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My New House & Workshop


Jim Oaks

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At this point I will likely open the ceiling and rewire the outlets and light fixtures.
 


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Being you're running exposed conduit... when I did my garage I ran conduit up the wall and installed a box and outlet plugs near the ceiling in three places. below those I installed double boxes with a light switch and outlet plugs. That way I can plug lighted signs/clocks and a big oscillating fan high and no cords running down the wall. Between those I installed lower floor outlets. I have power high... medium and low heights all over my garage.
 

franklin2

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@Jim Oaks:

@franklin2

Doesn't it need to be a double pole breaker?
Otherwise, if say the black line tripped, you might think the circuit is off, but in reality, the white would become hot if you offered an alternate to ground as the red line is still hot. Which makes it dangerous if not double pole.​
The double pole breaker makes sense, but in practice I have never seen that done. Is it a newer code? I was working in a building that was just built about 5 years ago, and it did not have double pole breakers on the shared neutral circuits. It's just one of those things electricians have to look out for, never trust the neutral wires, treat them as hot wires.
 

ericbphoto

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The double pole breaker makes sense, but in practice I have never seen that done. Is it a newer code? I was working in a building that was just built about 5 years ago, and it did not have double pole breakers on the shared neutral circuits. It's just one of those things electricians have to look out for, never trust the neutral wires, treat them as hot wires.
Here it is, with reference to the National Electrical Code. I first got my Master Electrician license around 1991 or 92. This requirement has been there longer than that. This is from a website that specializes in answering these questions.

What are the requirements for multiwire branch circuits? The National Electrical Code (NEC) mandates the simultaneous disconnect of multiwire branch circuits that supply electricity to more than one device on the same circuit. To be more specific, NEC® 210.4(B) Disconnecting Means states, “Each multiwire branch circuit shall be provided with a means that will simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors at the point where the branch circuit originates.”

The "simultaneously disconnect " part is what requires the double pole breaker.
 

Jim Oaks

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I fixed the diagrams to show the light fixture in the Mid Room.




This next diagram shows what I'm thinking for a layout, and where I want to add exterior lights.

59868

NOTE: Not to exact scale.

Exterior Lighting:


@ericbphoto had asked me about exterior lighting, so this diagram is meant to show where I want to add lights. Each light will also need a switch. I plan to use the light over the double doors for the front room and just update the fixture. There is Romex coming out of the back of the building. I'm guessing it was for a light, but it's kind of long. I'm not sure if I'm going to add a light back there or not. I want to eventually have a small patio/ fire pit area back there though.

Barn Doors:

The side of the building along the top of the drawings is an alley. The building currently has (2) 6-foot double door openings. The plan is to widen the double door in the front room from 6-foot to 7-foot. This would allow me to pull a car in there and park it. For the work shop, I'm thinking about opening that door way from 6-foot to 8-foot. There's a gas meter and sewer clean out / inspection pipe in the area outside of the door way. With a sliding barn door I wouldn't be hitting a door on the gas meter or having to drive around the end of the 4-foot door. These door frames are commercial style frames that resemble steel tubing. The front door is the same style of frame. I'm replacing that with a steel pre-hung exterior door. I will use that frame to widen the frame for the front room.

There is a row of cinder block that sits on top of both 6-foot door frames. That block will likely fall out when the frames are removed, so I'll have to build a support to hold the ceiling / rafter up when I remove the frame. I'm concerned that the top plate might not support the rafters in this area on it's one. Then I'll either reinstall the block or just put a wood header in above the metal frame to fill the gap.

For the rear 6-foot door I'm undecided if I want to widen that frame and do the same thing, or build a new frame from lumber with a header to support that top plate. I'm kind of leaning towards doing that in wood, but I need to do some research on how to build it to to be sire it supports the 8-foot span.
 

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I would recommend either adding more lighting over your welding area and workbench or relocating the planned lighting.

As it is, your head will be casting a shadow on your work. I would put a light down low over the bench to help to see what you are doing the best.
 

ericbphoto

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Ok. While I was absorbed in my thoughts, you updated a little bit. What you will see below can be modified “on-the-fly” to suit actual conditions or changes you decide to make. But between this and the book you have plus asking more questions as needed, you have what you need to get started. You can use either PVC or EMT conduit to protect wires coming down the wall to switches or outlets. Technically, there should be a cable clamp where the romex enters the top of the conduit. I would argue that a staple within 12” should be sufficient strain relief in lieu of a clamp at those locations since your work is not getting inspected. Do not pound staples too tight anywhere. It is easy to pinch the cable tight enough to break the insulation and short the conductors together. I have earned money repairing that for people. With the staple in place, you should be able to wiggle the wire slightly under it.

You can arrange your circuits in the breaker panel any way you want. I just came up with a plan so I could identify circuits on the drawings. You can also divide the outlets among the circuits differently if you want. There are ways to do it that will use less cable. When it comes to outlets in a shop, I alternate circuits going around the room. That way, if I’m using a power-hungry tool and need another tool working at the same location, two different circuits are available near each other without having to stretch an extension cord across the room. I put your air compressor on it’s own circuit because that is usually a power-hungry device and you don’t want it interrupting progress when you are in the middle of doing something.

