Drywall help/advice needed

[shane96ranger]

It sounds like an issue with your mud to me. My Brother does Sheetrock all the time, and he told me the cheap stuff is inconsistent in it's moisture content. I only buy Sheetrock brand mud now. It is a lot easier to work with.

It also could be caused by the tape not being applied correctly. I had it happen on some stuff I did, and we were able to get it back off. I only used water to hold it on (paper tape) and it looked great until it dried. FWIW, I hate paper tape and only use it in corners now. Mesh is the way to go for flat joints.

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[PanamaExpat]

As a general contractor we fly a lot of drywall. I wouldn't sleep at night if I installed any product that was less than 1/2 inch. My guys are trained in what the consistency of the mud HAS to be if you don't want call backs. Call backs cost us money so we try to avoid them as often as possible. The typical tank of retail mud is way to heavy so we have to add water and mix thoroughly. It also takes a minimum of three steps to correctly apply the mud and tape. Anyone that is done in a day or two is short cutting and you are bound to have problems. I am looking at the job we did when I built my offices some 5 years ago. Not one crack, split or sag to be seen anywhere. I hate to say it but it sounds like your installer/contractor either is a greenhorn or a scamster. I have followed this thread all the way through and it doesn't sound like a substrate issue as much as an installation issue.

 

[superdave1984]

I had a guy come look at it today who has been doing drywall for 40 years.
1. He said the plywood should've come down from the ceiling first.
2. The drywall on the ceiling is run the wrong direction. He said the long edge should be across the joists not parallel to them so the butt joints are on the joist. He also said on a ceiling you need cross braces in between the joists to tie them together as well. (I can't tell if it has any because of the insulation) He said since this was a carport there probably aren't any.
3. He said 1/4 is too thin for a ceiling. Said it isn't strong enough to hold its own weight and eventually will sag like the dickens unless he put a ton of screws in it.
4. He said the mesh tape is, was, and always will be, a bad idea for anything but repairs.
5. He said the walls should be fine now that the mesh is gone. (there is one crack now in the wall right at the corner of the closet door and he said that isn't unusual for that location to crack.)

He's working up an estimate for me.

It also takes a minimum of three steps to correctly apply the mud and tape. Anyone that is done in a day or two is short cutting and you are bound to have problems.

This part is what worries me. I have had people tell me different things about applying paper tape. The method I agree with (and I have never done drywall before) is that you apply a thin layer of mud, put your paper in and smooth it down with a knife so that the tape sticks to the mud and it oozes out the sides a bit. Scrape that off with the knife. Let that dry and apply coat 2 the next day. Let that dry overnight and sand it smooth. Apply a 3rd coat if needed.

What this guy did was apply mud, apply tape, mud over tape. Then the next day put on another coat of mud, next day came and sanded. To me that sounds like too much moisture on the tape and it will break down easily and not do its job.

 

[Mac]

I'd sure go with the guy with 40 years experience. Did my garage 25 years ago using that method, last application was with a 8" or 10" wide paste blade (whatever it's called?). Never had a problem. I might have even used the mesh tape.
Dave

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Sounds like you found a knowledgeable person to look at things.... I would agree with everything said.

I've always gooped on the mud, full strength or near it, pretty well filling the joint then lay the tape out and use a 6" knife to firmly bed it. That's the way I was taught back in tech school (where if your joint wasn't perfect, the teacher would walk by and rip the tape right back out of the entire joint). If it's drying good sometimes I'll take the 6" knife and put a skim over it, but that's it until the next day. I want it good and dry before I build up. Then I do successive coats, thinning the mud as required. I do a pass with the 6", then the 8", then the 12". If it doesn't look like it's built up enough to feather out with the 12", then I do an extra pass with the 8" (every time I do it, I wish I had a 10" knife). I bought quality stuff back when I went to tech school. A lot of kids bought cheap stuff. I bought stainless knives with oversized rubber handles, a stainless 12" pan and a belt holder for the pan and it'll hold a roll or two of tape. I got laughed at, but the pan holder is great when you need both hands free for a minute, especially being up on a ladder or the like. And when I'm done, sanding is absolutely minimal, that quality 12" blade does a NICE job if the mud is properly thinned. I use the 6" knife to scrape any ridges between passes as well.

