Need some opinions TTB unloading problems

[Northidahotrailblazer]

I haven’t weighed it this year. Since the V8 this winter but I don’t think it’s changed that much the diesel and SBF were pretty close to the same weight. It was over 6,000 pounds, with my tent and everything in it, it was lighter this year, no RTT, not all the camping gear. Idk, I just want it a little more stable. I’m going to build bumpers, rear bumper simple and light, front bumper I’m going to put some weight into it, but nothing extreme. I think I just have to tune the rig a little more for what I’m going to be doing with it. I didn’t need, my spare, or all my crap on the rear. Here’s a video of me climbing haha

 

[Northidahotrailblazer]

 

[4x4junkie]

That’s an interesting setup. I need to go back and study that some more.

Yea it certainly made a big difference. Although the longer your wheelbase (also, the stiffer your coil springs), the less it will do for you since weight shift to the rear becomes less-pronounced with more wheelbase. But if it feels to you like your frontend is unloading too much on climbs, then certainly it still can help.

One thing I would change in it's design though is to use 3" pulleys instead of 2½" (again can be had from places like Ace or True Value hardware stores). The radius on the 2½ is just small enough to eventually cause strand fatigue within the cable, so have to replace the cable every few years/few dozen offroad outings. 3" pulley should solve this.

What tire did you find in a 34x9.50? It's hard enough finding 34x10.50 tires

Interco Super Swamper TSL.
Not a tire I would recommend for full-time on-road use (loud, harsh ride, vibrates (hard to balance/not very round), wears out real fast), but it makes a great lighter-weight spare that is close to the same diameter of my other tires.

I'm starting to see a few other "pizza-cutter" sizes appearing too, like 35x10.50R17 (Kenda), 35x11.50R17 (Nitto, Falken), etc. Toyo has a 34x10.50R17 as well. Most all of them seem to be for 17" (and maybe larger) wheels though.

 

[4x4junkie]

I haven’t weighed it this year. Since the V8 this winter but I don’t think it’s changed that much the diesel and SBF were pretty close to the same weight. It was over 6,000 pounds, with my tent and everything in it, it was lighter this year, no RTT, not all the camping gear. Idk, I just want it a little more stable. I’m going to build bumpers, rear bumper simple and light, front bumper I’m going to put some weight into it, but nothing extreme. I think I just have to tune the rig a little more for what I’m going to be doing with it. I didn’t need, my spare, or all my crap on the rear. Here’s a video of me climbing haha

Wow dude!
Ok, I just watched that... Throughout the whole video, but especially the first 3-4 seconds, your passenger tire is totally steered left, and your driver side tire steered right. That is 95% of your problem right there... Your tires are fighting against each other.
You need to go look at that steering page I linked here a few posts back.
I would not go a step further with anything else until you get that straightened out first.

What lift are you running? 4-inch?

 

[Northidahotrailblazer]

Wow dude!
Ok, I just watched that... Throughout the whole video, but especially the first 3-4 seconds, your passenger tire is totally steered left, and your driver side tire steered right. That is 95% of your problem right there... Your tires are fighting against each other.
You need to go look at that steering page I linked here a few posts back.
I would not go a step further with anything else until you get that straightened out first.

What lift are you running? 4-inch?

It’s around a 3 - 3.5. I had 4” coils on it but it was to tall, so I did early bronco 3.5 lift coils and it got my steering pretty straight across.
I need to read more on your steering page, I don’t have a picture but my steering is pretty much straight, I put a 4 inch drop pitman arm on it, and going to the shorter coils helped my alignment guy get things right. I wish super runner steering was still available.

 

[4x4junkie]

It’s around a 3 - 3.5. I had 4” coils on it but it was to tall, so I did early bronco 3.5 lift coils and it got my steering pretty straight across.
I need to read more on your steering page, I don’t have a picture but my steering is pretty much straight, I put a 4 inch drop pitman arm on it, and going to the shorter coils helped my alignment guy get things right. I wish super runner steering was still available.

Yeah them killing the Superrunner does suck. It wasn't perfect out of the box, but it did save a lot of having to fabricate from scratch.
Fortunately even from scratch it's not an overly difficult setup to build (a.k.a. K-link steering). One thing important though is that the idler arm alignment is correct so that the centerlink won't bind through it's travel (axis matches that of your sector shaft, and of your current pitman arm dimensions).

Ruff Stuff Specialties should have most of the parts needed to build one from scratch, although seems you may have to dig around the site a bit to find everything.
Bushed DOM Sleeves that can be used to replicate the idler arm, for example. They should have all the DOM tubing too. The material to make the bracket that mounts the tie rods to the centerlink may have to come from a metal supply house... It needs to be ¾" thick, and you'll need a standard-taper TRE reamer if you'll be using TREs (maybe you might have some of this left over from your SAS on your other rig).

You said you put a "4 inch" drop pitman arm on... Did you mean a regular dropped arm or the Skyjacker FA600 arm? Asking because the FA600 is the true 4-inch drop arm, while the one sold as a "4 inch" arm is really only 2-inch drop (and would cause your wheels to toe-in like that in your video). The amount of pitman arm drop needs to match with the drop amount of your axle pivot drop brackets (this is all explained on that steering page, along with setting the TTB ride height).

 

[Curious Hound]

I've been working on drawings for the K steering setup using hiem joints,heavy wall DOM tubing and 1 ton TREs. Was hoping to finish and rebuild mine this summer. But my solar camping project got in the way.

