Electric fans

[Froggmann]

Well my intent is to keep false information from being posted, which misleads youngsters that don't have the technical background to recognize useless mods. Not only
does an e-fan fall into this category, extensive engine damage can result from overheating.

Have you ever tested or installed an electric fan or underdrive pulley on a Ranger?

Who's spreading false information--dozens of people who have installed and tested these products and have had similar results, or a couple people who claim that these products are a waste of money but have no actual experience with said products. You do the math.

Real world results vs opinion. I'll take real world results any day of week.

 

[Bob Ayers]

Have you ever tested or installed an electric fan or underdrive pulley on a Ranger?

Who's spreading false information--dozens of people who have installed and tested these products and have had similar results, or a couple people who claim that these products are a waste of money but have no actual experience with said products. You do the math.

Real world results vs opinion. I'll take real world results any day of week.

Post the links for your "dozens"!

Like I have previously said, I know better than to replace the mechanical fan with an e-fan. I also know better than to install an UD pulley. Obviously you don't understand how an alternator / voltage regulator work. If the alternator spins too slow, the regulator will increase the current into the field to try and reach the appropriate voltage, and this will put more load on the engine. You have also done 2 more stupid mods, a 180F thermostat, and remove the air box silencer. The 3.0L FFV (along with all other newer Ford engines) is tuned to be the most efficient at 195F, and running too cool will increase engine wear, and decrease MPG. Without the air silencer, the velocity of the air entering the airbox will decrease, and cause turbulence. Turbulence = more noise, NOT MORE POWER!!!!!


See if you can comprehend this article about mods voiding factory warranties. UD pulleys are used as an example:

By Joe Bradley, Manager of Ford's Warranty Analysis department

"As you might expect from the company that formed SVT, the Ford Motor Company has many employees who are true performance enthusiasts -- folks who love and care for their personal high-performance vehicles as much as or more than the next guy or gal. Many of us, in fact, are true "weekend warriors" who can be found at the local drag strip or road course on Saturdays and Sundays, and tinkering under the hood during weekday evenings getting ready for the next event. As automotive enthusiasts, we certainly can appreciate performance machinery.

That said, as Ford employees we all want to do the right thing for our customers as well as for the Ford Motor Company. That is precisely why it is important to have a concise, easy-to-understand policy with regard to Ford warranty administration. For vehicles that are not modified, the Ford warranty policy is clear – the company backs its products within the guidelines of the new vehicle limited warranty, which is designed to protect the customer from defects in factory workmanship and/or material.

However, in the case of vehicles that have been modified, one needs to understand that the modifications may affect warranty coverage. This is simply because any damage or failure of new vehicle components or systems that was caused by modifications to the vehicle are not defects in "factory supplied" workmanship or material.

To illustrate this point, let's consider a small sample of vehicle modifications and see how they might affect factory components or systems: When it comes to changing the factory engine drive pulleys, there are some powertrain system and component concerns that deserve consideration. One would be any electrical and/or charging system problems that arise because of reduced alternator operating speed caused by the installation of underdrive pulleys. After all, the performance and serviceability of many system components are based on certain design parameters that include operating speed. The same goes for problems stemming from higher cooling system temperatures because of reduced water pump flow caused by the installation of underdrive pulleys. Increased underhood temperatures caused by owner-induced changes to a factory design-specification part can have a detrimental effect on any number of powertrain components or systems – some that may have long-range implications. And things can get even more serious when supercharger pulley changes are made, including head gasket leaks and piston and connecting rod failures. Also possible is piston damage due to detonation from improper air/fuel and timing modifications.

The installation of any non-factory forced induction system can also cause problems. Base engines modified with aftermarket superchargers, turbochargers or nitrous oxide injection systems may indeed bring about some power gains, but they can cause piston, connecting rod and/or crankshaft failures as well.

Other parts of a vehicle's factory-spec drivetrain are also susceptible to damage when engine torque and horsepower is increased. Performance chips or other power-enhancing devices increase torque loads on the driveline and can force failure of the transmission and/or rear axle. The latter problem can be especially true when owners switch to wider tires or racing slicks in an effort to increase traction. Even non "go-fast" aftermarket accessories such as remote starters, alarms, supplementary gauges and audio equipment can cause electrical system service problems if they are installed incorrectly or have improper connections.