 

[shane96ranger]

4. He said the mesh tape is, was, and always will be, a bad idea for anything but repairs.

This really surprises me. I was up at the hospital today for an appointment and watched a bunch of professional guys using the exact same mesh tape I use. Never had a single issue with it.

I wonder if it's a climate thing?

 

[PanamaExpat]

Sounds like you found a knowledgeable person to look at things.... I would agree with everything said.

I've always gooped on the mud, full strength or near it, pretty well filling the joint then lay the tape out and use a 6" knife to firmly bed it. That's the way I was taught back in tech school (where if your joint wasn't perfect, the teacher would walk by and rip the tape right back out of the entire joint). If it's drying good sometimes I'll take the 6" knife and put a skim over it, but that's it until the next day. I want it good and dry before I build up. Then I do successive coats, thinning the mud as required. I do a pass with the 6", then the 8", then the 12". If it doesn't look like it's built up enough to feather out with the 12", then I do an extra pass with the 8" (every time I do it, I wish I had a 10" knife). I bought quality stuff back when I went to tech school. A lot of kids bought cheap stuff. I bought stainless knives with oversized rubber handles, a stainless 12" pan and a belt holder for the pan and it'll hold a roll or two of tape. I got laughed at, but the pan holder is great when you need both hands free for a minute, especially being up on a ladder or the like. And when I'm done, sanding is absolutely minimal, that quality 12" blade does a NICE job if the mud is properly thinned. I use the 6" knife to scrape any ridges between passes as well.

EXACTLY.... need a job? However we thin our mud a bit right off the bat. The product we buy here has a lot of air in it and it needs well stirred and maybe a pint (500ml) per 5 gallons seems to help it blend well. Final skim is thinned a bit more. A good mud man makes the sanders work a load easier. You can always tell when the mudders don't like someone on the sanding crew.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

This really surprises me. I was up at the hospital today for an appointment and watched a bunch of professional guys using the exact same mesh tape I use. Never had a single issue with it.

I wonder if it's a climate thing?

Part of it is preference. I suspect part is climate. But the thing I hate about the mesh tape is the effort required to produce a smooth joint. You really have to build it up and sanding is usually required for a good job. Of course, some guys don't worry about sanding because a lot of the time mudders are like hangers, they get paid by how much they get done, not by how good of a job they can do.

EXACTLY.... need a job? However we thin our mud a bit right off the bat. The product we buy here has a lot of air in it and it needs well stirred and maybe a pint (500ml) per 5 gallons seems to help it blend well. Final skim is thinned a bit more. A good mud man makes the sanders work a load easier. You can always tell when the mudders don't like someone on the sanding crew.

lol, I'd like to get back to doing stuff on my own and stuff I enjoy, but I'm not sure I want to move to Panama.

I usually buy the "lite" mud which does have a good bit of air in it. For bedding the tape, I'll usually stir it a bit to work out some of the air in the pan, but I like it thick for bedding the tape. After that I thin it as required for a nice skim. Like you, final pass is thinned the most, helps prevent air in the mix and makes it easier to work a 12" knife with. I hate sanding. I'd rather make the effort with the knife and mud work and just have minor sanding rather than spend a day making tons of dust.

 

[shane96ranger]

Part of it is preference. I suspect part is climate. But the thing I hate about the mesh tape is the effort required to produce a smooth joint. You really have to build it up and sanding is usually required for a good job. Of course, some guys don't worry about sanding because a lot of the time mudders are like hangers, they get paid by how much they get done, not by how good of a job they can do.



lol, I'd like to get back to doing stuff on my own and stuff I enjoy, but I'm not sure I want to move to Panama.

