My New House & Workshop

[Rick W]

More details. What do you think about making the double door a triple, with one side hinged together. It won’t come into the space anymore than the existing double. It’s not on the blueprint, but if you do this, the double will put a lot of stress on the hinges. I can show you how to mount a swivel and caster on the far end of the double on a spring connection, so it takes the weight off the hinges but will still easily roll across the floor.

if you call around salvage yards and door companies, I am positive you can find a scrap metal door, and one piece of the casing whether it’s the top or sides. The door doesn’t have to be the same width, but whatever you get will set the length of the header. Then just cut the door casing on top, and weld in a piece of the extra casing to get the right length. Then you
don’t have to worry about roll ups, garage doors, leaking barn doors, etc.

You’ll have to build a solid temporary wall no more than 20 or 24 inches inside the existing wall to temporally hold the roof. I highly advise you do this wall work before you modify the joists. If you modify the joists, and then weaken the wall even temporarily, well, just look at a video of Mount Saint Helens.

You want to make the header and paint it on the ground. It’s going to be pretty heavy to put it up, but two or three guys can do it. The header has to extend past the door casing over at least two rows of blocks. If you set the header on only the first block, the tendency is going to be that block will want to crack off towards the door. If you set it across two blocks, the force will go downward in a pyramid, and it will last forever. If any of those blocks are loose, simply reset them before you do the header.

It sounds crazy, but put a triple layer of tinfoil under the header wherever it touches the block, and on the ends. When you’re working with it, if you tear a hole, simply put a 6 x 6 double patch on top of it. This is to prevent moisture migration and bug migration into the wood. (BTW, if you put a double layer of tinfoil underneath your hat, this will all make more sense)

The reason I suggest a triple door, is because I would go nine or 10 feet out, you can cut on either side of the door or split it. It’s not going to affect the structure at all, as long as you follow the concept of extending the temporary wall, and the header, and the joist straps, etc. all at least two joists past what you’ll be working on. The wall is a box of blocks, you can make a vertical cut anywhere you want, and it won’t hurt. You could even do two double doors (four Doors wide) but if you do that, I’d have to check the header dimensions.

The header should be 3 2x8s glued & screwed together, BUTTT, to get the 8 inch width, add a half inch piece of plywood in between two of the 2xs. Use 8 foot lengths of plywood so there’s only one vertical seam. Similarly, put a plywood plate on the bottom to make it 8 inches high, use the 8 foot plywood, but put the seam offset to the vertical seam on the plywood. Use a penetrating oil based stain to prime the wood, and then paint it with rust oleum or with another alkyd Based oil base paint. Don’t paint between the 2xs when you glue them, just paint the outside. Double stain and double paint the ends, so it dries in the pores.

put glue on the top of the header before you let the roof back on top of it, maybe a screw every foot or two. If you have to, cut some skinny wedges/shims to raise the roof edge up above the header to get the glue in, and then pull the shims out

Then, do your joist modifications. Once the joist modifications are done, on top of each end of the new horizontals, glue and screw a double one by three strap along the length. That strap has to extend at least two joists past the work. I would screw & glue one down, and Bow it/bend it to swoop down to attach to the original trusses. Then glue and screw the second strap on top of it, offsetting joints

then you can use the two by fours from the temporary wall to make your angle braces along the Ridgeline. I have a drawn like a “v,”. But you want to double it to create”X”s.



if you want to pull an engine or such at only one point, Instead of the horizontal one X3 straps, use 2X4 doubles vertically, always offsetting scenes, always screw and glue. At each end, you’ll have to angle overlapping 2xs down to at least two joists. Whether you use the 1X3, or 2x4, The structural purpose is to keep the trusses from leaning over or warping. So when you extend the ends, it has to be a glued and screwed overlap that will work with the entire peace in tention. The strap is for warping and bending and separation.

If you want to put a chain fall on a trolley length wise or sideways, get the I-beam, and weld a 6” x 2” vertical plate on top, and then put that plate between the two by fours, and bolt it in the top quarter of the 2 x 4. If you want it lengthwise, just do the same thing, but bolt the plates through the new horizontals. whether you use the double 2x, or you use the I-beam, it should also extend a couple of joists past your modifications. Obviously it would have to be horizontal, so where it extends to the next two joists, just put a vertical 2x column underneath it from the horizontal to under that is glued and screwed, and you can stabilize it with a plywood overlapping plate on top and bottom.

and I put in a lot of bracing specs, but basically anywhere one thing joins to another thing, if there’s going to be a force in two or three directions, just make a plywood plate, or use a short 2 x 2, and overlap the gap/stick the 2 x 2 in the corner, glued and screwed, to stabilize it.

let me know any questions!

 

[Rick W]

RickCad is awesome!

It’s actually RickyCAD

 

[Rick W]

@Jim Oaks

Jimbo, I think I answered all the questions in the texts and the drawings, but don’t hesitate to reach out. There are no dumb questions

 

[franklin2]

Can you post a pic? Do you have any way to seal around it to keep some of the bugs out when it's closed?

I have not sealed around the door. Here's what it looks like. Maybe someone has a link to some seals or wisker strips that would work. I haven't had any bug problems, I do have mice that get in.

 

[franklin2]

Here's my ceiling modifications. It hasn't fallen on my head yet.

