2.3L ('83-'97) Crank, no start at -20°

[blitz67]

I have a 97 2wd 2.3 with 213k miles. It starts fine except for when it gets damn cold (-20° roughly). It will turn over fine and seems to try and fire on at least one cylinder.
I am thinking it is ignition related. The battery is good. The spark plugs are good. I'm thinking the coil packs and might as well replace the plug wires.
Just looking for some other suggestions that would be the issue. Well other than the damn cold weather (also going to put a block heater in also to help)

 

[RonD]

Welcome to TRS

First thing
Gasoline can not be ignited by a spark, despite what you see in the movies, lol
Only gasoline VAPOR can be ignited by a spark

You know how in the summer gasoline has a strong smell, and in the winter no smell at all, that's the Vapor
So warmer gas has more vapor, colder gas less vapor

For a cold engine to start it needs about 30% gasoline vapor in the cylinder, otherwise it just "pops" once in awhile
This is where Compression matters, compression warms up the gasoline and the cylinders
But cold gasoline and cold engine still doesn't get to 30% vapor, this is what the Choke was/is for
Choke in this case means adding more gasoline
(choke plate on carb restricted air flow into the carb so more gasoline was sucked in from the Jets, with fuel injection the computer adds more gasoline based on engine temp)

Say cold gas is 5% vapor, after compression heating its 15%, but still not enough to start cold engine
But if you add twice as much gasoline, Choke, you get to 30% and engine starts

But there are limits, very cold gasoline has almost 0% vapor, and too much Choke(gasoline) makes spark plugs too wet to fire(good hot spark)
And if engine is older then compression will be lower, especially when cold, so it can't vaporize(warm up) the cold gasoline as well

Couple of things to do
Quick Start, Ether in a spray can, ether is a vapor at very cold temps and is quite ignitable by a spark
Pull off Power Brake booster hose or PCV Valve hose and spray some in to intake, put hose back on
Start engine, it will fire right up and that should get cylinders hot enough to vaporize the cold gasoline as it comes in, even if engine stalls right after starting
No it does not hurt the engine, have read that MYTH for many many years

Block heater, keeps engine warm enough to raise gasoline vapor to 30% for cold start, after a couple of cranks

Pre-heat engine, without adding gasoline, by cranking it over
On fuel injected engines you can turn off fuel injectors hold holding the gas pedal down all the way BEFORE activating the starter motor
Its called the "Clear Flooded Engine" routine
Turn on key
Press gas pedal down to the floor and hold it down all the way
Crank engine over for 10 to 15 seconds
Release gas pedal and now try to start engine
If it doesn't start up right away, repeat

You are trying to heat up the cylinders using compression and friction without wetting down the spark plugs

 

[blitz67]

Ron,
Thanks for the help. Yes I knew about the vapor of gas. Just was wondering if the coil packs could be an issue. The starting issue is actually new as of last winter. I haven't had any trouble starting the ranger in the cold temps of winter (-20° or more) until last winter.
I grow up in North Dakota and lived in Wyoming for 25+yrs, so I kind of know COLD weather.
The ranger was acquired without a block heater which at this point is the cheaper fix but with the miles, the coil packs might be a good repair also?

 

[RonD]

I wouldn't think coil pack since there are 3 separate coils in the Pack, but possible the overall voltage is weaker, or spark plug wires are older which causes weaker spark
Extreme cold(or hot) conditions brings out any slight flaws in vehicle systems

 

[blitz67]

Yes it does. Winter officially started 5 days ago and I'm already tired of it. We've received the whole season's average amount already and there's 3 months to go.
I went into where I work late this morning, put the battery in, checked the temp which was above -10° and it fired right up. I had pulled the battery just because. It's a good yellow top optima but I had been cranking on the starter for a little while so I figured I'd just bring it in.

 

[franklin2]

I would think any vehicle would have to be in tip top shape to start in -20 temps. A engine with 213k original miles is not going to be in top condition, even though it runs fine in warmer weather.

I have a 1994 Honda Accord with 248k on it, and with our "mild" winters in Va I can tell as the years go by it takes more cranking to start. If it got below zero here I bet it would not fire off.

