Coils or control arms

[chazzone]

I'm planning to drop my '98 Ranger 2" front and rear. I'm looking at DJM lower control arms or 2" drop coils.
I'm interested in better handling.
Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on which would be the better option?
Thanks,

-zz

 

[doorgunner]

I'm guessing 2" lowering coils would be twice as easy and 3 times a cheap to do...............

(the slightly stiffer drop coils would give better handling....along with the lower center of gravity)

 

[chazzone]

Thanks DeeGee.

I called DJM yesterday, and had a discussion with one of their guys. I fully expected him to want to sell me the lower control arms $260 each), but I was surprised when he insisted that the coils would be the way to go.

He said that the arms are really meant to be used with the coils for a 4" total drop, and not intended to be used for a stand alone 2" drop.

The good news is that I can take the extra $400 and buy shocks and the rest of the components I'm going to want to replace when I do this.

It looks like I'm going to go with MOOG upper control arms and new bushings and ball joints in the lowers.

Also gonna look for a 4wd sway bar for the front, and swap in the BII sway bar I've had laying in the steel pile.

Brian at Illusive is all about the Doetsch Nitro Slammer shocks, so that's where I'm headed right now, but I'd like to hear from more guys who've used them. The whole point of lowering to to improve handling, so if anyone is putting their lowered Ranger through the twisties and using these shocks, let me know how you like them.

-zz

 

[chazzone]

Alright...I'm in up to my nuts now. Just bought a set of Roush coils. I need the weather to break so I can start looking for sheet metal...

 

[upnsmoke]

I can't tell you anything about shocks for the 98 and up trucks, but low speed damping is key for performance driving, and you typically won't get that with a cheap shock. I'm not actually saying anything about the Doetsch shocks specifically, just speaking generally. I would be curious what spring rate the Roush coils are that you are getting. If they are stiffer than stock you could make the truck push, which is likely undesirable (it certainly would be to me) since trucks tend to be front heavy and push a little anyway. Your best bet in that case would be to adjust the balance of the truck back toward oversteer with a larger rear sway bar or a smaller one in front. A day at an autocross would be a great indicator of what handling characteristics your truck has and what adjustments you may want to make.

 

[chazzone]

I can't tell you anything about shocks for the 98 and up trucks, but low speed damping is key for performance driving, and you typically won't get that with a cheap shock. I'm not actually saying anything about the Doetsch shocks specifically, just speaking generally. I would be curious what spring rate the Roush coils are that you are getting. If they are stiffer than stock you could make the truck push, which is likely undesirable (it certainly would be to me) since trucks tend to be front heavy and push a little anyway. Your best bet in that case would be to adjust the balance of the truck back toward oversteer with a larger rear sway bar or a smaller one in front. A day at an autocross would be a great indicator of what handling characteristics your truck has and what adjustments you may want to make.

I'm a big fan of oversteer. I grew up working on and driving big cars from the 60's and 70's, as well as Mustangs and long before they called it drifting, we used to call it "dirt tracking".

As far as I can tell, Roush doesn't make these springs anymore, but knowing Roush, I expect that they did a fair amount of engineering on these. That's why I jumped on them when I found them available. I don't know anything about DJM, other than Brian from Illusive is a big supporter of this and other sites, and promotes them pretty heavily.

I have an email inquiry in to Roush, and hope to get some feedback and maybe recommendations from them.

I've been driving this little truck for a couple of years, so I have a handle on how she rolls, as is. I have a Bronco II rear sway bar, and I know that will make a huge difference.

I'll also be looking for a set of torque bars out fo a V-8 Explorer to add to the mix.

I'd like to be able to put this all together at one time, and you're right, I'm not trying to go cheap. That's why I putting this out there now, so I can have it nailed down.

Do you have a shock you'd recommend for this application? I'd appreciate your input.

Thanks,

 

[upnsmoke]

It sounds like you have a good idea of what you want. Drifting, oversteer, dirt tracking, call it what you want, it's all fun. Unfortunately I can't recommend specific shocks for your truck. I haven't had a 98 or newer Ranger yet. I do like the idea of the short long arm. It sounds like it has great handling potential. What's the deal with the torque bars?

