Wheel refinishing

[ForgedCrank]

I put all the wheels on saw horses to spray, I think I just used two cans of clear to do all 4 wheels... for the saw horses I put them over the ends so they were at like a 45 degree angle to paint...

I've figured out how I'm going to do it I think.
I'm going to use 4x4x4 cutoffs and cut them into a v-block for each wheel with the miter saw for them to rest on while I'm spraying. This way since i will not be painting the the airspace surface at the same time (I'm going to pre-paint the airspace surface with epoxy primer and let it cure before I do the finish spraying on the outside), I can just rotate the wheels as I go along and then I can also handle them the same way when moving them inside for curing. this will allow me to refinish the rim edges while I'm spraying. All I'm left concerned about is the spray gun potentially blowing something enough to push it off the block, but I can easily steady them with mo other hand while i'm spraying to avoid that.
One question thought... should I leave the bead seats bare aluminum? Or should I spray it with epoxy also? I'm concerned about when an old tire gets taken off, the epoxy might fuse to the rubber bead over time and peel that off with it? I'm not sure which way to go with this one.

 

[ForgedCrank]

Spray em flat and put em 5 gallon buckets. ? That was my plan right now.

I called the place you mentioned regarding the "chrome" paint. They directed me to a reseller who wants 150 bucks for an 8oz bottle of the stuff, and it is already reduced. I also found it on Amazon (House of Kolor Mc00-Hp Mirror Relective Effect 8 Oz Kosmic Chrome).
Did you already get yours? If you got it cheaper, where did you get it? I just can't bring myself to spend 300 bucks for a pint of paint for Ranger wheels.
Also, do any of you know of a decent mini touch-up gun that is affordable? I won't be able to use my Binks or Eastwood one for the color, I need a small one that I can afford to buy and most likely only ever use once. I'm skeptical of the Harbor Freight ones for this purpose.

 

[Brain75]

I said a few messages back that I went (or am going) with rattle can on the GM as a test. Following TCP/Restoration Shop/House of Kolor SYSTEM but not using their supplies.

Here's the narrowed down choices that I read reviews, watched youtube reviews, and considered:

Krylon Premium Metallic Original Chrome​

Rustoleum Bright Coat Metallic Finish​

Spaz Stix Ultimate Mirror Chrome​

Krylon Short Cuts​

VHT Quick Coat Silver Chrome​

Touch Up Express​

Scratch Wizard​

Seymor Chrome Aluminum​

Duplicolor Instant Chrome​

ERA​

Krylon Fusion​

Martha Stewart Craft​

Rustoleum Mirror Effect (inside of glass)​

Some of the youtube reviews I watched included Care Care, Auto Square, Auto Gear, and hpiguys. That last one (hpiguys) does models, like 1/18th scale plastic things made by ERTL.

Anyhow based off all those, I chose Duplicolor Instant Chrome 11oz. It is an enamel and is not UV resistant by itself so will sun fade, but the clear (TCP Global's EC2100) product says it provides UV protection for the basecoat under it.

I also said I would be about 2 weeks before I could report back... we are on day 9 or 10 since I said that... give me time padawan.

I finished 3 coats of basecoat and 3 coats of clear on the whole truck, but today was just too damn cold to paint. I want one more coat of clear as I wasn't terribly heavy handed with my coats.

I absolutely have to finish the truck and remove it from the paint area before I go painting any gloss black or chrome in the same room, do not want any off color overspray/drift/aerosol mist contaminating the truck 5 minutes after I finish painting it.

The forecast for tomorrow is too cold to paint, but Saturday it is supposed to be above 65 degrees (and with a space heater I can push my little shop up a few degrees above that). Weather holding, I should have the truck out of the paint shop by Monday and be able to start on wheels. (Either way Sat or Sun, I am not pulling it out of the shop that night - it will wait till the next day.)

Given the number of folks who all concur that Harbor Fright guys are identical to mine (probably are, they are all made in china), I would say buy the HF if you can indeed find a $5 coupon (I have never seen em).

