chevy silverado 4 whizzer....been planning ecoboost...

[Craig0320]

I am currently in the market for a 2000 and up diesel because I want to pull 8k and over and feel more comfortable doing it with the extra power. I know I'm talking about a diesel and not a gas. Point is I do not care if the 1/2 ton says it will pull 8k just fine I will not do it on a regular basis. A 3/4 ton has always just felt more solid to me when pulling. All of it is just personal preference. I know some people who have pulled 7k regularly with half tons in lawn business's and have done just fine.

 

[Shran]

I read the title as "EcoTech" rather than xxxboost and was thinking of the little 4 cylinder Cobalts, etc.

I don't really have a desire to ever own an EcoBoost truck. I hear they are becoming well known for low mileage transmission failure. There is an awful lot of expensive moving parts under the hood... I'd equate them to hybrid cars, you have a double potential for failure rather than just the typical issues a normal gasser could have. Who wants to be stuck with replacing a $1500+ hybrid battery and then an engine/trans/etc in a short period of time? Same situation with the EcoBoost. Probably worst case scenario but it can and does happen.

If Ford would have come out with something like the LS engines in around 1997 instead of modular crap and invested heavily in it, and then a reliable diesel after 2003, I think we'd have only one company building trucks in 2018. Instead we have a lot of "meh."

I'd be real wary of a 4 cylinder in a full size no matter how much power it makes and I sure as hell wouldn't buy it if GM made it.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I don't really have a desire to ever own an EcoBoost truck. I hear they are becoming well known for low mileage transmission failure.

I think everything with high mileage trips on that step. NA have been doing that for decades.

 

[Shran]

Low mileage as in under 50k, these are probably all or mostly all in-warranty repairs but perhaps it'll be the next A4LD - time will tell. I talked to a guy who had three transmission failures in a 2014 F150, under 50k, all covered under warranty. Not towing excessive loads or other abuse, just flat out failure. From my conversations with a Ford technician buddy, it's a common occurrence.

 

[bobbywalter]

hmmm.


the transmission thing is a transmission thing. these units are stronger in most ways then anything before....i have heard of flash/tune shifting issues....no failures from non loaded use with stock programming.


i suspect most transmissions that are physically failed before 50 k have tuners that turn off the powertrain power restraining protection features so you can fry tires and run 11-12 second 1/4 miles at 115 plus through the traps...

if your friend has no tuners and a bone stock setup and drives like a reasonable responsible person with a 3.5 ecoboost... he is the only person to ever do it, and it might be the reason the transmissions keep falling out of it.


a turbo lima under these conditions and loading i would expect to die a quick and horrible death. and not be nearly as fuel efficient. being of similar power peaks.


the gasoline direct injection and efficiency of design in this turbo system and camshaft variation of the gm offering and to the same degree the ford stuff, makes all of the difference....


having your cake and eating it too can be done these days.

the big ecoboosts are in fact aging much better then i thought....

you may want to look at the actual production numbers and there are tons of these in excess with over 200k now and doing way way better then i could have ever hoped for.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

My brother (shop foreman at the local dealer) is so terrified of Ecoboost F-150 problems he bought one (3.5) for himself.

 

[91stranger]

hmmm.


the transmission thing is a transmission thing. these units are stronger in most ways then anything before....i have heard of flash/tune shifting issues....no failures from non loaded use with stock programming.


i suspect most transmissions that are physically failed before 50 k have tuners that turn off the powertrain power restraining protection features so you can fry tires and run 11-12 second 1/4 miles at 115 plus through the traps...

if your friend has no tuners and a bone stock setup and drives like a reasonable responsible person with a 3.5 ecoboost... he is the only person to ever do it, and it might be the reason the transmissions keep falling out of it.


Seriously???? I see more bad ass vehicles like sports cars and new trucks that just putt around town and barely do the speed limit. There's a ton of people who don't understand what a gas pedal is and drive like reasonable people. I also have heard many bad things about the ecoboosts. Also I see a lot of guys who own full size diesels and they consider going to a "half ton that can tow 10k" and change their minds really quick. Guys who drive real trucks know the difference in fake trucks that can tow 10k but they struggle to stay straight, stop, accelerate, decelerate and so on.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Seriously???? I see more bad ass vehicles like sports cars and new trucks that just putt around town and barely do the speed limit. There's a ton of people who don't understand what a gas pedal is and drive like reasonable people. I also have heard many bad things about the ecoboosts. Also I see a lot of guys who own full size diesels and they consider going to a "half ton that can tow 10k" and change their minds really quick. Guys who drive real trucks know the difference in fake trucks that can tow 10k but they struggle to stay straight, stop, accelerate, decelerate and so on.

