Question about winch

[James Morse]

I understand the principle of these non-metallic straps that are very strong but if they break they don't end up taking your head off like a chain or cable could do.
So, if you have a winch, you have cable. Is it safe? Do you use it in combination with the safe cords somehow?
Second question how much should the winch capacity be? Let's say it's 5000 lbs. To me in theory that means you could mount the winch on a 2-story building and lift the Ranger up into the air by its hitch. That seems plenty powerful. But maybe I'm missing something.
And there are different speeds. I would think if they don't have adjustable speed then slower is better?
I don't mind horribly getting like 9000 lb winch but the thing is that's more weight to be carrying around, takes a bit more space, and they will take more juice. But if you're running the engine while you are winching maybe the power draw doesn't matter except in the sense you want your wiring to spec.
Does anyone use those Anderson connectors? They seem pretty good, for the front you could have a set coming off the battery and for the rear, I'd have a separate deep cycle battery in the back to run accessories anyway. I'm not excited about wiring from the front to back but the right way to do it would be have the auto disconnect circuit so the rear battery charges but never draw off the truck's battery.
Seems like let's say a battery has 105 amp-hrs that's really not a whole lot, it's like hardly a kwhr, right?
Then you'd have a trolling motor battery right there too if you ever wanted one.
I'd definitely get the wireless control for the winch that's way better than wired. If they work.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

So, the cables are strong, but they can break and recoil. It’s usually suggested to put a blanket or something on the cable when winching to try and get it to drop if it breaks. You can, however, buy synthetic winch line. The more metal you can remove from your recovery gear, the better off you will be, but all of it involves some sort of danger. I remember years ago a shackle broke attaching a strap to a vehicle, the shackle stayed with the strap as it recoiled (it was a stretchy strap), and if I remember correctly, went through the windshield, drivers head, headrest, rear window, out the back far enough to stretch tight, then recoiled again and went under the vehicle where it wedged so tight they had to cut the strap. Now I don’t know if they weren’t using the right gear or procedures or just a freak accident or what, but the less metal you can use, the better. The forces involved when someone is stuck can be pretty extreme. Go watch some of the Matt’s Offroad Recovery videos on YouTube and the like. He often uses some soft shackles and I’m thinking that might be a worthy investment.

With winch ratings, say it’s rated at 5k, it will ONLY pull 5k on the first wrap on the drum, each successive layer reduces that. So the final wrap might be something like 4K or 4,500. Also, when you’re stuck, you’re not just trying to move the vehicles weight, you’re trying to move the vehicles weight out of whatever it’s stuck to. That can create an impressive amount of force needed. I have an 8k Mile Marker from a group buy on here years ago. My F-150 with the big trailer was stuck on the slope in my yard. I was probably around 7k and the winch wasn’t really happy about pulling that even though I wasn’t dug in, just had broke through the grass and couldn’t get enough traction with only one front wheel digging on the slope and the rear driveshaft broke. I almost had to put a pulley into the mix and wrap the line back to my F-150 to make it happen. The more wire got back on the winch, the less it wanted to pull.

I’d say 8k would be minimum for a Ranger. I should really have a 12k for the F-150. I don’t think you would ever regret having more winch, but you might regret less. Yeah, it’s bigger, it’s heavier and more power hungry. Synthetic line reduces some of the weight (steel cable is heavy). You can pull off a battery, but it’s always better if the vehicle can be running to reduce the draw on the battery.

 

[sgtsandman]

I'm pretty much going to echo what Lil_Blue_Ford said. Roughly double the vehicle weight would be the minimum. Generally speaking, a good rule of thumb for a working load is to triple the that number for the break force load. That is the basic numbers with anything that holds a load goes by. Double will work most of the time but triple will make sure it does the job.

One thing to know about winches and the type of rope used on them. Wire rope (cable) needs a roller fair lead and synthetic and face plate type fair lead without rollers. Wire rope is more likely to cut through something as it rubs against it, thus why they need the rollers. Synthetic rope tends to not hide a problem/possible failure point, where as a wire rope can (rusting internally). Regardless of which type of rope you go with, a blanket or something to force the rope down if it fails is a good practice. It also helps give people a visual of where the rope is so they can stay clear.

