My New House & Workshop

[don4331]

I'm going to have to pull some outlets and see if any have a red wire. I'm wondering if whoever did this wiring split the top and bottom outlet on to their own circuit?

I was thinking they had done that, but wasn't sure it met code - apparently it does. Note: Could also be used if you have 2 outlets in one box. i.e. Over the work bench where you want the grinder, the drill, the stereo and the fridge all plugged in.

The big caveat - both breakers need to be the same amp rating, otherwise you risk continually popping the lower rated breaker when you just have one side plugged in and if breaker isn't 15A, you need more than one outlet on the circuit.​

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Both of the 30A breakers should have 10 gauge wiring.

 

[Jim Oaks]

My Current And Proposed Electrical Layout:

I pulled all of the cover plates from the wall outlets and switches. None of them had a Red wire in them except for the 20A 250V outlets for the AC units.

All of the outlets except two had a single 12-2 Romex going down the wall into them.

• The outlet over the window in the Front Room has (2) 12-2 Romex. I'm guessing this is where the lit sign that was in the TV repair shop window use to plug in and is controlled by one of the wall switches.
• One of the outlets in the Front Room (lower blue square on the partial wall) has a 2nd 12-2 Romex going to the outlet next to it.

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The diagram above shows where all of the switches, outlets, and light fixtures are.

The brown square above the Rest Room is another propane wall heater, but this one has a 12-2 Romex going in to the top of it, and a thermostat on the wall. I will likely remove this wall heater. The other wall heater in the Front Room does not have Romex going to it. I'm going to ditch this wall heater in the Front Room and possibly add a small wood burner instead. Maybe.

You can see where I marked where I want to add a wall switch in the bathroom to work that light with the pull chain.

I've marked where I want to add outlets in the Mid Room with green boxes. I'll probably run the two on the wall off the one on the opposite side of the wall that ends that circuit. The other would be me switching the single outlet box under the Breaker Box to a larger bow with two outlets.

I've added a red box to indicate where I want a 220V outlet to go by the side door.

I've marked where I want to add outlets in the shop area with green boxes. One will be on it's own circuit for an air compressor to plug in to.

The diagram above shows how I want to reconfigure the lighting with LED tubes instead of the fluorescent.

Another note about the outlets. The conduit going up the wall from the outlet ends just above the ceiling drywall. It does not go in to a box. I'm guessing there's a junction box or boxes up there that distributes power to each 12-2 going to the outlets, since there's only on 12-2 at the outlet.

 

[ericbphoto]

My Current And Proposed Electrical Layout:

I pulled all of the cover plates from the wall outlets and switches. None of them had a Red wire in them except for the 20A 250V outlets for the AC units.

All of the outlets except two had a single 12-2 Romex going down the wall into them.

• The outlet over the window in the Front Room has (2) 12-2 Romex. I'm guessing this is where the lit sign that was in the TV repair shop window use to plug in and is controlled by one of the wall switches.
• One of the outlets in the Front Room (lower blue square on the partial wall) has a 2nd 12-2 Romex going to the outlet next to it.

View attachment 59806
​

The diagram above shows where all of the switches, outlets, and light fixtures are.

The brown square above the Rest Room is another propane wall heater, but this one has a 12-2 Romex going in to the top of it, and a thermostat on the wall. I will likely remove this wall heater. The other wall heater in the Front Room does not have Romex going to it. I'm going to ditch this wall heater in the Front Room and possibly add a small wood burner instead. Maybe.

You can see where I marked where I want to add a wall switch in the bathroom to work that light with the pull chain.

I've marked where I want to add outlets in the Mid Room with green boxes. I'll probably run the two on the wall off the one on the opposite side of the wall that ends that circuit. The other would be me switching the single outlet box under the Breaker Box to a larger bow with two outlets.

I've added a red box to indicate where I want a 220V outlet to go by the side door.

I've marked where I want to add outlets in the shop area with green boxes. One will be on it's own circuit for an air compressor to plug in to.

View attachment 59808​

The diagram above shows how I want to reconfigure the lighting with LED tubes instead of the fluorescent.

Another note about the outlets. The conduit going up the wall from the outlet ends just above the ceiling drywall. It does not go in to a box. I'm guessing there's a junction box or boxes up there that distributes power to each 12-2 going to the outlets, since there's only on 12-2 at the outlet.

Ill take a good look at this later this evening for you. Kinda busy at work at the moment. I believe you fid mention no inspections. But it should still meet code. The code isn’t there to generate money for government. It really is a safety standard and it outlines the MINIMUM safety requirements. Wish I was retired. I would come out and handle it for you.

