My New House & Workshop

[Jim Oaks]

More like this.....

 

[Jim Oaks]

BTW, Temporarily support the roof the length of the long beam, but the short beam is fine.

when you make the beam, Put for lag bolts on each end, sticking out where they will stuff the web in the block on each side, but not break it. Then mix a little mortar mix and drop it in that hole. It will bind the beam to the wall

Like this?

 

[Rick W]

Yep, and run a bead of adhesive on top of blocks

 

[Rick W]

Your shop, but I would still go wider. I’d go 6 inches past the clean out, and 6 inches past the gas meter. Then I’d put posts up at the gas meter. And I would cut off the clean out and put in a flush cap with the ground.

when you case it in, it will be between the two.

And again, you’ve got the idea right now on the header. It just has to go across at least two blocks

 

[Rick W]

And I just figured out why you don’t wanna reuse those doors. You sure you just can’t put a little caulk in the bottom?

 

[Jim Oaks]

BTW, Temporarily support the roof the length of the long beam, but the short beam is fine.

I'm not following you here.

Also, I had wondered if I could cut down the height of that cleanout, or if it had to be a certain height above the ground.

Ya, the doors are crap. They're all solid wood though (from what I can tell). I'm going to trim up the one that was the front door and make it a work bench.

I need to go back and re-read your posts to see if you posted what to make the wall support from so I can take out that door frame.

I also need to make a shopping list for all the long 2x8's I'm going to need for the joists and header and see if I can get them delivered, or break down and finally buy another car hauler to load stuff on. The short bed on my F-150 SuperCrew doesn't have much length.

 

[2drxploder]

the cleanout can be flush with ground, i would actually recomend it place like 1/8" below finish grade. be sure to seal threads teflon tape is fine, if high traffic area (like commercial use) get a traffic rated cleanout top, pricey but prevent future problems. another idea is place it about 2 inches below grade and install a irrigation valve box larger then cleanout over it to maintain access.

 

[franklin2]

I'm not following you here.

Also, I had wondered if I could cut down the height of that cleanout, or if it had to be a certain height above the ground.

Ya, the doors are crap. They're all solid wood though (from what I can tell). I'm going to trim up the one that was the front door and make it a work bench.

I need to go back and re-read your posts to see if you posted what to make the wall support from so I can take out that door frame.

I also need to make a shopping list for all the long 2x8's I'm going to need for the joists and header and see if I can get them delivered, or break down and finally buy another car hauler to load stuff on. The short bed on my F-150 SuperCrew doesn't have much length.

Temp support wall from ceiling to floor.

 

[Rick W]

Temp support wall from ceiling to floor.View attachment 60482

@franklin2 is on track here, except that red wall should go a couple of joists past whatever you’re going to take out on each side.

The temp wall should have a double plate on top with offset steams at least two studs apart. If you do 16 inches on center on the studs, that’s best, and you can probably get away with 24 inches.

Measure the space between the white ceiling in the floor, and build your wall on the floor quarter inch taller. Put it in place at the top with a couple nails, and then drive the bottom so it goes vertical with a sledgehammer. Do you want to pre-loaded, you don’t want to settle when you pull the wall out.

you need to be sure if you put it under that white ceiling, that the white ceiling will hold a load, and you don’t just crush the white ceiling.

@2drxploder is right that the cleanout can be cut really anywhere you want it. If you’re going to pour a concrete apron up to the door, I would make it a hair lower than the concrete so that there is no pressure on the pipe if you drive over it. Also, the cap on it now opens with that square knob sticking up. They make a cab that has a recessed square that you open with a half inch socket or such, so it’s flush with the surface.

Also, keep in mind that the drain pipe is vented and it drains. If a little rain water gets in, or a little vapor gets out while you’re figuring it out, it’s not the end of the world. So the cap really doesn’t have to be airtight. If you have any doubt about the height you want, just leave it a little bit long and put the female adapter on without glue. Then when you figure out where you want it, you can just pull the female adapter off, cut the pipe, and then put it where you want it.