 

[Northidahotrailblazer]

I bought a cable winch because, my buddy couldn't get his synthetic winch rope out because it was frozen to the drum. It was in a real bad spot also, no one was a head of him and it was a challenge getting him out, but if the had a cable winch it would of never froze or we could used heat from the hand torch to thaw it. He even had a cover over it and it took a day in the warm shop to thaw it out. Yes I get it, its more of a chance of taking your head off right, But Don't stand where your going to get hit...Make everyone stay clear and the problem is solved. I work as a heavy equipment mechanic so this is standard practice to me others not so much. I've seen cables fail that you couldn't see anything wrong with them, same as synthetic straps. Everything fails if you don't take care of your stuff.

My 12K gen II smithy built is the same weight as a 9K gen II smithy built. I really could care less about weight, its not a race car.....

 

[sgtsandman]

I bought a cable winch because, my buddy couldn't get his synthetic winch rope out because it was frozen to the drum. It was in a real bad spot also, no one was a head of him and it was a challenge getting him out, but if the had a cable winch it would of never froze or we could used heat from the hand torch to thaw it. He even had a cover over it and it took a day in the warm shop to thaw it out. Yes I get it, its more of a chance of taking your head off right, But Don't stand where your going to get hit...Make everyone stay clear and the problem is solved. I work as a heavy equipment mechanic so this is standard practice to me others not so much. I've seen cables fail that you couldn't see anything wrong with them, same as synthetic straps. Everything fails if you don't take care of your stuff.

My 12K gen II smithy built is the same weight as a 9K gen II smithy built. I really could care less about weight, its not a race car.....

Good point on the frozen cable. No solution is perfect. Each has it's positives and negatives for sure. One just has to decide which negatives they are willing to deal with and make sure they know what those negatives are. Here, a frozen drum could be a real problem.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Good point on the frozen cable. No solution is perfect. Each has it's positives and negatives for sure. One just has to decide which negatives they are willing to deal with and make sure they know what those negatives are. Here, a frozen drum could be a real problem.

I have a potential solution… either two winches, one with steel and one with synthetic, or have the winch on a mobile mount and keep it in the cab or in the bed if there’s a bed cover or tool box.

 

[James Morse]

Thanks much this really helps.
My tentative plan is keep the winch and associated stuff in the cargo (tool) box and mount it to front or rear hitch as needed (don't have the hitches.... just planning right now).

 

[holyford86]

So, the cables are strong, but they can break and recoil. It’s usually suggested to put a blanket or something on the cable when winching to try and get it to drop if it breaks. You can, however, buy synthetic winch line. The more metal you can remove from your recovery gear, the better off you will be, but all of it involves some sort of danger. I remember years ago a shackle broke attaching a strap to a vehicle, the shackle stayed with the strap as it recoiled (it was a stretchy strap), and if I remember correctly, went through the windshield, drivers head, headrest, rear window, out the back far enough to stretch tight, then recoiled again and went under the vehicle where it wedged so tight they had to cut the strap. Now I don’t know if they weren’t using the right gear or procedures or just a freak accident or what, but the less metal you can use, the better. The forces involved when someone is stuck can be pretty extreme. Go watch some of the Matt’s Offroad Recovery videos on YouTube and the like. He often uses some soft shackles and I’m thinking that might be a worthy investment.

With winch ratings, say it’s rated at 5k, it will ONLY pull 5k on the first wrap on the drum, each successive layer reduces that. So the final wrap might be something like 4K or 4,500. Also, when you’re stuck, you’re not just trying to move the vehicles weight, you’re trying to move the vehicles weight out of whatever it’s stuck to. That can create an impressive amount of force needed. I have an 8k Mile Marker from a group buy on here years ago. My F-150 with the big trailer was stuck on the slope in my yard. I was probably around 7k and the winch wasn’t really happy about pulling that even though I wasn’t dug in, just had broke through the grass and couldn’t get enough traction with only one front wheel digging on the slope and the rear driveshaft broke. I almost had to put a pulley into the mix and wrap the line back to my F-150 to make it happen. The more wire got back on the winch, the less it wanted to pull.

I’d say 8k would be minimum for a Ranger. I should really have a 12k for the F-150. I don’t think you would ever regret having more winch, but you might regret less. Yeah, it’s bigger, it’s heavier and more power hungry. Synthetic line reduces some of the weight (steel cable is heavy). You can pull off a battery, but it’s always better if the vehicle can be running to reduce the draw on the battery.

The amount of kinetic energy that can be stored in a metal cable is nuts, no joke. Matt's offroad recovery posted a video just recently where he snapped a synthetic line, it didn't recoil far and didn't cause any damage or injury to anyone or anything, it's worth a watch just to see that part. He has also said in the past, part of the reason he didn't like using winches early on are the dangers that wire cable comes with, which is a good reason.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

The amount of kinetic energy that can be stored in a metal cable is nuts, no joke. Matt's offroad recovery posted a video just recently where he snapped a synthetic line, it didn't recoil far and didn't cause any damage or injury to anyone or anything, it's worth a watch just to see that part. He has also said in the past, part of the reason he didn't like using winches early on are the dangers that wire cable comes with, which is a good reason.

