running a little hot in idle

[Bob Ayers]

From Prestone's Website:

Q. What is the best antifreeze/coolant concentration for a vehicle? Can I use 100% antifreeze?

A. We recommend that you use between a 50% and 70% concentration of antifreeze. At least 50% is necessary to give the adequate amount of corrosion protection, as well as freeze/boilover protection. However, we do not recommend more than 70% antifreeze. This would cause restriction of the heat transfer capabilities, corrosion protection, and freeze protection. The concentration of freeze/boilover protection of the antifreeze mixture can be checked using a Prestone® Antifreeze Coolant Tester.



If a 50/50 mixture wasn't the best, why do they sell it premixed this way? It's interesting that running 100% antifreeze limits corrosion, as well as freeze protection!


Big Jim, we will leave it up to you to tell Prestone they are wrong!! Tell them that their customers in Texas, and the Arab desert need to run 100%

 

[Big Jim M]

I read your COPY AND PASTE as it is written:
At least 50% is necessary to give the adequate amount of corrosion protection,

Which means to me that 100 % would give optimum protection.
Funny how words mean things.
Big Jim

 

[Bob Ayers]

I read your COPY AND PASTE as it is written:
At least 50% is necessary to give the adequate amount of corrosion protection,

Which means to me that 100 % would give optimum protection.
Funny how words mean things.
Big Jim

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!.........Guess you quit reading after you read the part you liked!!!

However, we do not recommend more than 70% antifreeze.

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!.........Guess you quit reading after you read the part you liked!!!

Pot, meet kettle.

Big Jim, You said that the engine wants to run at 250-260°, but it is know that engines are most efficient right around 200°. That is why factory thermostats are usually ~195°. Anyway, I am sticking to my 50/50 mix. Water Wetter did help drop a few degrees in my old mans pickup and my worked over 5.0L, so that seems to be a nice addition to the system.

 

[shadetree]

More is not better in this case. Assuming that if 50% is good, 100% has got to be better is wrong. I cannot find a recommendation anywhere that goes over 70% mix, and this is for extreme temps.

Ethylene glycol freezes at +8*F, not that much different than water. It is only when eg is mixed with water that the freezing point drops. This starts to turn around at about a 60% mix, and go back in the other direction. So, not only do you lose your cooling ability in the engine, you also lose your protection against freezing when using eg antifreeze only. shady

 

[Big Jim M]

Pot, meet kettle.

Big Jim, You said that the engine wants to run at 250-260°, but it is know that engines are most efficient right around 200°. That is why factory thermostats are usually ~195°. Anyway, I am sticking to my 50/50 mix. Water Wetter did help drop a few degrees in my old mans pickup and my worked over 5.0L, so that seems to be a nice addition to the system.

Josh the reason engines run a 195* or thereabouts thermostat is so the WATER in the coolant won't boil and puke itself out of the system. Actually engines like 250 but with the coolant used it would be near impossible to keep that temp without extreme pressure in the cooling jacket.

It is not unusual for NASCAR racers to have a problem with hotdog wrappers over the radiator and the engine to run at 240/250* for many miles. Most times the overheated car is passing the other racers.

Big Jim

 

[Big Jim M]

Lawyers and engineers! Of course they don't advise more than 70%! If they did and someone in Alaska put more than that in their ride and the thing froze and busted...they would be liable.
Big Jim

 

[shadetree]

Lawyers and engineers! Of course they don't advise more than 70%! If they did and someone in Alaska put more than that in their ride and the thing froze and busted...they would be liable.
Big Jim

Big, this is already happening, and it is because of what you propose, use antifreeze only. People put 100% anti-freeze in their cars, then when winter comes it freezes and bursts the block, they then gripe at the antifreeze companies that their product is "junk,", "no good," etc., when they don't follow directions as to the use of the product.

Engineers have their faults, but use of the product is common knowledge, and the maker of the products usually are pretty straight forward due to the liability. If what the mfgr's are saying is incorrect, it would have been disputed and changed long ago.

