New Differential or Rear End for heavy snow in 2wd

[rusty ol ranger]

I will still advocate for the BFGs. Snow, mud, anything has not been a issue for my open 2wd 3/4tons.

I literally had my 97 F250 buried to the hubs (just the back tires) and stood on it and the KO2s slung mud for what seemed like a mile and with the 460 singin i popped right on out.

Granted...i dont care about the yard. But its piece of mind. I swear by them.

 

[don4331]

My Ranger has BFG ATs; my daughter's B4000 has Cooper Discoverer M+Ss; trucks, tire are basically the same; I've had my license for >40 yrs, she just got her learners; we just had 10 cm of snow.

She and her mom will be at the mall; I'll still be in subdivision - that's the difference in the tires. The BFG's might come back into their own when snow gets deeper than sidewalls, but I don't drive much in snow that deep.

If I read correctly the OP has 2.3l; so a 7.5 LS is better - he doesn't need the extra torque capacity of the 8.8, and the couple lbs weight difference isn't worth it.

And swallow your pride for the winter and get the narrowest tire you can find - even if you have to give up some diameter - your Ranger isn't going to float, and doesn't have the weight of @rusty ol ranger's F250. 215/75R15s, the std 4x4 tire for the 1st decade of Rangers, usually takes you further in snow & ice. At least the stuff we get up here.

 

[19Walt93]

I like the Cooper Weathermasters best with the Discoverers second. I drove my 2011 Ranger 4x4 for 7 winters on the Goodyear SRA all seasons and did fine but I would have bought snows for a 2wd. I would have had to order a 2wd because we didn't stock one.

 

[DanielLiam]

Thanks all! I appreciate all the suggestions. I think I am going to hold off on doing a differential for now and get even more weight for the back and deal with chaining up. Also, I think I might just continue to save and try to find an affordable 4wd soon.

 

[RonD]

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but do not put the weight in the very back of the bed, put it above the axle
Any weight in the very back of bed will cause the back end to slide sideways much much easier, again its just Physics

 

[sgtsandman]

Thanks all! I appreciate all the suggestions. I think I am going to hold off on doing a differential for now and get even more weight for the back and deal with chaining up. Also, I think I might just continue to save and try to find an affordable 4wd soon.

Just keep in mind that 4X4 lets you go better. Stopping isn’t going to change. Steering will be better in certain situations.

Like off road driving, tires are best improvement you can do to a truck or an SUV. Axles help a lot but if you can’t grip, you can’t go, steer, or stop.

 

[MikeG]

IMO, a trac-loc(Ford brand) limited slip will help and you can swap out the whole axle so its just wrench work
3.73 or 4.10 would be fine with 30" tires, 4.10 might be a bit better if available

Limited slip just means if one wheel starts to spin faster than the other some of the power from that wheel is transferred to the other wheel
If both wheels have limited traction then both spin
So you will most likely still have to "chain-up" if traction in both sides/tracks of the road is poor

The benefit of 4WD, AND FWD, is that its much easier to PULL a weight up a hill that to push it, that's just the Laws of Physics
All factory 4WDs have an OPEN differential up front, as do FWD, it's just that PULL factor that makes either better
I.E. many with RWD will be able to reverse up a hill that they couldn't get up going forward, pulling the vehicle up the hill vs trying to push it up
Not an arguable point its just Physics

You certainly will be able to go farther with Limited slip, traction will decide how far that is

Huh?
Are you saying that the traction depends on the end of the vehicle that is driven? Or just the handling characteristics?

I would expect traction (friction) to be the downward force (weight/mass), times the contact patch of the tire, times the coefficient of friction - and that should not change by which end of the vehicle had the driven axle. Handling characteristics, yes, but traction?

Afraid I'm not following you.

 

[19Walt93]

Thanks all! I appreciate all the suggestions. I think I am going to hold off on doing a differential for now and get even more weight for the back and deal with chaining up. Also, I think I might just continue to save and try to find an affordable 4wd soon.

Having 4x4 is like having A/C, you don't need it until you have it and you won't want to be without it once you do. You still need 4 snows to be able to steer and stop.

 

[scotts90ranger]

I've driven in all sorts of snow with my '90, 4x4 is far and above better than just tires and the locker in back as said above, pulls the back. That aside if you are not changing the tire pressure for your adventures, give that a shot... you can be stuck as snot at 30psi in 4x4, air down to 10psi and drive out like nothing happened and the tires are glued to the ground... but then you need to air back up, get the $70 high volume 12V compressor from Harbor Freight, it will air up small tires fast, takes about 20 minutes to air up 35" tires from ~6psi to 25psi...

I don't think a limited slip would hurt anything either

and the old "when in doubt throttle out" does not work in snow unless you are already moving, if you are stuck and slip the tires more you just made ice under the tires and now you aren't going anywhere... the tire speed melts the snow and the temperature freezes it back up to the shape of the tire...

 

[RonD]

Huh?
Are you saying that the traction depends on the end of the vehicle that is driven? Or just the handling characteristics?

I would expect traction (friction) to be the downward force (weight/mass), times the contact patch of the tire, times the coefficient of friction - and that should not change by which end of the vehicle had the driven axle. Handling characteristics, yes, but traction?

Afraid I'm not following you.