When it comes to fairly evaluating the possibility of a warranty denial, there's one simple rule of thumb to follow: Although the installation of non-Ford parts and aftermarket modifications, by themselves, will not void the Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty, failures that result from these parts and/or modifications may result in a denial of warranty coverage for such failures or damage.

The bottom line is, Ford Motor Company wants each of its owners to enjoy their product to the fullest extent – and that includes performance vehicles. But dealer service technicians have seen, and continue to see, that modifications may cause the original design to fail. The addition of aftermarket parts is a risk that each and every vehicle owner must evaluate for themselves. All that's needed is a reasonable dose of common sense. When and if you modify your vehicle, please consider whether the modification may cause another component to fail – and if it does, recognize that warranty coverage for that failure or damage will likely be denied. "

 

[Bob Ayers]

well your not doing a very good job.

the only truth is extensive engine damage can result from overheating



do you know what a fx2 is? how about the power output of a modern 5.4?

You need to do a little research!

If you notice, the 5.4L on the 2010 F-150 produces 310HP, and 365 ft/lb of torque (NON-E85). The 5.4L on the 2010 F-250 produces 300HP, and 365 ft/lb of torque.
The only difference, the F-150 uses an e-fan, the F-250 uses a conventional mechanical fan/clutch.

Two points you need to understand from this:

1) Performance gain from the e-fan is very small, or non existent.

2) E-fan does not have enough capacity to handle the towing heat load of the F-250, so a mechanical fan/clutch
had to be used.


Even after-market e-fan manufacturers don't recommend an e-fan for high heat load applications:

 

[stmitch]

Ummm, in that add, it says they shouldn't be used on diesels, or vehicles over 18,000lbs GVWR. How many Rangers does that include? Why are we talking about F-150's and Super Duty's anyway? They have entirely different needs, and their owners require different functionality out of them. Your average Ranger is not a "high heat" or "heavy towing" application. As long as the e-fan is sufficiently sized, properly installed, and the rest of the cooling system is working properly, the e-fan will handle the cooling needs of a Ranger with ease. If the e-fan can cope with the ranger's cooling needs (mine hasn't has an issue in 20,000 miles of Indiana summers), and improve performance at the same time, (as your reference to the 5.4 L engine shows), then where's the harm?

 

[Bob Ayers]

Why are we talking about F-150's and Super Duty's? They have entirely different needs, and their owners require different functionality out of them. Your average Ranger is not a "high heat" or "heavy towing" application. As long as the e-fan is sufficiently sized, properly installed, and the rest of the cooling system is working properly, the e-fan will handle the cooling needs of a Ranger with ease.

Just examples where e-fans DO NOT have the cooling capacity of mechanical fan/clutches.

You need to understand when you replace the OEM mechanical fan/clutch fan on a Ranger with an e-fan,
you are:

1) Decreasing cooling capacity

2) Decreasing reliability

3) Little or no change to performance and/or MPG


The only advantage I have seen to the e-fan is the ability to shut the fan off when going through water up to the fan.

How many of you do this?

 

[stmitch]

If we're not being Ranger specific, there are plenty of examples of e-fans being sufficient cooling devices, with performance advantages over mechanical fans as well. Do you think any form of upper tier race cars (Formula 1, USAC, ALMS, Rally, Indycar, NHRA, NASCAR, etc) use clutch fans? If mechanical clutch fans are so superior, then why don't they use them? As long as the e-fan is properly sized, it can handle the cooling needs just as well as a clutch fan, and give some performance gain at the same time.
My point is, we can both cite examples to fit our specific arguments, but they would both be off base, unless talking specifically about the needs of 3.0 equipped Rangers.

 

[legoms013]

Only reason I'd ever switch to and run an electric fan would be so that I have the ability to turn it off when I go through deep water. Which I never do so I guess I won't be switching anytime soon

 

[bobbywalter]

You need to do a little research!

If you notice, the 5.4L on the 2010 F-150 produces 310HP, and 365 ft/lb of torque (NON-E85). The 5.4L on the 2010 F-250 produces 300HP, and 365 ft/lb of torque.
The only difference, the F-150 uses an e-fan, the F-250 uses a conventional mechanical fan/clutch.

Two points you need to understand from this:

1) Performance gain from the e-fan is very small, or non existent.