Here is a short article on the subject. Take it however you will, but facts are facts. If you can find something to dispute this other than your "50 years of using it wrong," and your attitude towards engineers, I would be more than willing to listen. shady

This is an older article, but it still holds true:

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF6/680.html

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Josh the reason engines run a 195* or thereabouts thermostat is so the WATER in the coolant won't boil and puke itself out of the system. Actually engines like 250 but with the coolant used it would be near impossible to keep that temp without extreme pressure in the cooling jacket.

It is not unusual for NASCAR racers to have a problem with hotdog wrappers over the radiator and the engine to run at 240/250* for many miles. Most times the overheated car is passing the other racers.

Big Jim

No, that is not the case. Engines are known to be most efficient around the 200° mark. Engines regularly overheat to 230°+, and it does not help performance or efficiency.

 

[fixizin]

In Jim's favor is the success of Evans EXPENSIVE waterless coolants in race cars and other high-perf vehicles. There must be something else in the Evans besides the propylene glycol, but it ain't water. Absent the water, their coolant LASTS FOREVER.

(I'd like to find out, and mix my own... ;')

Evans was a pioneering engineer in the field, consulting to GM, and his site lists all kinds of microscopic boundary condition cooling issues in the critical coolant jackets around the heads and cylinders... cavitation, vapor blanketing, etc...

The EG+water mix is a COMPROMISE, and Prestone, Zerex, etc. LOVE it, because the water DEGRADES their product, requiring REPLACEMENT every 2 years... it's what the bean-counters call "revenue stream" from "consumables".

(OTOH, it's a lot easier to drain a EG+water system, than an oil-filled one.)

 

[fixizin]

Lively thread... wonder if the OP ever solved his problem, or decided he didn't have one... LOL!

 

[Big Jim M]

Thanks fixisin... at least ONE friendly face in the crowd!
Ok guys now that I see you all have read the advertisements... what bout my Bobcat using 40W as a coolant and the SAME 40W goes from the coolant system to the oiling system.. I'm wondering why I ain't getting greif over that? Could it be there ain't no advertisements to cut and paste from???
Big Jim

 

[Bob Ayers]

In Jim's favor is the success of Evans EXPENSIVE waterless coolants in race cars and other high-perf vehicles. There must be something else in the Evans besides the propylene glycol, but it ain't water. Absent the water, their coolant LASTS FOREVER.

(I'd like to find out, and mix my own... ;')

Evans was a pioneering engineer in the field, consulting to GM, and his site lists all kinds of microscopic boundary condition cooling issues in the critical coolant jackets around the heads and cylinders... cavitation, vapor blanketing, etc...

The EG+water mix is a COMPROMISE, and Prestone, Zerex, etc. LOVE it, because the water DEGRADES their product, requiring REPLACEMENT every 2 years... it's what the bean-counters call "revenue stream" from "consumables".

(OTOH, it's a lot easier to drain a EG+water system, than an oil-filled one.)

 

[shadetree]

Evan's magic is propylene glycol, 100% according to their ads which Big evidently doesn't believe in.

It is intend for use in high performance engines.

It is expensive as hell.

It takes a certain size radiator.

You have to remove the thermostat, and block off the thermostat bypass.

It has a higher viscosity, hence more pumping power required.

I don't see major manufacturers rushing to put this product in their production lines.

This is enough to convice me it is not feasable for everyday use in a stock automobile. But, to each his own.

When working with toxic chemicals, it is a pretty good idea to know what the uses and limitations are of the chemical. I have found the best place to find this information is from the manufacturer. The liabilities are much too great for the manufacturer to lie about the product. shady

 

[Big Jim M]

Oh WOW Shady! Removing the thermostat? Ain't that a bunch of crap? With the thermostat removed the pump moves 40/60 gals min. Whishing the coolant thru the radiator so quick that the coolant doesn't lose all it's heat. Even with pristine water in a radiator here in Texas the temp moves up and up in the summer time.
I know you are reporting what you have read but I just can't see ANY vehicle without some kind of coolant restriction..
That must be some sort of typo.. I'm trusting you but not whoever posted that crap.
Big Jim