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Rough Idle Update


Blackedge03

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Sorry for all the responses, but I'm reading back through the posts in this thread and your previous one to see what has and has not been done.

Have you done a fuel pressure test? How about a compression test?
First let me say thanks for your explanations. I figured out most of the things you point out thru trial and error but it is nice to have it explained.
The dealership did the compression test and said it checked out good. Now I wish they would have given me the numbers. I don't know if they did a fuel pressure test. I was thinking today that I need to do that.Probably do that myself. If I had known this was going to be such a problem I would have gone about it differently. I should have asked for a record of everything they did at the dealership.
 


Rearanger

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Fuel pressure should show up as more of a problem under load than idle. I wonder if there is drag somewhere on the engine that will show up as the idle you describe. My first thought would be A/C compressor clutch not releasing completely. Maybe a long shot but try removing the A/C drive belt and see if idle improves.
 

SixFoFalcon

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If they really did run a compression test and it came back OK, then you can rule out things like bad piston rings, leaky head gasket, burned piston, scored cylinder wall, bad valve or valve seat, etc. In other words, most of the things that would force you to pull a cylinder head and/or get a machine shop involved.

So with Compression out of the picture, you are looking for Fuel, Air, or Ignition issues. (Just assume for a little while that emissions and engine control sensors and whatnot are not the problem--since the PCM monitors those things, it *should* spit out a trouble code if they are malfunctioning. Yes, it's possible to have something fail w/o a code but it's a long shot so don't chase your tail on that possibility yet.)

Air - Keep looking for vacuum leaks. One area that is often overlooked is the vacuum hose leading to the Fuel Pressure Regulator. It's not usually a problem, but I have seen them fail with almost-invisible cracks that could only be pinpointed by removing the hose, plugging one end, and applying vacuum to the other end with a vacuum gauge. Your truck is fairly new so I'd be surprised if that was the culprit but it doesn't take long to check and then you can move on. Other than that one, keep looking in the usual places (i.e. any vacuum lines connected to the manifold, check intake gaskets, etc.) Look for burned or chafed wires, or poor connections leading to the MAF sensor, TPS, and IAC.

Fuel - Add DryGas if you haven't already. Change fuel filter if you haven't already. Check fuel pressure. Other less common problems are obstructions inside the fuel rail (I have seen pictures of flaked-off chrome from the fuel rail settling in and clogging an injector. This one is particularly nasty as it can move around from one injector to another, and be just enough of a nuisance that it doesn't set a code.) I think you would have noticed that when you cleaned the injectors though. Check the fuel system wiring for signs of chafage, burning/blistering, etc.

Ignition - I think I have my stock ignition coil sitting around. I'll have to check if it works for your '03--if it does I'll mail it to you and you can swap it in to see if it makes any difference. You already did the plugs and wires so that's everything on the high-voltage side. On the "trigger" side, the cam position sensor and crank position sensor typically throw codes as soon as they become a problem, but keep them in mind if other troubleshooting doesn't fix your truck.

The one service that I *would* consider going to the dealer for, if all else fails, is a cylinder load balance test. (It's pricey but when traditional troubleshooting fails to produce results, it could be cheaper in the long run than doing all this labor and replacing parts when you don't really know what's up.) For the test, they run the engine under load and shut off ignition & fuel to one cylinder at a time and observe the effect on the engine's output. For example, if shutting down cylinder #2 has less of a negative effect than shutting down #1 and #3-6, then #2 obviously wasn't providing as much output as the other cylinders. Then you can look for ignition or fuel problems specific to that cylinder. But if you already did a compression test, and replaced the plugs, wires, & coil, and checked/cleaned the injectors, there really aren't too many more options that would be specific to one cylinder.
 

SixFoFalcon

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Fuel pressure should show up as more of a problem under load than idle. I wonder if there is drag somewhere on the engine that will show up as the idle you describe. My first thought would be A/C compressor clutch not releasing completely. Maybe a long shot but try removing the A/C drive belt and see if idle improves.
Good advice. :icon_thumby: I have seen other components mimick engine problems. One guy in my SHO club had a bad torque converter clutch and it felt exactly like a misfire. It didn't throw any codes for thousands of miles and he ended up chasing his tail on that one until the problem got bad enough to throw a code.
 

Blackedge03

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Fuel pressure should show up as more of a problem under load than idle. I wonder if there is drag somewhere on the engine that will show up as the idle you describe. My first thought would be A/C compressor clutch not releasing completely. Maybe a long shot but try removing the A/C drive belt and see if idle improves.
I only have one belt so I'm a little confused on that one.:dunno:
 

Blackedge03

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Thanks for the info/advice. I will try to change the fuel filter since they are not too expensive anyway. I will do a fuel pressure test as well, probably be the weekend before I get both of these accomplished. I did swap out the coil pack from my wife's Taurus cause it is the exact same one,but it didn't make a difference. I heard about another local mechanic who only works on Fords. He has many yrs. experience and has the right equipment to diagnose problems. I might end up taking it to him when I go on vacation because I won't need the truck for work then. That's down the road though. Thanks again for all the help guys!!
 

