Obama wants to go to Mars...

[bmonee5]

WOW, not only is everyone on this forum a certified Ford mechanic that knows everything about every model ford ever made, but we're all rocket scientists as well, small world. well, i too have a degree in history channel space exploration with a minor in discovery channel space debris plus a masters in national geographic channel astrophysics.

of course osama is talking about going to mars, what else is gonna spend his day doing? you can only play basketball for so many hours and march madness has come and gone before you know it. he's smart though, people start asking, "mr. osama, what are you doing to fix the economy and create jobs?" and he goes, "mars!! we're going to mars one day!" or "wanna see my NCAA bracket?"

sure, let's go to mars, i think it would take a global effort and MAYBE unite us all for a few years (or months), but lets make sure people arent losing there jobs and homes while some overschooled d-bag jumps around on mars

thats funny, i don't care who you are.....
btw, i'm laughing with not at you.

 

[Southern_Trendkill]

You are wrong.
You are so wrong that I don't know where to begin.

And the pot starts calling the kettle black...

not a single penny will be spent "on mars"
The money will be spend LEARNING things, and there is absolutely no way of knowing what we will learn.

We spent a lot of money on the moon back in the 60's. It had very little to do with learning anything from it, we just wanted to beat the russians so we could brag about how awesome we were. This Mars goal is nothing but a status symbol.

I can tell you we will learn an awful lot and you have no concept how far reaching those changes will be.

Yes. I'm sure we all remember how the Apollo missions revolutionized all technology on earth.

You obviously have no idea how much of your life is "Spin off" from the apollo program, not the least of which is the computer technology you are using to demonstrate the monumental nature of your own ignorance and foolishness.

Frankly the answers to many of our earthly problems lie in space.

It's raining soup and people haven't invented buckets yet!

Considering that we know more about space than we do about the ocean, I think our money is better spent on exploring the rest of our own planet.

And if you want to talk about life-saving technology, look at seaweed. If we could make it taste palatable, we could feed the world pretty easily.

I think you should provide some basis for your argument before you go calling everyone who doesn't agree with you stupid hippies.

 

[crbnunit]

Our future is in space. We can not affort to continue to sit on our butts staring up at the stars. We need to be among them.

The one and only thing we can do here on Earth to ensure our continued survival is something that will never happen. Learn to control our population. Until that happens, we are doomed unless we can find a way to expand out and away from Earth.

 

[Ozwynn]

Our future is in space. We can not affort to continue to sit on our butts staring up at the stars. We need to be among them.

The one and only thing we can do here on Earth to ensure our continued survival is something that will never happen. Learn to control our population. Until that happens, we are doomed unless we can find a way to expand out and away from Earth.

colonizing other star systems wont happen until we are over populated so bad we have to stand on top of each other....... I know you read science fiction..... it may be fiction but all fiction is partly based on fact.

 

[bmonee5]

colonizing other star systems wont happen until we are over populated so bad we have to stand on top of each other....... I know you read science fiction..... it may be fiction but all fiction is partly based on fact.

i think the possibility of colonizing other star systems is a little out of possibility with those systems being so far away....aren't the other star systems years and years and years away?

 

[Ozwynn]

i think the possibility of colonizing other star systems is a little out of possibility with those systems being so far away....aren't the other star systems years and years and years away?

yeah, they would have to be generational ships........ or stasis.




However, the physics professor hear claims that hyperspace or wormhole generation is possible...... atleast mathematically....... we just are not at a technological level to understand it........ Warp drive, however, is impossible because it would involve accelerating past the speed of light........ Hyperdrive would create a shortcut........ we understand so little about how space and time function together its pathetic.

 

[AllanD]

And the pot starts calling the kettle black...



We spent a lot of money on the moon back in the 60's. It had very little to do with learning anything from it, we just wanted to beat the russians so we could brag about how awesome we were. This Mars goal is nothing but a status symbol.



Yes. I'm sure we all remember how the Apollo missions revolutionized all technology on earth.



Considering that we know more about space than we do about the ocean, I think our money is better spent on exploring the rest of our own planet.

And if you want to talk about life-saving technology, look at seaweed. If we could make it taste palatable, we could feed the world pretty easily.

I think you should provide some basis for your argument before you go calling everyone who doesn't agree with you stupid hippies.

You can have all my share of the seaweed, because I don't want it.

I haven't called anyone a hippy, but if the shoe fits I can tell ya where to shove it

It isn't as much learning about the moon as it is learning how to get there and back.

Medical technology, computer technology, materials science, metrology.

That just for starters it is the foundation of so much stuff you have and depend on that you likely wouldn't be alive without it.

What we learned about the moon is effectively irrelevant, what we learned about GETTING THERE was worth the expense and effort.