 

[Brain75]

Heck harbor freight has a 30 day guarantee on just about everything, ask if it covers the paint guns, keep the receipt... Mix small batches, worst case you are out a few bucks of paint in a small batch and the headache of having to exchange and paint the 4th wheel by itself kinda deal.

 

[Brain75]

Based on Lefty's recommendation, did you look into eastwood's "chrome" options?

 

[ForgedCrank]

Based on Lefty's recommendation, did you look into eastwood's "chrome" options?

Sorry, I thought you were testing with the other colors, but had already gotten the HOK stuff, I misunderstood.
I did spend time on the ph with Eastwood, but their "chrome", or at least the one that she pointed me to got a lot of negative feedback based on google forum searches. Their other suff is just aluminum "look" type stuff that is just silver paint. I did order their epoxy primer though along with their 2K clear. right now I cannot decide on the "chrome" or the gray for the back-side of the wheels. Paint shops are less than customer friendly when you are calling as an idiot. the last one told me straight up "if you don't know what you want I cant help you". All I asked was which paints I could use over the epoxy primer and be urethane based. Eastwood is the most helpful, but they just don't seem to have the colors I'm after.
I think tomorrow I'm going to call back home to the paint shops (small town guys), they are a lot more friendly and helpful usually. maybe they can steer me.
I have been looking over websites and YT videos regarding the chrome look, but so far nothing that appears acceptable. Maybe I'm just impatient. Not unlike yourself, I'm running out of temperature. I have to do this outside and warm weather is quickly waning so I'm gettin desperate. My real goal is to get new tires on this Ranger before cold weather hits because these old ones will be like sled skis on the cold pavement. I may have to just park the Ranger til spring rolls around, I doubt I'm going to get this done at this pace.. i started way too late.

 

[Brain75]

I had real good conversations with the guys at TCP, but have not called a lot of other shops. I guess TCP owns sherwin williams too. Sherwin williams LARGE stores still have automotive ability - they just don't brag about it... but since they are owned by TCP, my guess is they are mixing the same stuff.

In addition to a Sherwin might try a large NAPA, larger ones apparently mix paint.

Napa around here is 2x the price as 'zone/oreilly/advanced auto so I wont go to them for anything.

I figured out that if you look at the google listing you can tell if a sherwin or a napa does auto paint, neither within 100 miles of me does (I am in nowhere's ville).

I found that 99% of people trying to get "chrome" (and publishing youtube videos or reviews on products) are just painting down the "chrome" paint and then unhappy - seems that nobody is doing the 4 layer, black,clear,chrome,clear.... but you know what it makes sense, that is how they make mirrors - behind that silver mirroring on the glass is a layer of glossy black. I am just grateful the TCP guys were patient enough with a n00b like me to explain it and now I can go out and try it.

Because 99% of people are "doing it wrong" (just 1 layer of chrome), I have taken to ignoring reviews to a certain extent... sure you will get bad reviews if the user doesn't follow directions or uses bad technique. Heck the bedliner I hunted and hunted for all of em had bad reviews that started with "I washed the bed in the car wash, and then painted..." well duh, you didn't scuff it up, use a degreaser, oil remover etc - treat it just like it was the exterior body panel. Good adhesion starts with good prep, and we all know 99% of paint is prep.

 

[ForgedCrank]

I had real good conversations with the guys at TCP, but have not called a lot of other shops. I guess TCP owns sherwin williams too. Sherwin williams LARGE stores still have automotive ability - they just don't brag about it... but since they are owned by TCP, my guess is they are mixing the same stuff.

In addition to a Sherwin might try a large NAPA, larger ones apparently mix paint.

Napa around here is 2x the price as 'zone/oreilly/advanced auto so I wont go to them for anything.

I figured out that if you look at the google listing you can tell if a sherwin or a napa does auto paint, neither within 100 miles of me does (I am in nowhere's ville).