Hmm, heard many bad things... but not about diesels.

 

[bobbywalter]

and thus the reason i put it up in the general forum of a ranger sight.

so its reasonable and expected that the majority of guys buying a fullsize truck will be taking a moment to deny the idea of a 4cyl. i would say if your over 18-20 years old the idea will be silly to you...but if your two or three years old, and your dad buys a 4 cyl silverado or a eco boost ranger and you inherit it when your 15 or 16....the idea of this question would not make sense to you. i really have to know the REAL WORLD unladen daily mpg before i can even think about any firm thought of this.


it is what it is, and i assume its normal. because its proving hard to gather up jeeps to run the benefits of the 4 whizzer ecoboost. i have been going to a few jeep meets here in ohio west virgina and pa gauging interests.

funny....biggest complaint for the older jeeps is low power and shitty milage.

so i pose the ecoboost swap for free and people just stop. just not sureat all.

they either think cummins or hemi. those are top, then its ls engine.

nobody likes or even accepts the idea of a 4 cyl turbo because of precepts... like i posted earlier i have experience with the little ecoboost guys, and know what they are capable of, and they are impressive.

the weight savings that balances a off road vehicle is MONSTEROUS for the performance gains. but we all have a mental block. it has proven a tough sell.





i have been fortunate enough to have driven or have owned 10-12 sec cars with 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 and 12 cyl engines over my life. i mention this because untill very recently the technology to pull off the power to displacement we have today did not exist and now that is does its shifting paradigms quickly. so i know there really was no way to effectively get it all untill the later engines..

so a bit more time will determine whether these paradigm shifts will stay or not. the gdi allows maximum use of the energy content of the gasoline pushing these engines into diesel territory. like modern diesels the complexity may prove too risky. the offset differential of diesel fuels energy content advantage vs emissions is at a point of wonder. regardless. this new engine is here and going into production.


so this silverado thing has my attention. the ecoboost will be cheaper right now, but this silverado 4 banger may be the better thing until we are all doing electric or diesel electric swaps...

you give me 4 solid 50-60 hp hub motors that can handle 42 in tires and i am in for that swap....

hmmm.


the transmission thing is a transmission thing. these units are stronger in most ways then anything before....i have heard of flash/tune shifting issues....no failures from non loaded use with stock programming.


i suspect most transmissions that are physically failed before 50 k have tuners that turn off the powertrain power restraining protection features so you can fry tires and run 11-12 second 1/4 miles at 115 plus through the traps...

if your friend has no tuners and a bone stock setup and drives like a reasonable responsible person with a 3.5 ecoboost... he is the only person to ever do it, and it might be the reason the transmissions keep falling out of it.


Seriously???? I see more bad ass vehicles like sports cars and new trucks that just putt around town and barely do the speed limit. There's a ton of people who don't understand what a gas pedal is and drive like reasonable people. I also have heard many bad things about the ecoboosts. Also I see a lot of guys who own full size diesels and they consider going to a "half ton that can tow 10k" and change their minds really quick. Guys who drive real trucks know the difference in fake trucks that can tow 10k but they struggle to stay straight, stop, accelerate, decelerate and so on.

everybody i know with a eco truck has a hard time driving "easy" as the rule...i am sure it gets done....sometimes. that said...for fleet use i would go 5.0...1/2 tons and 6.2 for the 3/4 and 1 tons using generic drivers...the modern diesels are costly and having reliability issues in the market i am working in.



well depending on what company i work for depends on what i am driving. i get to use many types of vehicles...

for fun....i work on and build all sorts of vehicles. but my main vehicle, my personal vehicle is a 30 year old pos ranger.

i am a diesel guy....i am an old school guy. i am a v8 guy.


i can say for sure the 2014 3.5 ecoboost 150 with air bags out performs a 2014 6.0 silverado 3/4 ton pulling the exact same trailer which was over 10 k.....

in every metric.

especially when unladen.

the gm rides like my ranger...great on smooth roads....need a kidney belt on shitty roads...of course with a 3/4 or 1 ton i expect lower ride quality...but surely....a 14 2500 gm should out ride my captain cavepig leaf sprung ford ranger?? but no...it does not...

that top towing equipped 150 i refer to, still rides like a modern 1/2 ton when you dump the air out of the bags........a cadillac by comparison.




the cost of the "real" truck vs the ecoboost when you tow less then weekly and less then 10 k is beyond justification for my ability to earn income.

the modern diesel at this time is hard to justify....

and i am a diesel guy.


if this chevy thing works out....it will be good for everybody with old trucks and jeeps...so i hope it is a success..