 

[chazzone]

It sounds like you have a good idea of what you want. Drifting, oversteer, dirt tracking, call it what you want, it's all fun. Unfortunately I can't recommend specific shocks for your truck. I haven't had a 98 or newer Ranger yet. I do like the idea of the short long arm. It sounds like it has great handling potential. What's the deal with the torque bars?

The torque bars are traction bars that Ford put on V-8 Exploders. They mount on top of the spring pack and run up toward the front.

I know that you wont hear too many people complain that the 4.0 has too much torque, but I'd be one of those guys. I don't seem to be able to keep the rear wheels planted at times.
I thought about increasing the tire diameter to 29", but I think I'd rather keep the grunt. I don't know, it'll be a work in progress.
I don't really want to go to a 16" wheel, since I think that a 15" will still give me the most tire options at the best price.
It's got 14's, and new wheels and tires are not in the budget right now, so I have to make the best of what I've got, and if I can get a handle on wheel hop/axle wrap, then I'm good for now.

 

[upnsmoke]

I wonder if the Expo traction bars would work for you, being as Explorers are spring under. Some sort of traction bars would almost have to help. Spring over is said to get worse wheel hop than spring under. My pop's 83 302 Ranger was spring under and didn't wheel hop too bad, but he had to re-arch the springs a lot to get the ride height he wanted, and they got too stiff for his liking.

I assume you some sort of street performance oriented tires. Last I looked at them there was a lot more selection for 15s and 17s than for 16s. Some used 17" take offs from a Mustang could probably be found pretty cheap, but for the most part, as you say, tires will be cheaper for 15s.

 

[chazzone]

I wonder if the Expo traction bars would work for you, being as Explorers are spring under. Some sort of traction bars would almost have to help. Spring over is said to get worse wheel hop than spring under. My pop's 83 302 Ranger was spring under and didn't wheel hop too bad, but he had to re-arch the springs a lot to get the ride height he wanted, and they got too stiff for his liking.

I assume you some sort of street performance oriented tires. Last I looked at them there was a lot more selection for 15s and 17s than for 16s. Some used 17" take offs from a Mustang could probably be found pretty cheap, but for the most part, as you say, tires will be cheaper for 15s.

You may be right about the Expo bars. I'll have to look at them when I find them to make sure.

I've been looking at tires, and even though they aren't on the menu right away, I may have to go to a 17" wheel. It looks like most of the really trick performance tires are available in the 17" size and fewer are available for 15". But again, we'll have to see what comes along at the time.

Right now, I have to find some sheet metal. They keep promising good weather, but the rain and cold keeps holding on.

I've decided that I wouldn't mind a newer front treatement, so who knows how that will end up. I like the 2004's so there's an option. I'll probably take what ever I cnn find from 98 on up. I might try mixing components. I like the '98 headlight and markers, and I'd like to integrate them into the newer hood/grill style. It certainly looks doable.

Tonight, my son told me that the rear brakes on his Bimmer were making grinding noises, so it looks like I'll have to fizz into that before I do anything else.

It's always something...

 

[upnsmoke]

17" tires may be a bit more expensive, but being popular also means more used ones and closeout/ sale type deals might come along. Sounds like you have some fun plans for the bodywork. Are you going to make something clean and nice, or more like a race track beater?

I am all to familiar with one project interfering with another. A few weeks ago I put new brake lines in my truck, put my 8.8 back in, and rebuilt my carburetor. It is really fun and working well judging by the brief test drives I have had it out on, and I was just sorting some minor details to make it completely road worthy, when my pop took his Civic over a curb sideways (fooling around on wet tarmac) a couple weeks ago, bending some rear suspension components and shredding a crossmember. Luckily he was okay, but it took me a week and a half of cutting, hammering, welding, junk yard hunting for parts, and measuring to put it all back together and align it. I do all my work in the street in front of my house, and there is only one spot level enough to safely put a car on jacks. Having to move my truck to another spot and postpone working on it sucked when it was so close to being driveable. I got tired of looking looking at the bottom of that Civic some days, but knowing I could get back to my truck when I was done kept me motivated. When you keep working, you get it all done eventually. At least, that's what I told myself while I was laying on a floor mat in the mud using a door panel to keep some of the rain off me while I pulled a hub and wheel bearing out of a junkyard Civic.