I found that 99% of people trying to get "chrome" (and publishing youtube videos or reviews on products) are just painting down the "chrome" paint and then unhappy - seems that nobody is doing the 4 layer, black,clear,chrome,clear.... but you know what it makes sense, that is how they make mirrors - behind that silver mirroring on the glass is a layer of glossy black. I am just grateful the TCP guys were patient enough with a n00b like me to explain it and now I can go out and try it.

Because 99% of people are "doing it wrong" (just 1 layer of chrome), I have taken to ignoring reviews to a certain extent... sure you will get bad reviews if the user doesn't follow directions or uses bad technique. Heck the bedliner I hunted and hunted for all of em had bad reviews that started with "I washed the bed in the car wash, and then painted..." well duh, you didn't scuff it up, use a degreaser, oil remover etc - treat it just like it was the exterior body panel. Good adhesion starts with good prep, and we all know 99% of paint is prep.

I do already have the gloss black so that is part of my plan. i just have to get a little bit more reducer for it. I get what you are saying... that is why my initial approach to this was to figure out the process that the professional wheel shops use. With this sort of work, it's not just a saying, prep and process really are 95% of the job and will determine the quality. But the shops, a lot of them on single color jobs just use powder coating, something I'm not in the mood for right now. My skepticism is in that the formula that I know of (the one you described and TCP did as well) was to use the black gloss base, and then their 20 dollar per ounce stuff. I could almost... ALMOST accept that, but it's already reduced so you don't even get enough to finish 2 wheels. 8oz is 8oz, ready to spray. They guy even told me you can't spray it unless you use a 1.0 nozzle because it's so thin. My full size guns are also going to be a problem I believe. I need a decent touch-up gun for this if I want to get it even.
anyway... I'll keep reading. Maybe i'll just have to try and see what happens. if it turns out terrible, I can have the tires stripped off and try again next summer i dunno.

 

[Brain75]

BTW, here is my complete plan for the GM wheels.
A) prep/clean/degrease/de-oil/etc - same cleaning system (4 step) as the truck
B) paint gloss black
... wait till the next day(why because the clear says right on it wait 8 hours after applying base coat... also see Post #14 in this thread)
C) paint clear
... wait an hour (the clear TDS says dry's to touch/handle in 10-15 minutes, polish/buff in 8 hours, "fully cure" deliverable to customer in 24, I figure an hour flash off ought to be extra safe)
D) paint chrome
... wait till the next day (again clear says 8 hours)
E) paint clear
...wait at least 30 minutes (and even at that handle by the tire area, not the face)
F) bake in the house oven at the lowest "proofing/bread rise" temperature (about 140 degrees) 1 wheel at a time for 30 minutes per wheel.

using the house oven... yes I can get away with it, I just have be extra extra nice to everyone and then make cookies afterwards maybe air out the house if there is much smell. (wouldn't hurt to give em $20 to go to the movies or somethin )

why bake in the oven - google around, you will find lots of people swear by it, not just because it speeds up drying, but it toughens up a cheap rattle can enamel into a hard shell that lasts a lot longer.

 

[Brain75]

... 20 dollar per ounce stuff. I could almost... ALMOST accept that, but it's already reduced so you don't even get enough to finish 2 wheels....

I didn't even consider it for a second, the guy on TCP's tech line gave me the full name of the product and I googled it while talking to him and knew before he finished that I was gonna find something else - hence all the time spent reading reviews of rattle can chrome.


The clencher was hpiguys, he took a methodical and systematic approach to testing, he just did not do the system as TCP said. He did paint on raw styrene (plastic spoons) versus paint OVER primer on styrene (plastic spoons). And he demonstrated with his overhead lights when appropriate how reflective it is. I'd just like to see it done with the full system adding the black/clear/clear.