 

[blitz67]

I would think any vehicle would have to be in tip top shape to start in -20 temps. A engine with 213k original miles is not going to be in top condition, even though it runs fine in warmer weather.

I have a 1994 Honda Accord with 248k on it, and with our "mild" winters in Va I can tell as the years go by it takes more cranking to start. If it got below zero here I bet it would not fire off.

Definitely right. Like I said, it started this issue in January when we NORMALLY get the -20°+ temps. I'm going to get a block heater and change out the coil packs (just to see if there's any improvement in general plus starting)

 

[oldgeek]

Welcome to TRS

First thing
Gasoline can not be ignited by a spark, despite what you see in the movies, lol
Only gasoline VAPOR can be ignited by a spark

You know how in the summer gasoline has a strong smell, and in the winter no smell at all, that's the Vapor
So warmer gas has more vapor, colder gas less vapor

For a cold engine to start it needs about 30% gasoline vapor in the cylinder, otherwise it just "pops" once in awhile
This is where Compression matters, compression warms up the gasoline and the cylinders
But cold gasoline and cold engine still doesn't get to 30% vapor, this is what the Choke was/is for
Choke in this case means adding more gasoline
(choke plate on carb restricted air flow into the carb so more gasoline was sucked in from the Jets, with fuel injection the computer adds more gasoline based on engine temp)

Say cold gas is 5% vapor, after compression heating its 15%, but still not enough to start cold engine
But if you add twice as much gasoline, Choke, you get to 30% and engine starts

But there are limits, very cold gasoline has almost 0% vapor, and too much Choke(gasoline) makes spark plugs too wet to fire(good hot spark)
And if engine is older then compression will be lower, especially when cold, so it can't vaporize(warm up) the cold gasoline as well

Couple of things to do
Quick Start, Ether in a spray can, ether is a vapor at very cold temps and is quite ignitable by a spark
Pull off Power Brake booster hose or PCV Valve hose and spray some in to intake, put hose back on
Start engine, it will fire right up and that should get cylinders hot enough to vaporize the cold gasoline as it comes in, even if engine stalls right after starting
No it does not hurt the engine, have read that MYTH for many many years

Block heater, keeps engine warm enough to raise gasoline vapor to 30% for cold start, after a couple of cranks

Pre-heat engine, without adding gasoline, by cranking it over
On fuel injected engines you can turn off fuel injectors hold holding the gas pedal down all the way BEFORE activating the starter motor
Its called the "Clear Flooded Engine" routine
Turn on key
Press gas pedal down to the floor and hold it down all the way
Crank engine over for 10 to 15 seconds
Release gas pedal and now try to start engine
If it doesn't start up right away, repeat

You are trying to heat up the cylinders using compression and friction without wetting down the spark plugs

This coincides with what I was reading that letting a cold engine idle to warm up is damaging. Being that cold gasoline doesn't vaporize, the liquid gas washes away the oil on the cylinder walls. It's best to start and let idle for a minute at most to make sure oil is circulating, then drive gently to warm the engine up, as that is the quickest way to get the engine warm enough to vaporize the gas.

 

[franklin2]

This coincides with what I was reading that letting a cold engine idle to warm up is damaging. Being that cold gasoline doesn't vaporize, the liquid gas washes away the oil on the cylinder walls. It's best to start and let idle for a minute at most to make sure oil is circulating, then drive gently to warm the engine up, as that is the quickest way to get the engine warm enough to vaporize the gas.

Not as much of a problem as it was on the old carbed and throttle body engines. The multiport fuel injected engines run a "dry" manifold with just air in it, so much less of a problem with the fuel dropping out of vapor. I am guessing that is part of the reason in the old days you were doing good getting over 100k on a engine, where now 200k seems easily achievable on the newer fuel injected engines.