And you seem sold on the sliding door, and if that’s what you want, God bless you. If you have the slightest doubt, call around some of the overhead door people and the steel door people, the commercial suppliers not Home Depot, and see if they got any scratch and dent or used that they will sell cheap. If it was my front door in my house I wouldn’t do that, but if I’m working on the back door of my shop which faces in AlAnd you seem sold on the sliding door, and if that’s what you want, God bless you. If you have the slightest doubt, call around some of the overhead door people and the steel door people, the commercial suppliers not Home Depot, and see if they got any scratch and dent or used that they will sell cheap. If it was my front door in my house I wouldn’t do that, but if I’m working on the back door of my shop which faces an alley....

 

[1990RangerinSK]

The actual opening is like 5'10" and my 33x12.5x15 on 15x10 rims give the Ranger a wider width than the door opening.

Well, shucks!

@Rick W
The outside edge to outside edge of my tires are 6'3", which Is why I said I need a 6'5" door.

FIFY.

 

[Jim Oaks]

Questions:

Should the temp support wall be 2x6's of can they be 2x4's?

Should I be concerned about what type of 2x8 I use? I've seen people recommend Douglas Fir, but Home Depot has Southern Yellow Pine and Red Cedar. The Yellow Pine is listed as #2.

@Rick W at one point you said to put foil under the header, but then you said "Yep, and run a bead of adhesive on top of blocks". Just wanted to clarify to put construction adhesive between the block and header.

I've heard that you should use pressure treated wood on concrete. You said that I didn't need to use pressure treated wood. Is there a reason people say to use pressure treated wood on concrete?

Why should I stain ad paint the header twice before installing it? What's the purpose?

I don't understand this: "Once the joist modifications are done, on each end of the new horizontals, glue and screw a double one by three strap along the length. That strap has to extend at least two joists past the work. I would screw & glue one down, and Bow it/bend it to swoop down to attach to the original trusses. Then glue and screw the second strap on top of it, offsetting joints then you can use the two by fours from the temporary wall to make your angle braces along the Ridgeline." Are you saying to do this:

I feel like the double 1.3 is going to snap. I know the original joists have a 2x6 running cross ways over them down the length of the building to keep the ceiling joists from twisting. Just wondering if this serves the same effect and how and why I need to drop it to the lower joists.

I don't think I have the ceiling height for a roll up door. 4-foot doors to swing out in an 8-feet opening with knobs and latches seem like they would be more work than creating a solid door that slides back and forth. Another reason for the barn door is that I'm thinking about trying to give the building a rustic barn look.

 

[Rick W]

@Jim Oaks


Should the temp support wall be 2x6's of can they be 2x4's?

2x4 should be fine on 16” centers. Double plate with offset seams on top, and single plate on the bottom. If there’s a seam on the bottom, just center it between two studs and screw a 14 inch splice on top. The top needs the double strap to hold the weight, the bottom needs a single strap just to keep the two by fours from going Squirrley

Should I be concerned about what type of 2x8 I use? I've seen people recommend Douglas Fir, but Home Depot has Southern Yellow Pine and Red Cedar. The Yellow Pine is listed as #2.

sorry for the mixed signals. Probably best to use the cheapest pressure-treated 2 x 8 you can get. Any Triple with the half inch plywood will be plenty strong no matter what you pick. I would still dry the boards in the sun (this is for adhesive adhesion, they’re usually wet from the treatment process when you buy them at Home Depot), glue them and screw them, and then I would still use a penetrating stain to seal them, and then paint them with Rust oleum or another alkyd based oil paint.

The tinfoil is to protect from bugs, but if they’re pressure treated that’s academic. Use adhesive when putting them down and still do the lag bolt trick

@Rick W at one point you said to put foil under the header, but then you said "Yep, and run a bead of adhesive on top of blocks". Just wanted to clarify to put construction adhesive between the block and header.

answer above

I've heard that you should use pressure treated wood on concrete. You said that I didn't need to use pressure treated wood. Is there a reason people say to use pressure treated wood on concrete?

Answered above

Why should I stain ad paint the header twice before installing it? What's the purpose?

it is to seal the wood. On pressure-treated, the treatment can evaporate and/or wash out. Most people don’t know that pressure-treated is still supposed to be painted. You only need one coat of penetrating stain, let it dry, and then use an oil based paint. On the ends, stain it twice and paint it twice because it will really sink into the grain of the wood from the ends. If you use a 2 inch roller, it just takes minutes. Doing this will make the header last forever virtually.