Here's the vid (remember everytime he says "paint a car" he's thinking paint a plastic 1/18th scale model car):

 

[Brain75]

Something else I thought of that I am going to throw out. I had my '48's new wheels powder coated with spectrum paints/ppg 2 coats, one base one clear. I then took them home and waited exactly ONE week before I took em to the tire shop. The tire guys ruined the clear on the first rim immediately, they peeled it up using the power mounter. They hand mounted the other 3 and apologized their asses off. After which I learned that you really should wait 60 days before waxing or subjecting paint to any other "manual forces" (like tire mounting). So one of the other reasons I am baking is to toughen it up so the tire shop doesn't hose me again. AND I have the luxury of waiting quite a while to mount my new shoes - I have good meat on all the wheels on the ground now, just got to have these ready before the existing rubber wears out. (on the '07 ranger I am getting pressure to do as soon as possible, but I'm just going to use the excuse of cold weather for as long as I can.)

 

[ForgedCrank]

Hmm.... I don't know if I can pull off the oven caper. A couple of decades back I used to race WKA kart (go karts). I used to run the torn down engine parts through the dishwasher when wife wasn't home. It's race engine stuff... not really dirty, right? No big deal... Well, she caught me one day and it near caused a damned divorcee. The tongue lashings raged for days. I dunno if I can get by with that again, even though it sounds like a good idea. At low (oven) temps it would speed up the out-gassing process considerably

 

[pjtoledo]

a small note on prepping wheels.
on some styles the edges around the valve stem is a sharp angle. since paint likes to thin out on edges I ground some metal off to round the
transition between wheel surface and stem opening.
not the actual hole, just the edge above it.

 

[Brain75]

Well if you are still waiting on me, I think I am skunked till spring.... Paint says minimum temperature is 60 and max humidity is 60%.... It's been 100% humidity since it started snow/rain/sleeting 3 days ago and the forecast for sunday (when humidity finally drops) is a dead high of 60.

I'm still going to try to squeeze the paint work in... but it's going to be really hit and miss... one hour window to do black, wait 5 days till the next window for clear, wait 5 more days etc.

 

[ForgedCrank]

Well if you are still waiting on me, I think I am skunked till spring.... Paint says minimum temperature is 60 and max humidity is 60%.... It's been 100% humidity since it started snow/rain/sleeting 3 days ago and the forecast for sunday (when humidity finally drops) is a dead high of 60.


I'm still going to try to squeeze the paint work in... but it's going to be really hit and miss... one hour window to do black, wait 5 days till the next window for clear, wait 5 more days etc.

Well, I've abandoned the "chrome look" process for no other reason that the ridiculous cost of the HOK mystik chrome. they want 160 bucks for 8oz, and that is already reduced. I'd need 2 of those cans to do the job. No freekin way... this is a daily beater.
I talked to 4 different custom shops about the process and they say it works very well. BUT, it only works with that HOK stuff, there is something special about it that I won't claim to know... it is somewhat transparent so you get the effect with the gloss black and clear underneath for depth. I'm going with a metallic silver/grey PPG that looks similar to the Ford "Radio Gray", but with some flake in it. So since i'm going with regular color, the whole gloss black base and all that won't do anything except make more layers, it'll have zero effect on the cover color.
SO.... I'm really close to having the wheel surface prepped. I'm hoping to start spraying primer tomorrow. temps are in the low 60's for the next 5 days with some rain in between. The issue is that with the temps, I'm going to have to do all of this, then when I'm done and it has cured enough to handle safely, they are going to have to be smuggled into the basement to outgas for a few weeks. I may even setup a space heater in the utility area and block off the furnace vents in there to help a little. I'm hoping i can pull it off without any notable odor so I don't get busted. I'll be sleeping in the shop if I stink up the house. I'll start taking pictures as soon as I get the surface prep done. As of now, this is where i'm at, and the photos don't really do it justice. I've gotten all of the scabby areas blended very well. I just have to do the center sections (couldn't do it on my Russian axle lathe due to lugs in the way). I also need to scuff up the "deer print" areas a but more with some 320.
I really really wanted to try that process as you explained it, and I might till one day. but for now, I just have to get these looking decent and sealed up good to protect them so I can get some decent tires. It kills me because I don't like making concessions for utility reasons... but here I am.