2) E-fan does not have enough capacity to handle the towing heat load of the F-250, so a mechanical fan/clutch
had to be used.


Even after-market e-fan manufacturers don't recommend an e-fan for high heat load applications:

holy spinozzi......

you need to do the research..... two lessons you need here


there is a gain to be had or it would not be there period..... and what is the gcvw of that little 150?

if it can handle that load then how can it be a decrease in cooling capacity for a ranger?

there are duty cycles that will stretch these fans to the limit where a mechanical 30 hp hp draw(which would be like five for an electric counterpart) when bangin a 5-10 mile grade loaded to the max in second gear doing 20-30 mph.....regardless of that fact i have installed these in d max and psd trucks with absolutly no cooling issues...because like water crossing very few people see those extremes.

but....he he he...what the fawk are you gonna say when the engines...even the 1 tons are cooled with e fans here shortly in the next 5 years or so???.

why?....

why is ford?..

...of all oem truck manufacturers...

using e fans....


on the most powerful line of 1/2 tons ever....

in its history.....

with the best towing ever....

in its whole 150 history....

with the best fuel economy ever in its fu--king history

....why is that?

maybe because ian needs to sell product on 4x4 tv?

hell...for any to to claim ian is a liar about the testing is just pathetic..

...i dont know where your at....its sad though. i will bet the 10000 mile thing is it though...bet they will just sell them 2 at a time.

Just examples where e-fans DO NOT have the cooling capacity of mechanical fan/clutches.

You need to understand when you replace the OEM mechanical fan/clutch fan on a Ranger with an e-fan,
you are:

1) Decreasing cooling capacity(incorrect)

2) Decreasing reliability(incorrect)

3) Little or no change to performance and/or MPG(provable performance 100%...economy is drive cycle dependant.. no gaurantee there ya got me.)


The only advantage I have seen to the e-fan is the ability to shut the fan off when going through water up to the fan.

How many of you do this?

yeah sitting in water up to my ass happens in my truck occasionally....but rarely do my feet get wet in general.

1, increase cooling performance....120 heat in traffic ac will be colder and truck normal with correct setup.


2, rare for a clutch fan to make 200 k in hard enviroment....e fan is good to at least the same.






would i take the fan off my street wheezer for an e fan.?? fawk no, waste of time.

if i really was trying to increase and squeeze out every ounce of ability, economy, and wanted colder ac ....sure.

but i would have to get the parts right...if i had more then 50 bux into it it would only be after my oem stuff was laying down.






i mean for shits sake....how the fawk does my truck stay cool? or is it i that is full of shit??? i probably dont even have a car in live in my moms basement for all you know right???

funny my shit and hopped up d maxes cool great and enjoy some mpg and waterpump relief with way better traffic jam cooling.......but a wormy ass fuggin factory ranger wont???

you full of shit dude. period.

 

[corrond56]

with an engine like the 3.0 ANY increase in power is huge. The thing has a hard enough time getting out of its own way as it is. As far as underdrive pulleys harming your engine, that's why you put on the additional pulleys to correct the speed that it is turning your accessories. Its common knowledge that you're F'n up the rest of your system by just putting on the crank pulley.

 

[bobbywalter]

with an engine like the 3.0 ANY increase in power is huge. The thing has a hard enough time getting out of its own way as it is. As far as underdrive pulleys harming your engine, that's why you put on the additional pulleys to correct the speed that it is turning your accessories. Its common knowledge that you're F'n up the rest of your system by just putting on the crank pulley.

corrected leverage ratios and tuning are foriegn to this guy. the factory hotrods come with all of this snake oil too...but....


the fact is the average oem shlubmobile is not tuned to specific needs..its the best median for all..so there is some potential for big gains to be had for some...for others not so much.

 

[Bob Ayers]

If we're not being Ranger specific, there are plenty of examples of e-fans being sufficient cooling devices, with performance advantages over mechanical fans as well. Do you think any form of upper tier race cars (Formula 1, USAC, ALMS, Rally, Indycar, NHRA, NASCAR, etc) use clutch fans? If mechanical clutch fans are so superior, then why don't they use them? As long as the e-fan is properly sized, it can handle the cooling needs just as well as a clutch fan, and give some performance gain at the same time.
My point is, we can both cite examples to fit our specific arguments, but they would both be off base, unless talking specifically about the needs of 3.0 equipped Rangers.