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1nse a year

Mass Air Flow Sensor - heats up and makes adjustments when the air flows over it--> clean both sides and check for airleaks

MAP Sensor - junk yard replacement part, if really needed

Idle Air Control Valve - take off clean 2 holes one with sensor, some people say also clean inside where the 'black-cap' is

i clean these once i suck 1/2 can of SeaFoam into my intake via the brake vacuum line, once a year.

1994 3.0 120k
 

Blackedge03

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Had the fuel injectors cleaned today at a local shop but it didn't help my idle problem. The mechanic is the best around by all accounts. He said it's really just a guessing game since there are no codes. Since I had pulled the injectors out myself previously, he assumed that I replaced the plenum gaskets which I did not. He said that I should go back and replace those as that could be the problem from the beginning. He said that it could be sucking air between the ports or port to port I guess. He said that even with the low mileage on this truck that it is 6 yrs. old and those gaskets might not be sealing very well. He said he would do a fuel pressure test and I assume he did but I forgot to ask about that when I picked it up. There is just not much left to try to fix the problem. Any thoughts?
 

Rearanger

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he assumed that I replaced the plenum gaskets which I did not. He said that I should go back and replace those as that could be the problem from the beginning.
Does he mean the o-rings that seal each injector? If not that is a possible hard to find air leak potential. I'm assuming each injector has an o-ring that seals the body in the intake plenum. It's hard to believe an 03 would have these go so soon but - maybe? When I sent my injectors from another truck to get flow tested and repaired the company sent new o-rings with the parts. Could try spraying some carb cleaner at each injector o-ring. After this it gets complicated as I guess the best way now would be to pressurize the intake/exhaust (if that's possible) and use smoke to see any leaks. I know there are smoke leak detection systems but don't know if they provide a way to seal both the intake and exhaust systems. You'd need to block off the tail pipe and the throttle body, then pressurize with smoke. Cost may be more than you'd like to spend as smoke machines are fairly expensive so labor charges may be high.
 

Blackedge03

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Not the injector o-rings, the upper air intake/plenum gaskets. I am replacing them in the morning. They fit into grooves around each hole on the bottom side of the plastic upper intake. They are like o-rings near as I can tell. Nothing like the gaskets I have seen in the past like say valve cover gaskets that go around the outer edge of the cover for example. These just compress right around each hole or port. You may already know this but I just wanted to make it clearer for anyone reading this post. My fuel presssure was checked and was good so I'm thinking the fuel filter can't be the problem.
I wish I knew someone who has a truck with the same MAF as mine so I could just swap it out and see if it makes a difference. The one on there now is a used MAF off a supposedly low mileage taurus. The dealership wanted me to buy one from them for $216 plus tax. I already have over $300 in this problem. The local mechanic said sometimes you do have to go with the factory part but I just doubt that two aftermarkets and the used MAF would all be bad. As far as the smoke deal I don't think I could afford to have it done . Do most shops have that capability? I don't even no were to have something like that done. Thanks for the response and I'm sorry I wrote a book on this.
 

Blackedge03

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My brother talked to a mechanic he knows who says it is the PCM not reading the MAF correctly. Could he be right? Who knows? I have tried to locate one on ebay and junk yards with no luck. There are plenty of PCM out there just none for my truck. Getting closer to selling this truck.:annoyed:
 

elgato

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Blackedge03

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I am debating buying a computer (PCM) for $99. I really don't think that is the problem but I might try it and if it doesn't solve the rough idle\quiver\stumble\miss or whatever you want to call it, maybe I can resell it on ebay. Gonna think on it the weekend. I am also thinking about trading for a new ranger. The $4000 rebate and $1000 cash bonus from Ford credit makes for a tempting deal. Decisions...Decisions...:dunno:
 

Rearanger

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I am debating buying a computer (PCM) for $99
Call these guys first for possible advice: http://avproecm.com/index.htm
They may have run into this problem and know if the PCM is cause and if it can be repaired. I'm not a computer guy but for the PCM to be reading the signals wrong would mean that the programmed parameters are incorrect.
 

Blackedge03

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Call these guys first for possible advice: http://avproecm.com/index.htm
They may have run into this problem and know if the PCM is cause and if it can be repaired. I'm not a computer guy but for the PCM to be reading the signals wrong would mean that the programmed parameters are incorrect.
Wouldn't the reflash at the dealership take care of incorrect parameters? This is why I don't suspect the computer. I will definately check out the website and /or call them. Thanks for the help.:icon_thumby:
 

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