 

[chazzone]

17" tires may be a bit more expensive, but being popular also means more used ones and closeout/ sale type deals might come along. Sounds like you have some fun plans for the bodywork. Are you going to make something clean and nice, or more like a race track beater?

I am all to familiar with one project interfering with another. A few weeks ago I put new brake lines in my truck, put my 8.8 back in, and rebuilt my carburetor. It is really fun and working well judging by the brief test drives I have had it out on, and I was just sorting some minor details to make it completely road worthy, when my pop took his Civic over a curb sideways (fooling around on wet tarmac) a couple weeks ago, bending some rear suspension components and shredding a crossmember. Luckily he was okay, but it took me a week and a half of cutting, hammering, welding, junk yard hunting for parts, and measuring to put it all back together and align it. I do all my work in the street in front of my house, and there is only one spot level enough to safely put a car on jacks. Having to move my truck to another spot and postpone working on it sucked when it was so close to being driveable. I got tired of looking looking at the bottom of that Civic some days, but knowing I could get back to my truck when I was done kept me motivated. When you keep working, you get it all done eventually. At least, that's what I told myself while I was laying on a floor mat in the mud using a door panel to keep some of the rain off me while I pulled a hub and wheel bearing out of a junkyard Civic.

I want it to be as nice as it was before. No duct tape... Besides, looking good is most of the fun. I have an old '85 Mustang hood scoop that I've always wanted to put on the BII, but depending on the hood I get, it might find its way on to the Ranger. I'm not a big fan of plastic, though and the goal is a nice lean performer.

Working in the street sucks. A couple of years ago, I put a new fuel pump in my buddy's Taurus wagon on a city street. It never got above 5 degrees all day.

I dug into the Beemer today. It's going to need a rear caliper, and none of the local shops had, or could even get one within a week. I found a closeout on Rock Auto, and bought a couple of spares. I've seen this happen with other BMW parts. Even though there are still a lot of cars that use that caliper, next year there will only be a couple around, and they will be very expensive, if you can even find one. Gotta plan ahead.

I need a welder. I have a couple of friends who have welders and plasma cutters, and they always say that I'm welcome to use them, but they're both about 45 minutes away, and it's not exactly convenient. I do stone work, and that's not exactly booming right now, so it's hard to justify the expense. But I'm going to have to finally break down and get something of my own.

I'd like to think that I'd eventually get done, but then I wake up and look at all the new things I have to add to the list. Gotta keep at it though.

Looks like good weather tomorrow, hopefully I can hit the yards and come home with new stuff to do.

 

[upnsmoke]

5 degrees? Talk about getting a chill. Fortunately for me, it rarely gets that cold here, though I still complain at anything much below 45. Rockauto is almost always worth checking. I try to be discerning about what brand parts I buy, and I have found a lot of things there that I have had trouble locating otherwise, at least at a reasonable price. A distributor for my 4cyl remanufactured by Autoline, Motorcraft ball joints, etc. A welder is really handy to have. We have a small MIG Lincoln that is good for stuff from sheet metal to 1/8 inch, and we have used it on thicker stuff with some success. I am not that good with it yet, but my pop is and he has been teaching me as we go along. We have fixed all kinds of things from lawnmower decks to work bench frames with it.

You should take some pictures if you can to track the progress of your 98, or at least have a before and after. It could be really cool when it is done, especially with clean bodywork and paint.

 

[chazzone]

I've already got a few pics taken of ths project, and as soon as I get the parts, I'll start a build thread. I figure that if I'm doing the 2" drop/shocks, shackle flip, probably upper control arms, and I'll take care of a few potential rust areas. It might be worth someone else taking a look. I've done a couple of write ups in the past, Nothing like the Magnum Opus that is the Door Gunner, but I hope they're informative.

 

[chazzone]

Hit Pic a Part and Pull a Part today. They're the 2 biggest yards in Indy. No sheet metal, but I did pick up a very nice set of sways, so me parts for the Bimmer, and a factory radio/CD player that turns out not to work.
Not a total loss, but all the newer Rangers were stripped bare to the bones.
This may take a while...