Need more fuel

[RideFord94]

I don't think RonD is saying I don't need a larger injector esp. If I'm running 170-180. If I have 19 lb injectors stock then I wouldn't need a larger injector for that amount of HP. A 14 lb injector would only just barely cut it for 170 hp. If I had 180 and somehow found a way to bump it to 185
-190 horsepower then I would have been thankful to switch to the 17 lb injector because my potential hp would be out of what a 14 lb injector could handle. Now like I said if Rangers come stock with 19 lb injectors, which I doubt, then this whole thread is for nothing lol.

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[JP02XLT]

If your taking intake air from under the hood / open element (read as increased air intake temp) your CAI is potentially costing you more than the possible 1-2 hp that it is claiming to make, just from the elevated intake temps & associated ECU timing adjustments alone.

Even worse if you have a nice stainless tube in the system, it will heat soak in a matter of minutes & transfer that heat into the air stream as well.

As for running out of fuel, you should be able to tell really quick if your running out of fuel as it will fall on its face in high RPM, high load really quick, they just quit pulling.

While the mods you made may have the engine flowing the air easier from the mild porting and gasket match, I would be hard pressed to say your making 30+ hp from them, especially without any hard part changes, cam, rockers etc to allow a chance for more volume of air.

So I would say your stock injectors, if they are spraying a good pattern will handle all you currently have done. As mentioned a tune with timing and fuel tweaks is an opportunity to get more / most out of what you have done. These 3.0's are very prone to knock, so there is not a ton of room to add timing as it can show up at various stages of acceleration & load.

If you throw lager injectors in it expect some idle issues, and the pump in a stock Ranger will loose pressure on larger injectors, so then your looking at diminishing spray pattern etc etc, the list goes on. Most tuners like to see the injector duty cycle in the 65-75% range, I have seen guys run on 80-85% for a while, and you generally see injector failures soon afterwards.

JP02XLT

 

[stmitch]

Now like I said if Rangers come stock with 19 lb injectors, which I doubt, then this whole thread is for nothing lol.

Don't base everything you know about the 3.0 on stuff you read on rogue's website. Most of his calcualtions and writings were based on older Vulcans that had many differences to the 98+ models. His 94' engine was OBD1, had crappy flowing intake manifold/throttle body design, a distributor, different exhaust, etc. Its possible that it may have come with 14lb injectors stock.

98+, while similar to older Vulcans, have quite a few small diferences with the older motors, including stock 19lb injectors for gasoline engines, and 23-24lb injectors on the Flex Fuel engines. Don't take my word for it though, try contacting Fred@ rogue, and see what he says.

The bottom line here, is that the only way to know if you need larger injectors, is to look at your fuel trims or air/fuel ratio. You can do that with a wideband a/f gauge or you can strap the truck to a dyno. A dyno run would end the speculation about exactly how much power you're making, and help to eliminate some of the guess work in the variables of your calculations. Like JP02XLT said though, if it were getting lean in the upper rpms, you'd be able to feel it drop off noticeably.

 

[Rearanger]

A dyno run would end the speculation about exactly how much power you're making

Exactly, he needs to quit the kitchen table math and get real info from testing.

I doubt he's getting much increased air flow to justify more fuel outside of what the motor was designed to give.

 

[RideFord94]

Dyno coming soon. I don't think I will be hard pressed to find 20hp. But now that I know the injectors aren't garbage then I won't have to swap them. Woo!

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[RideFord94]

If your taking intake air from under the hood / open element (read as increased air intake temp) your CAI is potentially costing you more than the possible 1-2 hp that it is claiming to make, just from the elevated intake temps & associated ECU timing adjustments alone.

Even worse if you have a nice stainless tube in the system, it will heat soak

JP02XLT

I believe in my CAI construction. Yes its a stainless tube with a 45 degree elbow throwing the filter up where the stock snorkel would be also 2 layers of cool tape on the pipe prone to heat soak. Ceramic coated Intakes as well forgot to add that. As well as exhaust manifolds sprayed inside and out w/ plans for wrap. I'm planning on keeping that air as cool as possible. Went crazy on the fuel rails with the rest of my cool tape.

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[JP02XLT]

I was not knocking your CAI, merely stating facts, I have a custom CAI built for my SC setup, it draws air from behind the grille area and uses the stock air box that has been highly modified for flow, I have the ability to measure temps at the Air box and after the blower, I can tell you that I see ambient air temps on the front side with the vehicle sitting still, moving vehicle, I see constant air intake temps that are 3-5 degrees cooler than ambient, the cooler the air to start with I see more of a drop from ambient. I monitor this all the time as this data works with the H20 system to choose when the H20 shots start based partially on air temp, I cool the charge prior to going thru the SC and after for knock control.