The problem with ignorance is you don't even know what you don't know.

We WILL learn things
We will learn how to DO things

And where those things lead?

Even the people who discover the coolest new things won't have a clue how profoundly those discoveries will affect the future.

You simply don't understand how much of your life is the result of the space program.

Just the medical instrumentation to monitor the health of the astronauts
has affected the practice of medicine so profoundly that medicine today is as much advanced over that of the i960's as the 1960's was advanced over medical treatment before the civil war!

I say again, the problem with ignorance is you don't know
what you don't know.

Many people when confronted with something they don't know shrug and move on.

Many more deny that they don't know (like you are doing)

Personally if I'm confronted by a situation where I don't know I get angry
Why DON'T I know? then I set about KNOWING.

Though admittedly sometimes "Don't care" intervenes

Like what would it take to get you to realize... Oh never mind, YOU aren't worth my effort.

People complained about the expense of the Lewis & Clarke expedition to view the Louisiana purchase... and again when William Seward bought Alaska
people wondered why anyone wanted it.... and complained about the expense...

Can you honestly tell me that the Moon, mars or space (asteroids) in general won't be the next "alaska" or the next "Lousiana Purchase"

to stay here and believe that all the solutions are "here" and denying that there might be easier solutions elsewhere...

To insist that we ONLY look "here" and denying the very possibility of searching elsewhere...

That is foolishness...


You think the solutions are here in the oceans? go ahead and look,
I'm not stopping you....

But you advocate NOT searching where I (and other like minded people)
want to look?

Hmmmm...




AD

 

[Captain Ledd]

yeah, they would have to be generational ships........ or stasis.

Pandorum FTW.

 

[bmonee5]

You know what i watched a movie called, " The Fourth Kind " last night, and whether or not its a bunch of BS or not it got me thinking about space travel and aliens and i'd be willing to be if we were able to travel far enough we would definately discover some kind of life. Whenever i think about the stars or planets or space travel just imagineing how big the universe is and what kind of life is out there really makes me think, but unfortunetly i will be dead along with my kids kids kids's kids will also probably be dead before anyone really finds anything out about other life on planets.

 

[Nhaz]

Huge amounts of the oceans do not contain enough oxygen for most fish to survive.

Allan I DO know we have to have water to do pretty much anything anywhere. My point was it should BE pretty much anywhere we want to go. Mars IS a good test of us being able to land without enough fuel to take back off, and being able to generate more from the Martian ice cap.

I would personally send a robot to do it first =>

I do not see us anytime soon with current tech and up coming tech getting out of the solar system to colonize other star systems. Even with wormhole theories. right now they are just theories. theres no tech that can even come close to thinking about maybe making one. And if we could make one. I wouldn't want one anywhere Near the planet earth. Outside the solar system is better. The theory does say they are a form of a singularity.

This is why I mentioned the Oort cloud and the Kuniper belt of comets. My vision of long term humanity is a slow progression of colonization in these areas and slowly cross the vast gulfs of space on the comets themselves as generational ships. Not only do they provide fuel they provide shielding and materials to not only survive but thrive.

pay attention to what CERN produces in the coming years. one of the things they are looking for is the theoretical particle called the Higgs boson. One of the things it could be is the Gravity particle. but no one knows yet. If it is. then Antigravity may be on the way. thats alot of maybes there. don't quote me on any of that its pure speculation.


Back to mars, If you want to make mars livable. you need to add a magnetic field. this will pretty much require you to find a huge amount of nickle iron asteroids. Then another huge amount of radioactives and then somehow get them into the center of mars. THEN spin it up =>

Or just ignore it for the crappy chunk of rock it is => you would have less difficulty cooling down Venus. Seriously all you need for Venus is to block some of the sunlight to bring down the temp. Much easier to do.

Once you have the temp down. start dropping comets for some water. once you have some small oceans, you start seeding some plankton and whatnot to generate the oxygen to breath. Viola! instant livable planet. Only takes maybe 500-1000 years Minimum! Oh and add a magnetic field as well! I think the only other local planet with a field other then earth is Mercury. Good luck living there!

 

[Southern_Trendkill]

You can have all my share of the seaweed, because I don't want it.

I haven't called anyone a hippy, but if the shoe fits I can tell ya where to shove it

It isn't as much learning about the moon as it is learning how to get there and back.

Medical technology, computer technology, materials science, metrology.

That just for starters it is the foundation of so much stuff you have and depend on that you likely wouldn't be alive without it.

What we learned about the moon is effectively irrelevant, what we learned about GETTING THERE was worth the expense and effort.

The problem with ignorance is you don't even know what you don't know.

We WILL learn things
We will learn how to DO things

And where those things lead?

