meets a greater fuel economy standard?

Strict Federal standards for new vehicles are fine. My state does not run emissions tests anymore so I'm fine. But for the love of all that is good, don't pee down my neck and tell me it's raining. What isn't fine is telling me that choosing what gear my rig is in is bad and that I can't do it. These are dark times for those that like to row their own. I will buy dirty, sooty, oil-slobbering old trucks with a manual transmission before I buy a new one without.
Next new one I buy is jeep or Toyota now. Manuals in both.

Frontier was going to be my choice, but manual
discontinued as of last week.
 

ExploreNW

Active member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
217
Reaction score
130
Points
43
Location
Mead, WA
Vehicle Year
1994
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Transmission
Manual
Tire Size
235/75/15
Next new one I buy is jeep or Toyota now. Manuals in both.
I'd drive a Taco. Wouldn't drive a fiat. Would not be caught dead driving a n***an though... Unrelated, did you hear about the CEO? Embezzled millions. He was smuggled him out of Japan in an audio equip box.
 

Dirtman

I pooped in the furnace
Supporting Member
EMT / Paramedic
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,071
Reaction score
5,899
Points
113
Location
Over there --->
Vehicle Year
2009
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Engine Size
466.63 teaspoons.
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Tire Size
So friggin big!
My credo
RUM HAM!!!
Take a look at the new up-coming 2020 Subaru Baja. Looks identical to the Ford...or does the Ford look like the Baja ?
Grumpaw
Doesnt Ford own part of Subaru or something? Kinda like the ford/Mazda thing?
 

stmitch

March 2011 STOTM Winner
MTOTM Winner
2011 Truck of The Year
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,815
Reaction score
139
Points
63
Location
Central Indiana
Vehicle Year
2000
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
3.0
Transmission
Manual
I get where you're coming from. I may **** with my motors and build power with them but I always run as much of the emissions equip as I can. For me, my dog, and everyone behind me.

That said. US air quality has improved dramatically since the 70s. When manufacturers come and tell me they cannot make or sell me the product I want (truck with a manual) because that one particular option pollutes too much, I will get very pissed at this. I'm not even asking for diesel at this point. If someone drops a brand-new 2020 Gas truck that shifts with a stick I'd be first in line with my banker ready to buy it. But no, they emit too much.?

You mention the modern diesel trucks at 1000+ ft-lb torque being cleaner than the models before. This is very true, especially the new DEF systems. Is that fully because of the auto trans? No... Or is the engine capable of meeting emissions, but the manufacturer unwilling to sell one that meets a greater fuel economy standard?

Strict Federal standards for new vehicles are fine. My state does not run emissions tests anymore so I'm fine. But for the love of all that is good, don't pee down my neck and tell me it's raining. What isn't fine is telling me that choosing what gear my rig is in is bad and that I can't do it. These are dark times for those that like to row their own. I will buy dirty, sooty, oil-slobbering old trucks with a manual transmission before I buy a new one without.
Did you take your banker to the dealer and buy a Ram HD with a Cummins and manual trans before last year? You could've. But you probably didn't, and neither did anybody else so they cancelled them. If there were a strong enough business case for developing/testing/certifying a manual trans, then you'd see them available. Emissions are harder to get right consistently with a manual, and manuals really don't get any better fuel economy than autos anymore. Still, if there were enough demand for manuals, you'd still see them. The biggest reason that you don't, is money. There's not enough demand for them, so it's not worth it to the automakers to invest the time and capital. The fuel economy difference is neglibile or non existent, so there's very little advantage to a manual anymore unless you just like the control. The number of people that want to shift their own gears, just because, is growing smaller every day. Especially in something like a big truck. You can still get a manual in a Tacoma, but only 5% of the buyers actually go that route, and the numbers are worse for some of their other manual offerings: https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/05/toyota-tells-us-exactly-how-many-manual-transmissions-it-sells-including-the-tacoma/


It costs an automaker tons of money to offer two kinds of transmissions in a vehicle. Like hundreds of millions of dollars. Time spent designing/testing/refining a trans/clutch system/shifter/PCM calibration, etc really makes an impact. You're probably paying a bunch of powertrain engineers 6 figures to do that stuff when they could be working on other things for the thousands of hours involved. Then, you have to test both transmissions for emissions (thousands of hours of development/cal tweaking and then official certification, all at several hundred $$ per hour), and you have to crash test both transmissions (A clutch pedal can really do some damage to a driver's lower body in an accident, potentially requiring alterations to the crash structure design). Then you have to manufacture/store a bunch more parts, and have more steps/machinery in the assembly process of both the driveline and the interior. That all costs money too. That's a ton of expense for a configuration that they're going to sell a couple thousand of per year with no additional profit over an auto trans to offset the development/manufacturing cost increase.

I have zero issue with a person doing their own manual conversion, or holding onto their older manual vehicle. Both are good options.
 
