The Deuce

[Boggin]

Doubler and gears aren't going to help me get thru the deep mud we have around here, need power for that.

yeah, you guys got the mud like i got here too. must be a northern thing lol, its just like the swamp. real sticky and heavy. hard on axles lol

 

[kris97ranger]

im never outta 4lo, but i love my 4cyl for fuel consumption and it does (or should i say did) really well for crawling and hills and that in 1st or 2nd, 4lo. then 2nd or 3rd in mud

but now like i said i dunno.... i really dont have room for a v8 in my off road truck lol (samurai)

 

[BONES]

yeah, you guys got the mud like i got here too. must be a northern thing lol, its just like the swamp. real sticky and heavy. hard on axles lol

Yup, except so far my d44 axles have held up to it, don't ask me how, lol. I have a feeling the under powered 4.0 has a bit to do with it. I'm sure chromo's will be in my future after the v8 goes in. To be honest I expected to be running chromo's by now because of axle failures, but low and behold I have not had to yet.

im never outta 4lo, but i love my 4cyl for fuel consumption and it does (or should i say did) really well for crawling and hills and that in 1st or 2nd, 4lo. then 2nd or 3rd in mud

but now like i said i dunno.... i really dont have room for a v8 in my off road truck lol (samurai)

May not be room for a v8 but I have seen 4.3's fit in there real nice like and they can make a ton of power in a small rig like yours. Actually my buddy has an LJ we're putting in a fuel injected 4.3 from a late 90's s blazer. The 700r4 is being adapted to dual Toy gear drive tcases and we're linking it on spooled Toy axles and he plans on running the 40" LTB's. This rig will be competition ready and he plans on competing with it.

I think had I not already played with several v8 off road rigs in the past, I may have been content with the 4.0, yeah probably not.

 

[supersamikc]

may have missed it but have you just considered doing a np435 behind your 4.0 for gearing help?

 

[BONES]

Good question.

I'm not a manual trans fan. Always having to shift at the inopportune moments turned me off of them long time ago. I'd rather be focusing on the trail a head instead of focusing on picking the right gear to be in for any given obstacle. Auto transmission all the way, no manuals for my wheelers if I can help it.

Rhetorical question for you manual die hard guys.
How is an np435 going to help me spin the tires fast in the deep mud and when the muddy water and debris enters the bell housing how is the clutch going to work? It's not, been there done that too many times. How will it help me not have to shift half way up that steep soft sandy hill climb similar to sand dunes? So I hit the hill climb in say second gear high range with engine revved out and half way up the hill the power starts to run out and then I need to shift real fast to keep up my momentum, yeah that's never ended well for me.

Actually I don't even see the draw to manuals for crawling, the clutch, brake and skinny pedal and I only have 2 feet. I understand if you want to keep the 4.0L you really have limited choices for manual and auto trans, but why limit myself to a low powered engine that gets v8 fuel mileage. Actually my Rover gets better fuel mileage than the Bronco and it has a healthy v8 under the hood and sitting on 40's. Not much better mind you but better and I have power to spare.

Don't get me wrong, the 4.0 was a great up grade from the 2.9, but running 38's with the 4.0 isn't the best for power to the ground. It wasn't as bad with the 35's but still found myself needing more power in the deep goo.

I like playing in the deep mud and there's no amount of gearing that will spin the tires fast enough with the low power output of the 4.0l. Even if I had 6.0diff gears, a 7:1 first gear and double low range I still wouldn't be able to chuck massive amounts of mud needed to propel my rig thru the deep sticky goo we have every where around here.

The Deuce is a 4000lb rig and I'm going to be building an exocage eventually to add even more weight to it. I get that gearing helps, but just not enough help in my eyes and not all in the right spots for me either. Now if I V8 it AND add a doubler I'll have the best of both worlds.

I guess if all I did was crawl around all day gearing and a doubler would be key but it still doesn't excuse the 4.0l's poor fuel mileage.

Fortunately deep mud requires healthy amounts of power to play in the way I like it!

Sorry manual trans guys, I'm not ragging on you at all, I just prefer autos for wheeling. Never having to shift in the middle of an obstacle is a great thing when momentum is key to a successful run.

 

[Andres629]

I agree with you on that, an auto does do wonders when crawling around and not having to worry about shifting... I'm just more a fan of being able to completely rebuild one in my garage. Plus, down here there's not much mud, and personally I hate the stuff. I think a good healthy v8 and an auto will work perfect for your application, for that's really what motor/trans. choice boils down to. I'm keeping a built v6 and stick shift in mine with a hand throttle, and that's all I need for my application. But yours is going to be a beast with a v8 in there, I say stroke the 302!