 

[RonD]

Gasoline has a "boiling point" at about 150degF, which is why older vehicles could get "Vapor lock" in their metal fuel lines near an exhaust pipe
Boiling point is when a liquid is hot enough to turn to vapor, like water starts to turn to a vapor at 212degF, bubbles of vapor form where water is at/above 212degF(bottom of the pot, lol)

Cylinder temps are at 900+ degF after firing, so there could be no liquid fuel in a running engines cylinders to wash oil off

Long Cranking on a cold engine can wash oil off, but after startup that wouldn't be an issue
Although I have read that myth many times before
So long idle to warm up running engine, is fine, i.e. Remote Start

 

[oldgeek]

Cylinder temps are at 900+ degF after firing, so there could be no liquid fuel in a running engines cylinders to wash oil off

After using a 2500-3000° torch, 3/4" diameter, and that a constant flame, I know it takes a bit to heat up metal, depending on mass, to 212°. So, how much of the heat dissipates to the surrounding mass before the chamber reaches 150° to vaporize gasoline upon entry? The thinking is, as the fuel is pulled in, it remains a liquid until the chamber is hot enough to vaporize it upon entry.

This is a thought experiment for me. Stephen Ciatti is the one saying this. Probably others too. https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-idling-your-car-in-the-morning-is-doing-to-your-engine-and-its-not-good-2016-1

Now he has a PhD in mechanical engineering and has worked with ICE for a while. But, constantly working with designs from engineers, I know how there can be a disparity between what an engineer thinks and what is reality.

 

[bilbo]

This coincides with what I was reading that letting a cold engine idle to warm up is damaging. Being that cold gasoline doesn't vaporize, the liquid gas washes away the oil on the cylinder walls. It's best to start and let idle for a minute at most to make sure oil is circulating, then drive gently to warm the engine up, as that is the quickest way to get the engine warm enough to vaporize the gas.

Engine damage or not, when it's that cold I let it warm up. Not doing so meant not being able to see as ice crystals blew all over my face from the dash vents and the windows all fogged/frosted, and most importantly it was much more comfortable for me haha! They have more engines in the junkyard. No way to warm the transmission without driving though so shifting was interesting sometimes. What I really needed was a heated garage.

My wife had a mid-90s Aerostar that wouldn't start in negative temps if it was not plugged in. I tried all the usual tune up items and it still wouldn't start in the cold. I figured it was trying to tell me something and accepted defeat. Maybe yours is too?

Something I don't miss about ND winters is the Ranger's accelerator cable that would freeze after a blizzard. The choke would set fine and then when the engine ran for a bit it's like the snow/frost would melt a little and freeze in the cable housing, keeping throttle spring from closing the throttle. For whatever reason I always left it on high idle to back out of the driveway and then drove off. A block away at the first stop sign I'd push the clutch in and the engine would wind up to 5k and I'd shut it down and push back to the driveway to grab another car.

 

[RonD]

V6 at 800 RPM means each cylinder is firing at 2 times a second, 3 times a second at 1,000rpm the normal cold idle
The metal in the cylinder and piston top get that 900+ degF instantly as cylinder fires, metal is a good conductor of heat but it can't dissipate it that fast, lol, which is why it takes 5 to 8min to get coolant warming up

I think they forgot to "carry the 1" in their math calculations

Yes, driving a vehicle after cold start will warm it up faster, engine load produces more heat that the 900+degF, up to 2,000+ degF under load
Also doesn't hurt anything to do that and will get Choke to turn off faster the faster coolant gets above 140degF

But question was if idling cold engine hurt anything, its does not, for sure, EFI or Carb, both use the same gasoline and both use the same cylinder temp warm up

A spray of ether gets cold gasoline engine to start and usually stay running because cylinder temps warm up instantly and enough for gasoline to be partially vaporized, 30%, as it enters the cylinder and is compressed

 

[Shran]

My 4 cylinder truck is an absolute bear to get started once the temp dips down to around zero or below. Crank and crank and crank and crank... usually I have to continue cranking once it "fires" until it sounds like it's sort of running, then all is well. Have drained the battery a couple times playing that game.

Need to put a block heater in it.

 

[blitz67]

Well I have narrowed the problem down. After reading another post on the forum and having similar issues after it started, I have ordered an ICM (of course, after I had already ordered the coil packs and plug wires which will be here tomorrow ).

I really can't complain. It has been a very reliable pickup for many years and has taught many people how to drive a manual transmission, hahaha. Spend a little bit on it is better than the 1000s I have spent on my big (F250 and F350) pickups. No it wasn't diesel related other than upgrades (which is what the F250 7.3 is) but maintenance repairs. .