 

[Rick W]

Afterthought. Whether you have a double door or a triple door. On triple, you want to slide bolts up and slide bolts down at the hinge on the double side, as well as at the farthest point of the double side.

everybody drills a half inch hole in the concrete for the half inch bolt, if that’s what you have. Drill a three-quarter inch hole, and then set a piece of half-inch pipe into that hole with more construction adhesive, let it sit. Then the bolt goes into the pipe and wires on the pipe instead of cracking the concrete.

for the lock between the two doors, even though you’ve got the slide bolts on one side, use one or maybe even two of the old fashion locks that have three loops on one side and three pens on the other side, so when you lock it it’s like a chain-link, you can’t kick it past the length of the bolt. If you’re worried at all about security, I’d put one about 2 feet down from the top and about 18 inches up from the bottom. They’re like $10 from eBay/China, and you can get 10 of them that are keyed alike

For the top slide bolts, I would make up a little plate about 6” x 3”, and screw it into the bottom of the header before you place the header in place, obviously so the slide bolt will go through the hole in that plate. They’d have to knock the wall down to knock the plate loose

 

[Rick W]

Here's my ceiling modifications. It hasn't fallen on my head yet.

View attachment 60404

You have the advantage of a steeper roof angle. The steeper the angle, the more you’re pushing through the joists instead of bending the joists when it sits on top of the wall. One of ‘Jim’s biggest problems is that roof is so shallow

 

[Rick W]

Afterthought afterthought, if you want a taller entrance door, we can do that too, but I need to know before you start ,

We’d have to put the header in higher, which would create a roof modification over it. Still pretty easy to do. And I would recommend the taller and wider now will save you headaches later. Just let me know

 

[Jim Oaks]

Here's the outside of those double doors.

​

You can see the sewer cleanout on the left, and gas meter to the right. The meter sits roughly 32" to the right of the current door opening.

The width of the block opening is 76" (6'4"). The height of the block opening is 82" (6'10").

The distance between the frame opening is 70.5" (5'10-1/2")

I need at least 7-feet width to comfortably get my Ranger in and out. Three doors means a door jamb is in my way.

I need a minimum of 76" (6'4") of door height to get my Ranger through. I'd like to have at least 80" (6'8")

So a 7'x7' opening would work. 8'x7' would probably make the door opening more 'standard' for a garage opening. Obviously the wider the opening the taller the header I'd need and the shorter the opening.

I had briefly wondered if I could use the metal frame that's in there, and widen it with a section of metal frame from the metal frame I just took out with the front door (same style of commercial metal door frame).

If I had doors on hinges, they'd have to to swing out, not in. I wouldn't have room to open them with a vehicle parked inside.

Hinged doors put stress on the frame, that's why I was thinking that I'd go the sliding barn door route. Plus that means I'm not pulling around the ends of open doors when I pull in and out of the alley.

I'd need a sliding door track over the door where those cinderblocks are.

 

[Jim Oaks]

I have not sealed around the door. Here's what it looks like. Maybe someone has a link to some seals or wisker strips that would work. I haven't had any bug problems, I do have mice that get in.View attachment 60403

Where did you get the hardware for your slider (track and rollers)? I can't tell, is there a roller at the bottom to keep it from kicking out? Can you post a picture of it?

Thanks!

 

[franklin2]

I have two wheels. The black one is store bought and keeps the door against the building when it's shut and when you slide it back. If you didn't have that, someone could just pull out on the door and squeeze through when it's locked on the other side. The white one is one I homemade, my door sticks out beyond my garage when it's fully opened, so the white one keeps the wind from getting in it.

 

[franklin2]

I bought everything from Lowe's. But I found out not all Lowe's carries the barn door track. Tractor Supply carries it, but they were too expensive. Another cheap place to get it is a place in my area called Rural King. They have very cheap prices.

They have large holes to lag the brackets to a wooden frame. But what I did was drill smaller holes on either side of the large hole in each bracket, and then used two blue tapcon screws in each bracket.

 

[Rick W]

I need at least 7-feet width to comfortably get my Ranger in and out. Three doors means a door jamb is in my way

No. Think of a bifold door on one side, and a regular door on the other side. No center post.

I had briefly wondered if I could use the metal frame that's in there, and widen it with a section of metal frame from the metal frame I just took out with the front door (same style of commercial metal door frame).

Yes, exactly, that was in my diatribe, just splice it in the middle on top. 3rd door will determine splice length. Was the front door metal? Use that for 3rd.

My triple doors can swing in or out, the security and waterproofing is simply different. If you want them to swing out, when you have the frame out to modify it, simply install it the other way around.

you can put a spring loaded caster on each side where the doors meet and take all the load off the hinges. Think of a wheel on the bottom of a coil-over shock, where the center rod is threaded and you can adjust it up or down for proper tension.

my home-made laminated header is probably fine for a 12’ wide free opening. After 9 feet, you may want a 1/4 or 1/2” arch, so loaded it sits level. It won’t break.

see R15 below. With a slight modification of the higher horizontal member, you can raise up the door height. You extend the new horizontal out and let it sit on the header/wall, and cut away the angle member under it.

to do this, you’d have to strip the shingles/plywood off just that area, run a second angle member to the roof, and then RE-roof it. It will be too shallow for shingles, so you’d want to cover it with a metal roof, a flame down membrane, or some other kind of membrane roof. It probably also needs to have a slight peak over the door, and it should extend out towards the Alley a little bit.

to make that work, you’re doing the same thing of doubling up/beefing up a couple of the pieces by the door that are outside the original triangle, but with the new angle board, it’s really not that much.

 

[Jim Oaks]

Looks great! This is what I need. How did you mount the track to the cinderblock? I feel like that door would be heavy and want to pull out of the block.

Did you make the door or buy it? If you bought it, where did you get it? Is it aluminum? Wondering if it's lighter than a wood door.

 

[Rick W]

Better elevated header detail