Last edited:

Grumpaw

Well-known member
Law Enforcement
U.S. Military - Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
1,015
Points
113
Location
Virginia
Vehicle Year
2009
Make / Model
Ford Ranger XL
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Total Lift
Stock
Total Drop
Stock
Tire Size
Stock 225/70/15
My credo
I don't count birthday's anymore...just happy to be looking down at the ground instead of looking up
No, Subaru is still only Subaru. They still sell every vehicle they make, and don't need any outside help to screw up what is a good company.
They did partner with Toyota 5-6 years ago while building the Brz and the Toyo version, the Scion FRS. That ended when Toyo stopped producing the Scion name.
Both were nearly identical with the Subi BRZ being a bit more upscale.
Grumpaw
 

stmitch

March 2011 STOTM Winner
MTOTM Winner
2011 Truck of The Year
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,815
Reaction score
139
Points
63
Location
Central Indiana
Vehicle Year
2000
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
3.0
Transmission
Manual
No, Subaru is still only Subaru. They still sell every vehicle they make, and don't need any outside help to screw up what is a good company.
They did partner with Toyota 5-6 years ago while building the Brz and the Toyo version, the Scion FRS. That ended when Toyo stopped producing the Scion name.
Both were nearly identical with the Subi BRZ being a bit more upscale.
Grumpaw
Overall, Subaru and Toyota are actually more involved now than they were in the past, with Toyota owning over 20% of Subaru as of last year:


When Scion went away, they just rebadged the FRS as a Toyota 86:

 

Dirtman

I pooped in the furnace
Supporting Member
EMT / Paramedic
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,071
Reaction score
5,899
Points
113
Location
Over there --->
Vehicle Year
2009
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Engine Size
466.63 teaspoons.
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Tire Size
So friggin big!
My credo
RUM HAM!!!
I only ask because around here there are a suspicious amount of Ford/Subura dealerships for some reason. What use to be "Ford lincoln Mercury" dealers are all of a sudden "Ford Subaru".
 

Ramcharger90

Well-known member
Article Contributor
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
1,758
Reaction score
749
Points
113
Location
N/A na
Vehicle Year
1990
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
306, Bcam,
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Im just gonna keep modified vehicles from now on. My Cammed 306 is my daily. And im probably gonna do a 53 F100 I haven't decided yet on a 5.2 vodoo or a 04 terminator swap. But even if I coyote swap it with a built manual ill divorce shaft it for 4x4 if I go that route. But again I dont need 4x4 we have other 4x4 vehicles like the Ram or the bmw (Awd)but im not buying anything new ever. Forget about it. I cant get what I want anyway in the USA.
 

Jim Oaks

Administrator
Administrator
Founder / Site Owner
Article Contributor
TRS Banner 2010-2011
TRS Banner 2012-2015
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Aug 2, 2000
Messages
10,235
Reaction score
2,340
Points
113
Location
Roanoke, Texas
Vehicle Year
1996 / 2019
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
6-inches
Tire Size
33x12.50x15
Really this thread should be a giant FU to Ford. To quote Enzo Ferrari.... You are not Henry Ford, You are Henry Ford the 2nd...
Actually, I don't think Ford would have gotten as far as he did without the Dodge Brothers, and Ford was struggling until he finally started listening to his son Edsel. From what I've seen and read about Henry Ford leaves me to think he may have been a real ----.
 

Ramcharger90

Well-known member
Article Contributor
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
1,758
Reaction score
749
Points
113
Location
N/A na
Vehicle Year
1990
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
306, Bcam,
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Actually, I don't think Ford would have gotten as far as he did without the Dodge Brothers, and Ford was struggling until he finally started listening to his son Edsel. From what I've seen and read about Henry Ford leaves me to think he may have been a real ----.
With out John and Horus Dodge, Henry Ford would have been on his knees at Cadillac still and the Ford motor company would have gone the way of the Yugo.

But thats still no excuse for Ford Motor Company's short sided view of loyal customer expectations. I have always bought Fords but old Dodges are my bread and butter. Not since 93 has there been a Dodge ive wanted besides Viper Challenger and Ram. Besides Fiat turned Dodge around. Not perfect same gripes I have against Ford.
 

PetroleumJunkie412

2.9 Mafia
Supporting Member
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
5,244
Reaction score
3,843
Points
113
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle Year
1988
Make / Model
Ranger
Engine Size
2.9l Trinity
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Fiat merger doesn't bother me all that much. Since the merger, not enough changed to merit concern for me.

Dodge/Chrysler still builds massive V8s with a manual behind them. Makes me happy, so, yup, I'm good with it.

Still waiting on that Dodge/Ferrari JV now that they're under the same roof, though...
 

Dirtman

I pooped in the furnace
Supporting Member
EMT / Paramedic
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,071
Reaction score
5,899
Points
113
Location
Over there --->
Vehicle Year
2009
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Engine Size
466.63 teaspoons.
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Tire Size
So friggin big!
My credo
RUM HAM!!!
From what I've seen and read about Henry Ford leaves me to think he may have been a real ----.
Well, being a nazi certainly doesn't help his case...
 


Top