Even the people who discover the coolest new things won't have a clue how profoundly those discoveries will affect the future.

You simply don't understand how much of your life is the result of the space program.

Just the medical instrumentation to monitor the health of the astronauts
has affected the practice of medicine so profoundly that medicine today is as much advanced over that of the i960's as the 1960's was advanced over medical treatment before the civil war!

I say again, the problem with ignorance is you don't know
what you don't know.

Many people when confronted with something they don't know shrug and move on.

Many more deny that they don't know (like you are doing)

Personally if I'm confronted by a situation where I don't know I get angry
Why DON'T I know? then I set about KNOWING.

Though admittedly sometimes "Don't care" intervenes

Like what would it take to get you to realize... Oh never mind, YOU aren't worth my effort.

People complained about the expense of the Lewis & Clarke expedition to view the Louisiana purchase... and again when William Seward bought Alaska
people wondered why anyone wanted it.... and complained about the expense...

Can you honestly tell me that the Moon, mars or space (asteroids) in general won't be the next "alaska" or the next "Lousiana Purchase"

to stay here and believe that all the solutions are "here" and denying that there might be easier solutions elsewhere...

To insist that we ONLY look "here" and denying the very possibility of searching elsewhere...

That is foolishness...


You think the solutions are here in the oceans? go ahead and look,
I'm not stopping you....

But you advocate NOT searching where I (and other like minded people)
want to look?

Hmmmm...




AD

Cite your source. If you're going to try to make an argument based on scientific facts, then you have to cite your source. Otherwise you're just blowing hot air.

 

[Jason]

I don't normally call people idiots but you sir are one. try reading some science sometime. and not of the fiction variety.

Clue. they have this thing called a Spectrogram. Using reflected light you can determine from the wavelength what the material of a object is. Thats how the hell we know what some of the roids out there are made out of nickle iron.


Oh and the fact they fall to the ground and we pick them up and go oh wow thats just like a lump of iron.

Yet, without a physical sample, it's only theory. I would expect a world renowned scientist such as yourself to know that. And some of the stuff found has been lumps of iron of course but that makes no basis for assuming the total content of an asteroid.

 

[LIMA BEAN]

You are wrong.

You are so wrong that I don't know where to begin.

not a single penny will be spent "on mars"

The money will be spend LEARNING things, and there is absolutely no way of knowing what we will learn.

I can tell you we will learn an awful lot and you have no concept how far reaching those changes will be.


You obviously have no idea how much of your life is "Spin off" from the apollo program, not the least of which is the computer technology you are using to demonstrate the monumental nature of your own ignorance and foolishness.

Frankly the answers to many of our earthly problems lie in space.

It's raining soup and people haven't invented buckets yet!

if you really believe that the conventional (liberal) way of "fixing" problems
will do a goddamned thing except make a FEW people feel good about having "done something" please keep it to yourself.

AD

Not to sound nerdy but Star Trek also contributed. Cell phones, desktop putors,ect. the story line alone was born of the hardships of mankind here on Earth. We walked and sailed to see what was out there, its our nature... it goes without saying we will find a way to sail to distant planets. There are other beings out there, lets hope they are not hostile and are willing to teach us how not to be towards each other if we dont kill ourselves off first.

P.S. I dont need to hear the whole creationism vs science thing from anyone. When I die I am coming back as a Twinkie/Cockroach hybrid... fear me.

 

[AllanD]

Not to sound nerdy but Star Trek also contributed. Cell phones, desktop putors,ect. the story line alone was born of the hardships of mankind here on Earth. We walked and sailed to see what was out there, its our nature... it goes without saying we will find a way to sail to distant planets. There are other beings out there, lets hope they are not hostile and are willing to teach us how not to be towards each other if we dont kill ourselves off first.

P.S. I dont need to hear the whole creationism vs science thing from anyone. When I die I am coming back as a Twinkie/Cockroach hybrid... fear me.

StarTrek gave the desire for the "Gadgets"

Anyone who buys a flip phone is atleast thinking "Kirk to Enterprise" when they flip that little thing open...

But it's the R&D for the space program that actually made the foundation.
that makes the current technology possible.

But we still don't have talking computers.
Not necissarily a bad thing, because the computers of some here would probably be whining about how much internet porn some of ya'll have downloaded.

Or how much your choice of music (white guys listening to HipHop?) sucks.

Huge amounts of the oceans do not contain enough oxygen for most fish to survive.

Allan I DO know we have to have water to do pretty much anything anywhere. My point was it should BE pretty much anywhere we want to go. Mars IS a good test of us being able to land without enough fuel to take back off, and being able to generate more from the Martian ice cap.