I worked on this CAI setup real hard, I wanted something stealthy and it had to work to help control temps, under hood temps on a Ranger are terrible, hanging an open filter out anywhere under the hood, & I guarantee your getting air in the 130+ range on a truck that is up to temp, maybe even a little higher in the summer.

I too have ceramic coated headers, y-pipe as well as a custom oil shield for the lower manifold to keep the hot engine oil off the manifold. I have insulated the fuel rails and the rail mounting points like you to keep heat off the fuel rail.

I like all you mentioned except the open element under the hood, I have worked on and seen too many to know that once the element is open to under hood heat, the party is over, it does not work to deliver the best air temp you can get.

Please post your Dyno results when you get the truck on the rollers

JP02XLT

 

[RideFord94]

For sure. Well I guess I still get to keep the extra mpg's in the likely event that you're right. I still wonder if it's in the same position as the stock snorkel why would temps go up that drastically? Simply because the increased amount of air/ambient air? Anyway we're strapping the intake on and hooking up the rest of the electrical and vacuum next time I'm at the shop. Hopefully tomorrow. Tax returns coming back soon. So I'm probably going to get a tune with before and after dyno runs cool and hot. Sounds like your setup is pretty sophisticated. What charger are you running?

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[JP02XLT]

Yes, any extra MPG's are a good thing with the 3.0, I started out that way searching for mileage, I soon decided since the mileage was crap, it could at least be built for fun.

As for the temps, poke your head and hands around under your hood next time you have driven it for 25+ miles or so, you can find the heat real easy. Harbor Freight has an infra red heat key fob that works very well to verify temps, its about $8 on sale.

Realize that your also letting a ton of it out when you raise the hood. The stock air box does a great job of keeping the heat away from the inlet air, I do agree the inlet on the box is very small and with it protruding into the fender well still see's some heat from the engine bay as well as the road, that is why I went to the front grille area, that is about as cold of an area as you can get, & high enough to get away from the heat off the road.

As for my truck I am running a Whipple @ 18 psi, with a good tune & a ton work on the heads, (5 angle valve job, springs, a set of roller rockers that work correctly}, polished / ported & intake. The bottom end is pretty much stock other than being blue printed for precise fit tolerances & balance, and micro polish on the crank.

Keep us posted

JP02XLT

 

[RideFord94]

Will do. This has been a 6 month project since my truck pretty much died back in october. Well see what's good tomorrow.

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[RideFord94]

Also. I've swapped with a 97 windstar I know it's miniscule but there seems to be 20 more lift on the intake cam lobe than the ranger top end. Will this make any sort of difference? I honestly didn't even know if I should count this as a 'mod'... what do you guys think?

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[RideFord94]

The information is via Advance Auto parts epc. They have different part numbers as well.

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[JP02XLT]

That is .020, not quite half your plug gap in terms of a distance to relate it too.

I have had four 3.0 various years and all the cams have been identical. Cam data on the 3.0 seems to be varied in what is in print. I have seen several numbers that said this cam or that one had more lift, just never saw it in person. Would it make a difference, could just not a huge change in terms of a cam shaft

On a good note the WIndstar engine should have the factory main stud girdle kit in it, this provides a bit of extra support to keep the mains from spreading, the Windstar was the only motor to have this due to the extra weight of the vehicle.

JP02XLT

 

[RideFord94]

Awesome. Well she started and sounded strong but now the flex plate won't disconnect from the starter. Hopefully we just need a shim to back it out a bit.

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[RideFord94]

So picked up a shim that happened to work perfectly for the starter. It was just barely contacting the flywheel.

Sooo... With one of the oxygen sensors reinstalled, a rewired in IAT sensor functioning for the first time in months, and fresh fluids, she fired and idled like a champ. We let it idle and my excitement grew as my truck started to sound better than it ever did in my ownership. Playing with the throttle revealed no ticks knocks or any other strange noises.

We decided to take a trip up to the store for some fresh gas and some celebratory supplies.
The truck ran AMAZING...With a feathered pedal... she floated along smoother than ever, the infamous rough idle tamed as much as I believe possible in any. 3.0

On the way back from the store I decided to let the rpm climb slowly for the first time. Without much delay the truck reverted back to what it had been doing in first place although not to the extent of the original problem. My uncle the shop owner immediately said it had already lost a cylinder. Upon further inspection the sparks weren't pure blue but had an orange tint with some blue. Hopefully just spark? ICM was my uncles first guess. It has a brand new BWD coil on it.

I'm still really pleased with the motor and the work so far however unnecessary it may have been :/

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