 

[Jim Oaks]

I'm not saying I don't want it to be safe. I want to do it right. But if I can attach that ground cable to a rod and everything work properly, nobody's going to say a word about it. Maybe I should dig up what ever it's attached to. Since I can't extend the ground strap or have the rod out of the ground, maybe I can bring the ground up.

 

[Jim Oaks]

I'm still wondering if the outlets are wired similar to this some how.

 

[Jim Oaks]

The propane furnace between the Mid Room and Shop has a 12-2 Romex. I'm wondering if it takes a 12-3 and that's why the Romex coming down the left side of the breaker box and in to the bottom of it is wired up like a 12-3.

 

[franklin2]

I would not get into that mess above. I agree with what was mentioned, you first priority is to get rid of that box and put all new in. Reasons are;

1. That is a federal pacific box. Just google that, they had big lawsuits and are best thrown in the dump.

2. Even if you wanted to keep that box, you don't have a cover for it.

3. You want to add circuits. That box is not big enough.

4. Go to Lowe's or Home Depot. A new main breaker box is not that expensive. You could get a square D homeline box fairly cheap. And have room to spare for later on.

On the 12/3 for 115v circuits; You can run just one neutral and two hot wires. It saves on wire. But you have to be careful, the two hot wires sharing the neutral MUST BE ON OPPOSITE PHASES. You must pick the correct breakers that are on opposite phases, or just make sure they are side by side in the box.

 

[Jim Oaks]

I'm surely not about to use that box.

I can't install a new box and wire it up until I understand why it's wired the way it is, and how it needs to be properly wired.

 

[don4331]

@Jim Oaks:

You will note in your picture, you note the breaker on the left is a double pole breaker. And each of the red and black wires are attached to 2 outlets. That and using 12 gauge makes it to code for 20A breaker.

But I didn't think you had red line to all but the last outlet.​

@franklin2

Doesn't it need to be a double pole breaker?

Otherwise, if say the black line tripped, you might think the circuit is off, but in reality, the white would become hot if you offered an alternate to ground as the red line is still hot. Which makes it dangerous if not double pole.​

 

[ericbphoto]

You must pick the correct breakers that are on opposite phases, or just make sure they are side by side in the box.

And that needs to be supplied by a double pole breaker for safety. This works. I rarely do this. My preference is to have lots of receptacles. I think it's easier to just wire the normal way. It's actually less complicated and if you have to work on one of the circuits, you don't have to turn off both. Also, if a loose connection occurs in the neutral somewhere, you can end up with an unsafe condition and strange voltages supplied to downstream loads. The neutral, and it's connection to ground back at the meter or breaker panel is key to ensuring that 115 volts is always 115 volts.

 

[ericbphoto]

I'm surely not about to use that box.

I can't install a new box and wire it up until I understand why it's wired the way it is, and how it needs to be properly wired.

we're getting to that.

 

[ericbphoto]

The propane furnace between the Mid Room and Shop has a 12-2 Romex. I'm wondering if it takes a 12-3 and that's why the Romex coming down the left side of the breaker box and in to the bottom of it is wired up like a 12-3.

Not all 230 volt devices require a neutral connection. In those cases, the neutral wire in your romex is used as a hot wire. It should be marked with colored tape wherever exposed so that everyone knows it is being used as a hot wire. But that is often overlooked in residential wiring.

The electrons inside the wire do not care what color the insulation is. They just do what the laws of physics dictate.

 

[ericbphoto]

@Jim Oaks , Hey, Jim. I just printed out the lower drawing you posted earlier. Let me do some work on that tonight and tomorrow. I'll work on one or two scenarios for breaking up the circuits, organizing the breaker panel and some wiring diagrams to help you get it wired up. I can be your " @Rick W " for the wiring side of things.

I'm not sure what wiring book you posted an image from earlier. But, with that book, we can get you through this. So try to read and understand what's in there. You're off to a good start. Having a basic plan of what you want, as posted, is the best starting point.

 

[Rick W]

I am simply your humble servant

 

[Jim Oaks]

@Jim Oaks:

You will note in your picture, you note the breaker on the left is a double pole breaker. And each of the red and black wires are attached to 2 outlets. That and using 12 gauge makes it to code for 20A breaker.

None of those breakers are double pole. I just made them wide or narrow to correspond to what's in the box, and then posted a picture of the box under it for reference.