I usually buy the "lite" mud which does have a good bit of air in it. For bedding the tape, I'll usually stir it a bit to work out some of the air in the pan, but I like it thick for bedding the tape. After that I thin it as required for a nice skim. Like you, final pass is thinned the most, helps prevent air in the mix and makes it easier to work a 12" knife with. I hate sanding. I'd rather make the effort with the knife and mud work and just have minor sanding rather than spend a day making tons of dust.

Going wide is what makes it look perfect. I have an 8", 10", and 12" knife. I'm not that good at it, but I've done some decent stuff. What I mean by that is, I'm too damn much of a perfectionist, and it takes me forever before I'm satisfied. I would no way do my entire house. A room, I'm good with though. My Brother is really good at it. He does about anything construction wise with the exception of electrical, and that's one of my strong points. So between the two of us, we can do some damage.

Funny thing is, my BIL also owns and operates a construction business. He's who gave me the mesh tape. He also gave me some really sweet corner bead that is metal strips in paper tape. That's the slickest cornering I've ever used.

 

[shane96ranger]

One thing I think we can all agree on is 1/4" Sheetrock is not what you want to use. I would only use it in a purpose mentioned earlier, and that is to go on top of a textured wall that would take too long to fix. I have one of said walls in my daughters room. The horses ass textured it because he was bad at finish work. I think this camper will probably tear the old stuff out though and start fresh.

 

[ZMan]

^^I used that inside corner bead on my kitchen that I'm currently remodeling, really made doing my whole ceiling a hell of a lot easier...not that it was easy. I'm buying the heavy shit in a bucket, haven't thinned it down or nothing, was that a mistake? Maybe, but I do body work for a living so I'm used to sanding lol, although I didn't do too too bad on getting it smooth, just have some pinholes in it, especially where I mudded over previously painted walls.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

The only thing I've seen 1/4" used for is curved walls or ceilings. And then it's double layer.

Richard

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Going wide is what makes it look perfect. I have an 8", 10", and 12" knife. I'm not that good at it, but I've done some decent stuff. What I mean by that is, I'm too damn much of a perfectionist, and it takes me forever before I'm satisfied. I would no way do my entire house. A room, I'm good with though. My Brother is really good at it. He does about anything construction wise with the exception of electrical, and that's one of my strong points. So between the two of us, we can do some damage.

Funny thing is, my BIL also owns and operates a construction business. He's who gave me the mesh tape. He also gave me some really sweet corner bead that is metal strips in paper tape. That's the slickest cornering I've ever used.

lol, yea, I like it to be perfect too. The more I've done I've found I've picked up a little speed, but it'd take me awhile to do anything more than a room. I don't mind doing electrical but I'm not big on doing plumbing or HVAC work, everything else is fair game for me.

Never tried that corner bead stuff, always used paper tape and after mudding it in, I'd finish it off with a corner tool.

^^I used that inside corner bead on my kitchen that I'm currently remodeling, really made doing my whole ceiling a hell of a lot easier...not that it was easy. I'm buying the heavy shit in a bucket, haven't thinned it down or nothing, was that a mistake? Maybe, but I do body work for a living so I'm used to sanding lol, although I didn't do too too bad on getting it smooth, just have some pinholes in it, especially where I mudded over previously painted walls.

The biggest thing with not thinning down for after the initial tape set is that it tends to be harder to work with and has a real tendency to leave pinholes. It's not that it's exactly wrong to use it full strength, it just makes a smoother finish with less effort.

 

[shane96ranger]

I used the corner bead tape I was talking about on outer corners in my bathroom. Inner I still used regular paper. It beats the piss out if nailing the old school stuff in place and uses a lot less mud.

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[lil_Blue_Ford]

I used the corner bead tape I was talking about on outer corners in my bathroom. Inner I still used regular paper. It beats the piss out if nailing the old school stuff in place and uses a lot less mud.

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I'll have to keep that in mind, thanks!