Front crank/timing cover seal leak.... MAXIMUM ANNOYING

[Shran]

I forgot to mention to look for the groove in the balancer. You will have to take it back off to see it. Most high mileage engines do wear a groove in the balancer. They make repair sleeves to fix it.

My preference is moving the seal further in or out so that the lip sits on a fresh spot, if that is possible. Easy to do on a 4.0 timing cover, not so much on say, an axle pinion yoke...... trans output, etc. I took apart a NP 205 t-case a while back and the rear output yoke had a speedi sleeve on it, and the seal had worn through the sleeve and into the same spot on the yoke where it had worn a groove previously. Needless to say that t-case was bleeding profusely.

 

[CamTheHedgehog]

Alright @franklin2 and @Shran... I'm out of ideas.

Replaced the seal yesterday, took me about an hour and a half. As expected, the hardest part was the bolt. The old seal came out incredibly easily, and it was clear it was also leaking around the seal between it and the housing bore. The new one is significantly more tight in the bore, more than snug to feel confident about it unlike last time.

I started off using a 38mm axle nut socket to drive in the new seal, but it a) limited the amount of room I had to swing the hammer, and b) ended up cocking the seal in the bore anyway.

I changed to a short pin punch, working my way around the seal and double checking with the depth gauge on my calipers as I went. The seal from factory, as well as the first replacement, were recessed about 9mm in to the housing. On this one, I recessed it to 11mm, shifting where it would wear on the balancer. I also made sure to apply silicone inside the balancer where it meets the crank snout, per the repair manual; as well as lubing the seal with a bit of grease.

Finished things up on top, then went to town with brake cleaner and a rag to remove all the evidence of an oil leak.



Today I look under my truck..... and it appears to be leaking again. What did I do wrong? Did me using the pin punch damage the seal somehow despite my carefulness? Do I need to buy the special seal driver tool ford specs in the repair manual? Do I need to remove, reseal, and re-align the timing cover? Anything is appreciated, I'm getting ticked with this leak.

 

[Shran]

So it’s leaking around the seal bore and not necessarily from the lips/balancer?

Did you use any RTV on the outside of the seal where it slides into its bore and on the crankshaft keyway? I use a dab in both of those spots.

 

[CamTheHedgehog]

So it’s leaking around the seal bow and not necessarily from the lips/balancer?

Did you use any RTV on the outside of the seal where it slides into its bore and on the crankshaft keyway? I use a dab in both of those spots.

it was leaking from both, and a decent amount it seemed. This time with the OEM ford seal, I can't tell. The upper oil pan is just wet again. The old seal not only was looser in the bore, but also didn't hug the balancer as tight.

I didn't put any silicone on the outside of the seal, but I did on the crank/keyway, per the manual. I just worded it poorly in my post.

 

[CamTheHedgehog]

For context, this is the third seal in here. There was the original, than the one included with the TC gasket kit that then leaked, and now this new OEM one I put in yesterday.

 

[Shran]

it was leaking from both, and a decent amount it seemed. This time with the OEM ford seal, I can't tell. The upper oil pan is just wet again. The old seal not only was looser in the bore, but also didn't hug the balancer as tight.

I didn't put any silicone on the outside of the seal, but I did on the crank/keyway, per the manual. I just worded it poorly in my post.

I always put a very thin layer of RTV around the outside of those seals. I don't trust the press fit to keep oil in. I guess that is just personal preference, I don't know if they had RTV on them from the factory (doubt it) but rear main seals for our trucks come with a tube of RTV so I figure it can't hurt. My success rate on fixing leaks is about 50%. When I resealed the engine that went into my stepside truck, I was super careful about the timing cover & front seal... did it with the engine on a stand out of the truck... and that bastard is the only thing that leaks. I may have forgotten to put RTV on the keyway though and that might have been the problem.

 

[CamTheHedgehog]

I always put a very thin layer of RTV around the outside of those seals. I don't trust the press fit to keep oil in. I guess that is just personal preference, I don't know if they had RTV on them from the factory (doubt it) but rear main seals for our trucks come with a tube of RTV so I figure it can't hurt. My success rate on fixing leaks is about 50%. When I resealed the engine that went into my stepside truck, I was super careful about the timing cover & front seal... did it with the engine on a stand out of the truck... and that bastard is the only thing that leaks. I may have forgotten to put RTV on the keyway though and that might have been the problem.

Well, I suppose I’ll try that then. Time to order up another seal… also thoughts on reusing the balancer bolt? I know you aren’t supposed to, but it’s not like it’s keeping cams in time or heads bolted down…. Just an idea.

 

[Shran]

Oh I don't know. I have always just replaced it. I know other people just use a bunch of blue loctite and pick something above 37 ft/lbs for final torque when they reuse that bolt. You are correct, it's not even really subjected to any crazy thermal differences, it just holds a pulley in place, no different than flywheel bolts IMO but for some stupid reason they made it TTY.

It would be a super awful problem if the head broke off and the balancer came off the engine. Aside from then having to remove the broken off stub from the crank, I'm sure the balancer would tear up a lot of stuff as it makes its exit. How likely that is, who knows?

I buy those bolts in bulk, usually on eBay you can find a pack of 3 or 4 for a decent price. I think they were something like $12 each at my local Ford dealer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266589882000 <--- buy 3 @ $6.24 each, cheap insurance and then you have extras

 

[CamTheHedgehog]

Oh I don't know. I have always just replaced it. I know other people just use a bunch of blue loctite and pick something above 37 ft/lbs for final torque when they reuse that bolt. You are correct, it's not even really subjected to any crazy thermal differences, it just holds a pulley in place, no different than flywheel bolts IMO but for some stupid reason they made it TTY.

It would be a super awful problem if the head broke off and the balancer came off the engine. Aside from then having to remove the broken off stub from the crank, I'm sure the balancer would tear up a lot of stuff as it makes its exit. How likely that is, who knows?

I buy those bolts in bulk, usually on eBay you can find a pack of 3 or 4 for a decent price. I think they were something like $12 each at my local Ford dealer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266589882000 <--- buy 3 @ $6.24 each, cheap insurance and then you have extras

Yeah, peace of mind is worth it, I just wanted opinions.
Also, I never even can get it to the full 90 degrees in the second step, it’s simply too much. I just went as tight as I could.

Also your ford dealer is scamming you, the local dealer to me charged me $5.25 plus tax for a single bolt.

 

[Shran]

Also your ford dealer is scamming you, the local dealer to me charged me $5.25 plus tax for a single bolt.

Oh believe me... I know. I bought a few at a dealership in North Dakota for around $4-5 per bolt but since used them up. I hate my local Ford dealer with a passion, I try very hard to avoid going in there because of stuff like this. The owners are a couple of greedy dicks.

 

[jonyrad41]

My forth time coming up too. Just pulled the motor to do the timing chains,this 08 mazda B-4000 97,000 miles didn't have a counter balancer on the crank. Tried to align the cover over the crank and pushed the seal way in,no sealant and it leaked. The felpro kit came with a seal so I doubled them up and it leaked. Went with OEM seal no sealant and dorman harmonic balancer and its leaking again. Made 3'' spanners to get the fan off, use a 5'' 1/4 extension in crank so puller don't bottom out and pvc pipe /fitting to drive seal. On second bolt. Found this on ranger forum--- Front Cover Aligner Set 303-093 T 74P-6019-A at www.shopfreedomracing.com