I would personally send a robot to do it first =>

I do not see us anytime soon with current tech and up coming tech getting out of the solar system to colonize other star systems. Even with wormhole theories. right now they are just theories. theres no tech that can even come close to thinking about maybe making one. And if we could make one. I wouldn't want one anywhere Near the planet earth. Outside the solar system is better. The theory does say they are a form of a singularity.

This is why I mentioned the Oort cloud and the Kuniper belt of comets. My vision of long term humanity is a slow progression of colonization in these areas and slowly cross the vast gulfs of space on the comets themselves as generational ships. Not only do they provide fuel they provide shielding and materials to not only survive but thrive.

pay attention to what CERN produces in the coming years. one of the things they are looking for is the theoretical particle called the Higgs boson. One of the things it could be is the Gravity particle. but no one knows yet. If it is. then Antigravity may be on the way. thats alot of maybes there. don't quote me on any of that its pure speculation.


Back to mars, If you want to make mars livable. you need to add a magnetic field. this will pretty much require you to find a huge amount of nickle iron asteroids. Then another huge amount of radioactives and then somehow get them into the center of mars. THEN spin it up =>

Or just ignore it for the crappy chunk of rock it is => you would have less difficulty cooling down Venus. Seriously all you need for Venus is to block some of the sunlight to bring down the temp. Much easier to do.

Once you have the temp down. start dropping comets for some water. once you have some small oceans, you start seeding some plankton and whatnot to generate the oxygen to breath. Viola! instant livable planet. Only takes maybe 500-1000 years Minimum! Oh and add a magnetic field as well! I think the only other local planet with a field other then earth is Mercury. Good luck living there!

Jupiter has one HELL of a magnetic field, but it's field is a danger all by itself...

Don't think planets think moons. Moons have less gravity which makes "strip mining" them
more practical, and they aren't so far away as the Oort cloud.

If I were going looking for a comet or asteroid to "steal" I'd look in the Jovian system for an appropriate moon.

Jupiters gravity can be used to "slingshot" something just about anywhere you'd want it to go.
It's all about gravity

as for Jason? Dude I think a meteroid could fall on your head and you'd still argue about
what it was made out of, you also need to go actually look up the phrase "Scientific Theory"
because it doesn't mean something as nebulous as what you seem to think it means.

the baseball bat I'm swinging at your head is only theoretically Hickory
and will only theoretically hurt when it hits.... Theoretically from YOUR point of view.

Your Pain is also theoretical from MY point of view

Theoretically the craters on the moon are caused by meteoric impacts
there was a time when this "theory" was considered "a crack pot idea"

Now? suggesting that the OLD idea (which has NO scientific basis whatsoever)
that the craters were "volcanic" in origin will get you a nice jacket with tether
straps on the ends of the sleeves to wear in your padded room...

Or the "Theory" that meteors are "rocks that fall from the sky" was once laughed at.

Or as school children have been observing since globes became common in schools that
the continents fit together like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle...
I was told "No" by a school teacher in 2nd grade when I proposed that idea...

Guess what? that teacher was WRONG the continents DO move, yet the
"Plate tectonic theory" got the guy who first thought it up laughed at...

My "Theories" will likely not only (philisophically) bite you on the ass
but tear off big chunks.

Franly either your education, or that of your teachers is out of date.

I'll trust spectrograph data just as well as I trust physical samples I can put in my hand...

Why? because a sample I can touch is going to be analysed with essentially the same
equpment, a mass spectrograph, the difference is the sample I can TOUCH is also one I can contaminate by something I didn't wash off my hands before touching it.

From long distance we KNEW the EXACT composition of the martian atmosphere...

Physical samples taken by the first probes to enter that atmosphere only confirmed
previous measurements.

AD

 

[Nhaz]

Yet, without a physical sample, it's only theory. I would expect a world renowned scientist such as yourself to know that. And some of the stuff found has been lumps of iron of course but that makes no basis for assuming the total content of an asteroid.

At what point did I say all and every single asteroid is made out of nickle iron? Or that the entire content is made out of nickle iron. That's quite a stretch.

Also NOT knowing the exact content of most asteroids is Exactly what we should go find out yo?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid

Took me all of 3 seconds to find that.

That article doesn't cover all the theories on asteroids. Theres another theory floating around that some of those asteroids are not solid at all. but lose groupings of sand/stone barely held together by mutual gravity. If so they would be Even EASIER to mine on the spot.

But again. there No way to really find out unless we GO or send some good probes. And speaking of probes that leads me right back to why the heck are we still using rockets for these things.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:InnerSolarSystem-en.png

Thats from the first link as a example. You think somewhere in that rather large mass of Millions of asteroids theres a FEW kilometer sized roids of nickle iron? it would only take 1 to give us enough metal to last and bloody long time.