Yup, I saw that video and that made me serious about wanting to ditch the steel cable on my winch. I had always intended on doing that, but I even wrote myself a note of his recommendation, which was Freedom Winch Lines. I haven’t broke a cable yet, but I don’t want to.

 

[Josh B]

Whether it's a cable control or a wireless, both offers the ability to stand away from the likely path of a broken or busted cable

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I got a winch with a steel cable because it was cheaper.

3 years later I am probably going to be going to synthetic at some point. Lighter is a huge driver, the springy thing is another.

 

[Josh B]

One key point is to stay out of the path of it's expected trajectory. When that cable snaps it becomes something between a bullet and a whip, depending on its parameters. I believe being on a drum with a set anchor it would be more like the bullet. I have seen the whip factor, up close and personal, and it is something you never want to face.
On a drill floor in the Gulf, in the middle of the night, I do not recall why we were doing what we were doing, whatever it was. I cannot begin to recall, or even if it was sitting in the rotary table or in the kelly hole, but we were attempting to break something loose that did not wish to break.
I do believe I had set the lead tong and as it took its grip let it go and moved across the drill floor, supposedly safely out of the way, as the driller began to increase the pull on the tong. There were 4 iirc of us standing there in a row, as as the tension on the tong increased more and more I noticed the entire drill floor appearing to float, as if to fly away, and I ducked my head as it began to explode, the cable pulling the tong busted and the tong hit the end of the 5/8" snub line so hard it simply snapped, and continued across the drill floor to where we stood, hitting my hard hat as if it were the bulls eye. The guys standing beside me began to touch my head in disbelief, saying I should go to the galley or somewhere and catch a break, in spite of my repeating, g "I'm alright". Forty years ago my head might have been rolling across a drill floor, separated from my body, so yes, it is rather personal.
And see, the cable that broke was not even the cable that carried the tension, but was there intended to contain it

In the 60s and 70s there was a sort of woven Japanese toy that went on your finger, and when another finger was inserted into the other end it would grab them both, and the harder you pulled the tighter it would grip.

I believe something similar to that toy could be an answer to a cable flying across anything totally out of control. I do not know how far a particular cable will stretch when given a particular load, but IF that cable were to be wrapped with such a woven harness, one which didn't absorb any of the load, but was there to absorb instead a cable flying out of control.

Otherwise, and until that time, I highly advise staying out of any cables anticipated line of attack in case of a break, using any available distancing abilities

 

[James Morse]

Mass Damage snapping winch Cables - YouTube

Good vid, they use a bulldozer to exceed the strengths. Cord, when it snaps, still dangerous, but less so.
Steel cable seems to act rather unpredictably per descriptions of others this post, whipping around and going places you wouldn't have thought it would.
Amount of energy stored in the cable could likely be calculated. I suspect it is tremendous.
Not sure if this relates... seems to... on clavichords, if you break a string (that is the right string for the scaling), it's always at the tuning pin. You will notice it if you have to take strings out and put them back, you will expect maybe 10-15% to break (at the tuning pin). It's something about the winding of it that weakens it there.
To me this would imply that repeated winding of the cable will weaken it. Granted they are orders of magnitude different, strings are like .011" to .025" single strand and they are brass. But the same principle might apply.

If a chain/shackle arrangement breaks that is like a bullet on a wild path. It's all very bad. You'd think, if a cable snaps, maybe it'll scratch the truck? No, it'll actually tear things apart. And it's going really fast - they have some stop-action pics.

Cord recoils a lot too, just, it seems to be more in a straight line and maybe not lethal, but it could still really injure you, so are they safer, yes, a lot, but you still have to be cautious.

Sounds like I'd want to either buy a winch without cable on it, or, first thing, take off the cable and throw it away.

If a person insists on using steel cable, it might be a good idea to replace it from time to time if it's used a lot. Because of the winding of it weakening it, maybe. Others who worked with this type of thing a lot would know better than me.... just seems reasonable.

 

[Blmpkn]

What's the intended usage of your truck? What's wrong with a couple straps and a come-a-long?

 

[Northidahotrailblazer]

another thing besides the freezing I mentioned above, you cant rub synthetic cable on anything or it will fail and its why most of the towing industry hasn't went to synthetic.