On the lighting drawing, I show two junction boxes. You should probably use three. Circuit #8 for shop lights will have 4 cables going into that box. If you are using 12 gauge wire, that will require putting 4 wires into each wire nut. That is a lot. It will require the largest wire nuts (usually dark blue). That also takes a lot of room in the junction box and would require an extension ring. Code specifies what you can put in a box. But in all practicality, that gets to be a lot. It would be better to put two of those cables in one junction box and two in another junction box nearby with a jumper cable running between the boxes. Much easier that way. I can explain that better later if you don’t follow me.

Anywhere you have wires in a junction box, switch box or outlet box, you need to leave them long enough to work with comfortably. Code specifies that they extend 6” out past the front of the box. It is difficult to work with short wires.

If you want a wiring drawing for outlets and other equipment like the one I did for lighting, Just say so. I’ll make one up. But that can become a very “busy” and almost confusing drawing.

Jim shop light wires.jpg


Jim shop eqpmnt crkt nums.jpg


jims panel snip.jpg
 

ericbphoto

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I know you said you won’t be inspected. That is fine and it relieves a lot of pressure. However, you may eventually sell the property and need a home inspection at that time. You don’t want to have to do a lot of re-work at that time due to cutting corners now. A few things to remember about inspectors and inspections.

Each inspector has his own strengths, weaknesses and favorite items to look for. Their training and experience vary widely. Sometimes, If they see their favorite items all in good shape and things look generally good, they don’t dig deeper looking at stuff. Good workmanship and making sure the really important things are taken care of goes a long way to satisfying an inspector and they are more likely to let little things slide and even avoid getting out their flashlight to look in the attic. I have a buddy who says he always left some “low hanging fruit” on purpose because the inspector could easily find that and be satisfied that he caught everything. I’ve seen that happen. But never depended on it personally.
 

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Not sure how code it is but I have converted my built in lights to outlets and have just been adding the $30 4' LED lights around my shack so I can actually adjust where light is at on the fly. Pretty much I basically have 3 around my truck with one four footer right inside the door aimed at the engine bay of a backed in vehicle and a LED worklight aimed in from the other side. Garage door is above the said open engine bay so I had to work around that and it took some trial and error to get it dialed in.

Nice thing is there are no bulbs or ballasts to fuss over. If one dies (one has died so far) you unplug it, trash it and get another one.
 

ericbphoto

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Not sure how code it is but I have converted my built in lights to outlets and have just been adding the $30 4' LED lights around my shack so I can actually adjust where light is at on the fly. Pretty much I basically have 3 around my truck with one four footer right inside the door aimed at the engine bay of a backed in vehicle and a LED worklight aimed in from the other side. Garage door is above the said open engine bay so I had to work around that and it took some trial and error to get it dialed in.

Nice thing is there are no bulbs or ballasts to fuss over. If one dies (one has died so far) you unplug it, trash it and get another one.
Like this?

20210512_165330.jpg
 

85_Ranger4x4

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Yeah but the garage is framed with cedar posts, no flush mounted outlets and the ceiling isn't as fancy. The ones I have are the roughly 8" wide ones from Menards, they have more of a spread pattern than some which is critical with my low ceiling.

It's come a long ways from when I got the place and it had two incandecent light bulbs.

The garage need rewired... its on my to do list but truth be told I would really like to replace it with a bigger shop.
 

Uncle Gump

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This is what I did and was trying to describe... I'm no electrician... so don't flame me to bad.

Probably doesn't meet code but it survived a couple home inspections and has worked for the 10 years I've lived here.

electrical.jpg


The switch controls the upper outlets...
 

Shran

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I clicked this thread today and the first thing that came up was the pic of that breaker box. :oops: Wow.

Jim are you SURE there are no permits/inspections/etc? I would be absolutely shocked if there was not at the very least a state permit or inspection required... even we have that. And regardless you want it to meet national electric code... the "right way." That box would have NEVER passed. Never. The fact that there is plastic sheathed Romex there indicates to me that it's not really very old either.

When I rewired my kitchen I found that my junction box (actually an old fuse box that had been repurposed when the house was added onto) was just about that bad. Not only did it LOOK like a mess, there were live wires cut off and rolled up inside walls, nailed through, outlets sheetrocked over, etc. All sorts of bad shit. So I feel ya there. I had the walls open anyway and rewired the whole frickin thing and boy am I glad I did.
 

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I tried the outlet thing for the lights once. When the job was done I thought all that extra wire balled up in the ceiling was ugly. I won't do it again.

On the circuits, I have often tried to discern when a garage becomes a shop and what is required as far as GFCI protection. I know the code says a garage should be GFCI protected. Not sure how many of his circuits need to be GFCI protected, but whichever ones do, that does away with the shared neutrals. You can't have shared neutrals on a circuit that uses GFCI breakers. I guess you could if you used GFCI receptacles at each outlet like he did in the kitchen.
 

Shran

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The guy who inspected my detached building told me that every circuit with an outlet on it has to be GFCI protected. I think it's kinda stupid... GFCIs have their place but not there I feel and it's annoying when they quit working. I just put one first in line on every circuit and used little pigtails from there... basically the hot is always connected... to keep the rest of the circuit alive if it trips, totally defeating the purpose of them but oddly enough it passed inspection.
 

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