With the amount of airflow through the radiators at the speeds they are running, no fan is needed at all.

And I've never seen one of these cars with AC, or a trailer hitch!

 

[Bob Ayers]

holy spinozzi......

you need to do the research..... two lessons you need here


there is a gain to be had or it would not be there period..... and what is the gcvw of that little 150?

if it can handle that load then how can it be a decrease in cooling capacity for a ranger?

there are duty cycles that will stretch these fans to the limit where a mechanical 30 hp hp draw(which would be like five for an electric counterpart) when bangin a 5-10 mile grade loaded to the max in second gear doing 20-30 mph.....regardless of that fact i have installed these in d max and psd trucks with absolutly no cooling issues...because like water crossing very few people see those extremes.

but....he he he...what the fawk are you gonna say when the engines...even the 1 tons are cooled with e fans here shortly in the next 5 years or so???.

why?....

why is ford?..

...of all oem truck manufacturers...

using e fans....


on the most powerful line of 1/2 tons ever....

in its history.....

with the best towing ever....

in its whole 150 history....

with the best fuel economy ever in its fu--king history

....why is that?

maybe because ian needs to sell product on 4x4 tv?

hell...for any to to claim ian is a liar about the testing is just pathetic..

...i dont know where your at....its sad though. i will bet the 10000 mile thing is it though...bet they will just sell them 2 at a time.






















yeah sitting in water up to my ass happens in my truck occasionally....but rarely do my feet get wet in general.

1, increase cooling performance....120 heat in traffic ac will be colder and truck normal with correct setup.


2, rare for a clutch fan to make 200 k in hard enviroment....e fan is good to at least the same.






would i take the fan off my street wheezer for an e fan.?? fawk no, waste of time.

if i really was trying to increase and squeeze out every ounce of ability, economy, and wanted colder ac ....sure.

but i would have to get the parts right...if i had more then 50 bux into it it would only be after my oem stuff was laying down.






i mean for shits sake....how the fawk does my truck stay cool? or is it i that is full of shit??? i probably dont even have a car in live in my moms basement for all you know right???

funny my shit and hopped up d maxes cool great and enjoy some mpg and waterpump relief with way better traffic jam cooling.......but a wormy ass fuggin factory ranger wont???

you full of shit dude. period.

TRS is in bad shape if they have to have people like you as "Technical Advisors"!!

 

[Bob Ayers]

with an engine like the 3.0 ANY increase in power is huge. The thing has a hard enough time getting out of its own way as it is. As far as underdrive pulleys harming your engine, that's why you put on the additional pulleys to correct the speed that it is turning your accessories. Its common knowledge that you're F'n up the rest of your system by just putting on the crank pulley.

Simply brilliant!!! You put a pulley on the crank to slow down the accessories, and then change the pulleys on the accessories to speed them back up!!!

 

[stmitch]

With the amount of airflow through the radiators at the speeds they are running, no fan is needed at all.

And I've never seen one of these cars with AC, or a trailer hitch!

That's exactly my point. They are designed with different needs, just like F-150's and Super Dutys are designed with different needs. Neither your example of heavy duty trucks, or my example of high performance race machines really applies here to this conversation, because they are vastly different from Rangers. I was just trying to show that there are examples elsewhere in the automotive world that can be used to support both sides of this discussion, but the only examples that truly apply here are those speaking specifically about Ranger's with e-fans.
To that end, those of us that have personal experience with e-fans on our Rangers seem to be pretty happy with them. The only people here that are screaming about how bad they are, are the same people who have never used them on a Ranger. If you had used one, and had a bad experience, then your argument would hold a lot more water, but as it stands, you're only shouting theory, while there are many very happy e-fan users with first hand experience.

 

[Froggmann]

The only people here that are screaming about how bad they are, are the same people who have never used them on a Ranger. If you had used one, and had a bad experience, then your argument would hold a lot more water, but as it stands, you're only shouting theory, while there are many very happy e-fan users with first hand experience.

Amen. Big Jim hasn't replied yet on whether or not he has tested these products, we know that Bob hasn't--I suspect Jim hasn't either.

I'll state it again. Who's spreading false information, people with REAL world experience or someone that never tried the product but insists it's a waste of money based on his opinion.