An option to the stain is just to use the same oil based paint, but mix it 40% paint with 60% mineral spirits. That will thin it out to where it really sinks into the grain which is what you want to accomplish

I don't understand this: "Once the joist modifications are done, on each end of the new horizontals, glue and screw a double one by three strap along the length. That strap has to extend at least two joists past the work. I would screw & glue one down, and Bow it/bend it to swoop down to attach to the original trusses. Then glue and screw the second strap on top of it, offsetting joints then you can use the two by fours from the temporary wall to make your angle braces along the Ridgeline." Are you saying to do this:

I feel like the double 1.3 is going to snap. I know the original joists have a 2x6 running cross ways over them down the length of the building to keep the ceiling joists from twisting. Just wondering if this serves the same effect and how and why I need to drop it to the lower joists.

Your sketch is correct except it should be attached to at least two joists on either end, whether it’s the first and second, or it’s the second and third. The purpose of the strap is to keep the bottom of the triangles even, and also to prevent the bottom of the triangles from twisting. I’m sure they used a 2 x 6 in the original structure because they are rafters and not trusses, but it’s overkill.

I understand what you’re saying about the one by threes breaking. As an alternative, you can cut 3 inch wide strips of 8 foot 3/8 plywood (always plywood not waferboard). Let it soak in water before you put it up, you shouldn’t have any trouble bowing it the way I described. It has to be glued and screwed to every modified joist, you can skip a joist if you have to when you’re bowing it down, but it has to be attached two joists on either side.

Still do a double layer with the joints offset by 4ft, and use Elmers waterproof wood glue generously instead of the construction adhesive. This will set up as the strips dry out.

I don't think I have the ceiling height for a roll up door. 4-foot doors to swing out in an 8-feet opening with knobs and latches seem like they would be more work than creating a solid door that slides back and forth. Another reason for the barn door is that I'm thinking about trying to give the building a rustic barn look.

in engineering and design there’s a term “function over form.” So first and foremost it has to work, and it should be convenient and easy to use. If you like the barn door/sliding door, go for it. Most of my suggestions are based on the fact that I’m incredibly cheap and I hate work, so I try to suggest things that are easy to do and not expensive. Once you get into “appearance“ it’s a matter of picking what you like and making it work properly, And what you want to spend. I don’t think there’s any wrong choice on this item.

I thought you had two metal doors. So if you picked up a third metal door, and three heavy duty hinges, you could connect two of them like a bifold door. They bolt right up to the frame if you flip it around, and With the casters on the far end of both sides, wait would not be a factor. And then there’s ways you can put slide bolts and locks so it’s secure.

And something I’ve been very good use of over the years. You can use flat doors or a flat sliding door, and then find a local art student who is looking for extra money, and painted to look like a barn door or a carriage house door or like Godzilla is coming out of it, whatever. I’ll bet you the art student would jump at 100 bucks if you just let them sign the work.

No dumb questions, keep asking, let me know how I can help

 

[Rick W]

On the 2x8s. You can use the cheapest pressure-treated you can find, but hand select them. Make sure there are no knots or irregularities around where it’s going to sit on top of the wall. Make sure there’s no splits or runs down the length. Look at the ends for splits or separation. You get the idea.

If there is a bow in the board up or down relative to the way it will sit, put the bow up.

if the boards cup when they dry in the sun, put the cups inward, And draw the edges in with the screws. You may wish to use a couple of clamps to pull them in just while you are screwing & gluing them, and you can immediately take the clamp off and move it over for the next screw.

 

[franklin2]

I understand trying to get the pressure treated boards dry before using them, but it's been my experience if you let them dry, they warp all over the place. If he did have some decent wet boards, he would have to go out and turn them over each day and spread them out. If you just leave them out there to dry, the upper side will dry before the underside and they will look like bananas.

When I use pressure treated lumber, I try to install it and get it nailed down as soon as possible. And you are right, wherever there is a knot, the board will have a crook in it there unless you get it nailed down good first. It's very difficult to buy good lumber now.

 

[Shran]

No way would I let pressure treated dry out on purpose. That's a great way to turn straight boards into a spaghetti mess. Nail it down wet ASAP!!!