 

[Shran]

Are we having this discussion simply to discuss a potential new truck or is it geared more towards using that vehicle's drivetrain for engine swaps?

I am not totally opposed to a 4 cylinder full size but here's the deal: it MUST perform as well or better than it would with a V6 or V8. It needs to make power in exactly the same way that a bigger engine would, and it needs to be reliable. The last thing I want is a truck that loses its nuts when I put a load of gravel in it, or hook up a reasonably sized trailer. It also needs to be economical - if I'm getting 8mpg with that 4 cylinder towing a trailer and worrying about half ton size drivetrain parts, there is no benefit vs the V10 truck I have now.

If this is more of an engine swap debate - I hope if this comes to fruition, it has a SBC bellhousing pattern. THAT would be cool. LS swaps are so popular because they're easy and the physical package is fairly small - done right this has the potential to be the same thing.

 

[Truckedup]

I have a Ranger but other than that I'm a Chevy guy pretty much...When the F150 V-6 turbo came out all the Chevy guys said the same thing you're saying...Like it's it some buzzy little engine and not a throbbing V8...And it won't do the job............
GM has a knack for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory but they do have a history of gas engine turbo superchargers going back to WW2 Allison V12 aircraft engines, 60's Corvairs and the 215 cube Olds engine and the late turbo Colbalt...So in theory they should know how make it all work.....I think a big plus would be offering a 6 speed manual transmission with the turbo four...But that unlikely in today one footed driver's market..

 

[adsm08]

Corvairs, aren't those the ones that kill you if you are at a stop light too long?

 

[Truckedup]

Corvairs, aren't those the ones that kill you if you are at a stop light too long?

You must be thinking of Pintos...

 

[Captain Ledd]

I think that having that engine with a manual transmission would almost render it unusable actually. If it's developing some 350lb ft at 1,500 RPM that's some serious push. If you were on the throttle and were a little too aggressive on the clutch engagement I can see that grenading stuff quick. With an auto, particularly a fancy 8 speed, is going to have a much more difficult time lugging that engine.

I'd also go so far as to say that they've probably done some trick gearing in that trans and maybe in combination with some boost control in lower gears so that when starting, it may not reach full power/boost, but compensates for it with lower early gears.

I'm pretty convinced it'll get the job done surprisingly well.

I've towed tons of stuff with my little 4 cylinder Ranger. It hasn't necessarily been quick about it at times, but it's pulled it and hit highway speeds, even if only 60. My point is, you don't need enough horsepower and torque to pull thousands of pounds up hills and steep grades at 70 and hardly notice it, or be able to accelerate like it's not even there. I've also heard from some of the RV guys that these big diesel trucks will blow a tire on the trailer and be driving along for quite some time (usually until someone starts honking), because they make so much power they didn't notice the tire blown. You'd think they see it in the mirror but let's be honest about todays drivers...

Side note, I didn't see the Buick Grand National mentioned above. That had a "tiny" turbo engine and that thing was quick. If fact, out of the factory it was actually faster than the Corvette. Of course GM kept heir lips tightly sealed on that because they can't have their flagship/iconic performance vehicle be slower than some sedan.

*edit: Corvairs are unsafe at any speed, so if you're not moving, you're good.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

EB's are hard on fuel when you need power. There is no two ways about it if you need 400hp it is going to take about the same gas to make it no matter what engine you have. But if you don't need it often you don't have to feed a big thirsty engine full time. That is kind of their thing, you have a nice civil half ton for normal daily stuff, when you need to pull the boat or camper you have kind of have a pocket 3/4 ton truck... that instantly reverts back to a pleasant half ton when you drop the boat/camper off.

*edit: Corvairs are unsafe at any speed, so if you're not moving, you're good.

Did they have heat exchangers for the heater like a VW?

I know when they went out on my brother's bug we would get a lot of exhaust into the cabin, it is a very serious problem with light aircraft too.