 

[Northidahotrailblazer]

Yeah them killing the Superrunner does suck. It wasn't perfect out of the box, but it did save a lot of having to fabricate from scratch.
Fortunately even from scratch it's not an overly difficult setup to build (a.k.a. K-link steering). One thing important though is that the idler arm alignment is correct so that the centerlink won't bind through it's travel (axis matches that of your sector shaft, and of your current pitman arm dimensions).

Ruff Stuff Specialties should have most of the parts needed to build one from scratch, although seems you may have to dig around the site a bit to find everything.
Bushed DOM Sleeves that can be used to replicate the idler arm, for example. They should have all the DOM tubing too. The material to make the bracket that mounts the tie rods to the centerlink may have to come from a metal supply house... It needs to be ¾" thick, and you'll need a standard-taper TRE reamer if you'll be using TREs (maybe you might have some of this left over from your SAS on your other rig).

You said you put a "4 inch" drop pitman arm on... Did you mean a regular dropped arm or the Skyjacker FA600 arm? Asking because the FA600 is the true 4-inch drop arm, while the one sold as a "4 inch" arm is really only 2-inch drop (and would cause your wheels to toe-in like that in your video). The amount of pitman arm drop needs to match with the drop amount of your axle pivot drop brackets (this is all explained on that steering page, along with setting the TTB ride height).

How do you think the easiest way to go about the idler arm is? Super runner is just a bushing setup right? I like how BlackBII did is, it looks strong and should last for a while. I have quite a bit of stuff left over from my SAS on my ranger. Haha So what your pretty much saying is that since the wheels are fighting each other, it’s basically driving up the suspension since toe and caster are changing so much, if I did a K link, that would take care of most of that. I really don’t see any other option. I think the stone crusher steer style isn’t the option from what I’ve read. I could lower it more and that would put my steering closer but I still think it’s going to do the same thing. It just needs more. I wonder how close the big bronco super runner is, but then again, what’s the point to cut down some parts, I can buy the builder parts for half of what that sells for…. Well I really appreciate everyone’s help. I’m just trying to keep this thing on the trail rubber side down haha

 

[4x4junkie]

Stonecrusher... Been awhile since I heard that name mentioned, lol.
It solved a couple issues, but created others that were almost as bad.

Yea your wheels trying to drive themselves toward each other puts a "pinch" on the suspension, which then pushes (raises) it up even higher beyond what the weight-shift unloading does (acting on it like a scissors-lift). Having the tie rods down at your beam pivots basically eliminates that scissor-lift effect by keeping your tires pointed more straight ahead (leaving just the weight-shift unloading, which is what the limit cable is to control).


Personally what I would do for the idler arm is use a poly sleeve bushing at the centerlink end of the arm and also have a TRE at the pitman arm.
The frame mount end of the idler arm can be another poly sleeve bushing (a longer tube (3½-4") would be recommended though), or maybe delrin or sintered bronze bushings can be used there too.
My thought is a poly bushing at the centerlink end will make it much easier to get the centerlink to move without it binding vs. with a more-rigid setup at both ends. The centerlink end of the arm has far less moment on it than the frame end, and so should not allow significant fore/aft movement of the centerlink.


I helped a friend with his setup some years ago on a 2dr Explorer running the same Skyjacker XJ springs I have on my BII (we used a Superrunner though):

It has a similar limit cable as mine, although we had to put his behind the axle due to clearance issues with the tube under the hood (you can see it next to the shock, somehow I guess i didn't get an underhood pic of the tube)
The way it drove kindof made me jealous (I think because of the new Fox shocks... Apparently mine are more worn-out lol), it rode & handled ssoooooo nice!!!



_

 

[SenorNoob]

I have to wonder, if you're building something anyway, why not full swingset? It actually looks simpler to build to me.

 

[Northidahotrailblazer]

lol I think a straight axle at this point is the easiest solution lol but I’d worry about bending full swing. I always pictured full swing for go fast stuff, so idk I’ve never seen anyone rock crawl with full swing.

I just want to try and make the best of this TTB. It rides so much nicer than my SAS’d Ranger.

Thanks 4x4junkie
I pretty much have everything to build it. Gives me something to think about. Definitely appreciate it!

 

[Jim Oaks]

I still think you need to address your weight distribution first, and then consider moving your rear spring hangers back and stretching the wheelbase a few inches.

 

[Northidahotrailblazer]

I still think you need to address your weight distribution first, and then consider moving your rear spring hangers back and stretching the wheelbase a few inches.

Oh I’m definitely going to do that also. Lol I have two much weight on the back.

 

[4x4junkie]

I have to wonder, if you're building something anyway, why not full swingset? It actually looks simpler to build to me.

K-link is gonna be easier on a 4x4...
Swingset (single-swing) gets simpler on a 2WD where there's no obstruction in the way that is the front differential housing. With the differential there, you have to get more creative with bends to clear both the diff, and the swingarms.

Like seen here:

I just want to try and make the best of this TTB. It rides so much nicer than my SAS’d Ranger.

That has always been one of the bigger reasons why I've always promoted the idea of building the TTB axle as opposed to jumping on the SAS bandwagon as was often the case some 20 years ago (the other of course being it's already there and (brake size excepted) is nearly as strong in the key areas that count as what many people were using to SAS with... a D44).

Agreed you probably don't want a swingset in the rocks, just due to the bends needed for it to clear the 4x4 diff. The K-link, while not quite "perfect" in the literal sense, can be built much stronger, since everything is straight (no bends) and will better-tolerate the forces put upon it when your tire jams up against a rock.

I think you'll be quite pleasantly surprised how much better your truck handles if you get the K-link on there successfully.

Good luck with it. And if you get stuck, we're here to help!