Yes, traction/friction being equal in snow(or sand) having the "front wheels" as the drive wheels helps prevent snow from building up in front of the tires
If drive wheels are in the rear the front wheels tend to "dig in" causing loss of momentum
FWD and 4WD has the advantage because its Pulling the weight, lifting it up over the snow so less build up, this applies to level surfaces as well, as the "digging in" still happens and the loss of momentum
And then the RWD vehicle's rear will tend to slide sideways since its an "easier" direction than straight forward, because front wheels have too much resistance to roll over the build up

So not really a traction issue as much as momentum issue
Reversing up a hill in a RWD may work because you can maintain momentum that was lost when attempting to drive up the same hill going forward

Same can help in a FWD vehicle as well but for a different reason, FWD vehicles tend to be lighter in the rear
And when going uphill weight is transferred to the downhill wheels
So in a FWD vehicle you may "get to the top" by reversing up a hill, because the drive wheels now have more weight on them they may get a bit more traction, and the uphill wheels may be light enough to go over the snow, and not "dig in"
A lot of maybes, lol

Same happens in sand and mud, if you can prevent the front wheels from digging in you have a better chance of keeping momentum up

 

[Jim Oaks]

When I was a state Trooper, we switched to true snow tires for the winter on our Crown Vics. I worked an area with a lot of hills, and I could go pretty much everywhere in that car with snow tires and a limited slip.

 

[rusty ol ranger]

When I was a state Trooper, we switched to true snow tires for the winter on our Crown Vics. I worked an area with a lot of hills, and I could go pretty much everywhere in that car with snow tires and a limited slip.

Thats good cause the 99 Vic i had with the open diff and fat mustang tires would get stuck in its own shadow lol

 

[MikeG]

Yes, traction/friction being equal in snow(or sand) having the "front wheels" as the drive wheels helps prevent snow from building up in front of the tires
If drive wheels are in the rear the front wheels tend to "dig in" causing loss of momentum
FWD and 4WD has the advantage because its Pulling the weight, lifting it up over the snow so less build up, this applies to level surfaces as well, as the "digging in" still happens and the loss of momentum
And then the RWD vehicle's rear will tend to slide sideways since its an "easier" direction than straight forward, because front wheels have too much resistance to roll over the build up

So not really a traction issue as much as momentum issue
Reversing up a hill in a RWD may work because you can maintain momentum that was lost when attempting to drive up the same hill going forward

Same can help in a FWD vehicle as well but for a different reason, FWD vehicles tend to be lighter in the rear
And when going uphill weight is transferred to the downhill wheels
So in a FWD vehicle you may "get to the top" by reversing up a hill, because the drive wheels now have more weight on them they may get a bit more traction, and the uphill wheels may be light enough to go over the snow, and not "dig in"
A lot of maybes, lol

Same happens in sand and mud, if you can prevent the front wheels from digging in you have a better chance of keeping momentum up

Sand and mud, I agree that tires can end up pushing a lot of crap in front of them.... but that isn't going to be anywhere as near as much of an issue in snow. With 2wd, one set of tires is going to be pushing 'stuff' in front, regardless, so I really don't think that is the issue or relevant in the least. Drag is drag.

FWD cars have more weight over the drive wheels, that is going to equal more friction via the contact patch of the tires. Coefficient of friction x contact patch x downward force due to gravity. That's traction, period, doesn't change whether front or rear of car. Like you say basic physics...... more weight on the tire, or better friction (due to tread compound being appropriate) or more contact patch due to airing down. Yeah all of those will help no matter what direction you are going.

Think it's an old wive's tale that reversing a 2wd drive pickup will make it up a hill that it couldn't do going forward. If anything the situation gets slightly worse up an incline, as far as the weight distribution, trying to go up in reverse. Yeah you might be able to reverse your way out of getting stuck on fairly level ground, but that's because the tires already have a path, if they didn't dig in too bad when you got stuck. Only way to test is to do it WITHOUT driving in the 'tracks' made earlier. I've had to take multiple passes up a slope in both FWD and RWD, each time 'plowing' a bit more snow out of the way.

Also, any suspension 'squat' will work AGAINST you trying to back a RWD vehicle up a slope.

FWD typically 60% of the weight on the front tires. Empty pickups have very little weigh on the rear tires. That's the problem with rear wheel drive, not whether it is 'pushed' or 'pulled.' Vehicle frames are stiff enough and don't compress, the vehicle doesn't care, except that yeah the back end can go sideways on RWD vehicles if the rear end looses traction. By the way, FWD cars can kick out the back end too, if they lose lateral grip. Easier to control trying to back a RWD up a slope? Yeah probably, but it does not change the traction available.

FWD can get stuck if you run out of traction, been there, done that. All the 'pulling' vs 'pushing' doesn't do a bit of good, once the traction from the tires, is less than the force needed to move up an incline.

 

[RonD]

Add in rolling resistance and while traction stays the same forward momentum decreases as resistance goes up

Pull a toboggan up a hill or push a toboggan up a hill, same weight/same traction but one way is much easier, because there would be less resistance if front was being pulled up and over the snow

 

[MikeG]

Ok there's an eensy-weensy bit less resistance for the rear tires in SNOW, since they follow the tracks of the front tires..... Snow doesn't weight much and isn't hard to push out of the way.

But backing a RWD vehicle uphill puts LESS weight on the front wheels (which are now the driving axle) as well as less weight on the (front) driving axle due to suspension squat under acceleration.

At best, these factors are probably going to cancel each other out in snow, and be utterly lost in the statistical noise, because downward force on the driving tires, contact patch, and especially tread compound are going to mean orders of magnitude more.

Otherwise the highway department would put up signs telling us to back up steep hills if we were in empty RWD pickups....