 

[supersamikc]

understandable, definitely going to need to be a healthy 302 with a auto, the way i see it the motor you gain with a stock v8 compared to v6 gets subtracted once you put the auto in there, they are just such power suckers, i know a few guys running np435's in mostly mud and they have never had a problem (deep cedar swamps). another reason i like manual is you don't get the over torque when you are on the gas and need to come to a sudden stop like with auto. but like you said it is all personal preference and it is one of those things you could argue about for years.
Awesome build by the way, i will be starting mine in 2 weeks or so, same axles and suspension but air shocks in the front and 37's. 4.0 NP435 haha

 

[kris97ranger]

ive never had a problem with mud in my bell housing. in fact i just pulled my trans and it was perfectly clean. (again toyota trans) i have heard jeeps have a problems with mud in the bell housings though...

i prefer manuals though i always found that in an auto it never knows which gear to be in when you start spinning up it thinks it can shift to 2nd then you dont have enough power so it drops back to 1st but then its too late. this would all be in mud as well

while crawling i could see the upside of an auto except for overheating them and such... still ike manuals

 

[BONES]

Parasitic loss in an auto is no where near what your saying, even the huge c6 only looses roughly 5% power, I'm gaining more than that for torque so it still a gain. The 4.0 doesn't have the torque to spin big tires fast, that's my problem, I cant spin em up fast at all and in fact I can barely spin em up slowly, lol. 220tq 4.0 or 350tq 351, the choice is easy.

Strength is also a moot point as an auto can be as strong or stronger than the manual too.

I have rebuild a few dozen autos in my garage at home, it's no where near as difficult as some people think.

I always install at least a stage 2 shift improver kit when an auto is installed, then you set up at what rpm it shifts at and you can also get it to stay in what ever gear you choose. Say you put it in 2nd gear while parked then drive away and it stays in second gear. No shifty trans here, I hate that too. If you put it in drive it with still shift automatically but put it in any other gear and it stays there. I could even go as far as making it a manual shift auto where it doesn't ever shift automatically. But shifting is instant, no clutch pedal push or arm throwing to next gear hole stuff, auto shifts instantly with no power loss to the ground.

Also a trans cooler is an absolute must have and the largest one you can get your hands on. I always remote mount it so it's stays fairly clean and has it's own fan. I've been playing with outs for 20 years, there simple and reliable when built and cared for properly, same as any manual trans.

I used to be the manual trans guy too but after lots of trouble in deep mud and water and always having to shift at the worse possible times, I had it with manuals.

It's true the arguement can go forever, it all boils down to what a guy wants out of his rig.

 

[supersamikc]

i must have missed the 351 discussion for some reason i thought you were going with a 302, i agree with you about having a built auto being very nice. i am more into crawling and am going to be doing competitions so i like like manual.

 

[BONES]

Yeah the fuel injected 5.0l I have will be the mock up or temp engine as it runs good still, the fuel injected 5.8l needs a refresh at the very least, so I'll slap in the 302 temporarily and then start building the 351 up. At least that's the plan anyways, budget minded. Since I have the 302 and it runs that's the route I'll go. 351 swaps in place without much issue after all the work is done. All this for an auto trans too. I do have the bell housing for the c4 to 4.0L as well.

Shit happens and you never know when or where so I may just go straight to 351 and piss on the 302. It's only a few hun to refresh my 351 as long as it doesn't need a bunch of machine work. I know I'd hate to do engine swap again and again so I may end up saying good bye to 5.0l to make up cash for 351 refresh

Unless I can talk my buddy out of his built 351 by the time the swap starts. He's trying to con me into swapping in his 4.6l out of a late 90's cougar. Problem with that is none of my tranys will bolt up to it. Naw I think I'll go with the sbf theme.

If I wasn't in the middle of buying a house right now I could grab this 351 powered 92 f250 my new neighbour has. It's very rusty but has good running 5.8l in it and he only wants 250 for it as it needs inspection to be road legal.

 

[supersamikc]

sell your 302 and 351 and buy your neighbors.

 

[bobbywalter]

sell your 302 and 351 and buy your neighbors.

yeah, what he said.

 

[Andres629]

x3!

 

[BONES]

Thats not a bad idea, wonder if anyone would want 2 engines they can't hear run to. Mind you sell for a 150 each and I'd be golden. Hmmm, thx for the idea guys!!