My New House & Workshop

[1990RangerinSK]

How did we get back to cutting open the roof and building it up higher with windows?

I just want to find a way to move the ceiling joist up 10-inches on my rafter. I thought a possible solution was gluing and screwing an additional 2x6 to the side of the rafter from the top plate to 24-inches higher than where the new joist sits (10 inches higher).

Was @Rick W Saying to cut the old joist even (angled) with the bottom of the rafter?

Apparently there was concern about supporting the cut end of the old joist (where I wanted to add a box / tray) by hanging it off the new joist, so I figured I'd ditch that and just drywall the whole length of the new joists from wall to wall.

I'll take the blame for cutting the roof, building a perpendicular gabled roof, and installing windows in the gables. It's all my fault (please, please please don't ban me!!). I was thinking of clearance. With a shallow slope, you won't have much (I know you only need enough for the roof of the cab). It was a simple matter of giving you more room. As for the windows, if it was my place, I'd really enjoy the extra (natural!) light.

 

[Rick W]

Here’s R7, some more detail on how that scab would be made and installed. Clearly people aren’t understanding that, hopefully this will clarify.

The calls to use steal are valid, you will end up with an indestructible structure, but it’s probably pretty overkill. The other issue with using the steel, is it’s going to create a point load on top of the block wall. So you either have to take out some block so it will sit below the existing roof, make mounting plates, modify the roof so it can sit on top of the existing wall, and you’d probably still have to build an additional block column on the inside to dissipate the point load. Or a steel column which would have to be installed on a new footer on each side.

I think we’re zeroing in on a modification to the rafters that will do everything you need but it will also be minimal work. Two options, the scissor truss, or raising the horizontal bar and beefing up the angle rafter between the horizontal bar in the top of the wall with a scab.

Keep in mind that almost everything the guys and I have done so far is to show the modification to the rafter member. You also have to have a couple of angle supports along the length of the building, and you need a couple of straps along the bottom of the Modified rafter to keep those modified rafters from tilting over or from warping over. There’s also a way you can do it with one of them so you could hang an engine off it with no trouble.

When you decide on a plan, will get to those details

 

[Jim Oaks]

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New joist on one side of the rafter. Scab glued and screwed to the other side of the rafter from the top plate to 24-inches up past the new joist.

Forgive my doodling. I ate my crayons in elementary school.

 

[Jim Oaks]

You all worry about my roof. HA!

It ain't the roof that worries me. I think there's a doable solution for the roof that I can do on my own with some guidance.

My real concern is the 6-foot door opening on the side. I need to make this an 8-foot door opening to drive through. Or just a little under as long as I can get a Ranger through it. I'm planning to use a 9-foot sliding barn door unless there's a way for a roll up door to fit and have room for the area that the door rolls up in to. I feel confident that when the metal door frame comes out, the block above it will fall out, and the top plate might fail. This is where a steel frame my come in handy.

 

[franklin2]

I think I mentioned before I really like my sliding barn door. You do need a certain amount of roof height for a regular garage door to curve around and sit against the ceiling. And if you ever want to work on your truck with the door open, you can't do it with the door above it in the way.

 

[Rick W]

View attachment 60373
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New joist on one side of the rafter. Scab glued and screwed to the other side of the rafter from the top plate to 24-inches up past the new joist.

Forgive my doodling. I ate my crayons in elementary school.

You’ve got it. Basically Every place would touches would you want it glued and screwed. And the scabs should be cut that it’s sitting on top of the wall just the way the angled part of the joist is sitting on top of the wall. Conceptually you’re just doubling the width of that angle member extended a couple feet past the new horizontal.

And just to be clear, the new horizontal should be the same size as the horizontal you’re removing. Do you want to put the scab on and the new horizontal on and let the glue set before you cut the bottom horizontal. The new horizontal should have tapered ends so the four angle goes right up against the roof, the maximum surface area between the two members.

And no problem on the doodling. I realize most of you guys have not gone to engineering school and it wouldn’t be easy to produce the fancy blueprints like I’ve been providing.

More to follow...

 

[Jim Oaks]

I think I mentioned before I really like my sliding barn door. You do need a certain amount of roof height for a regular garage door to curve around and sit against the ceiling. And if you ever want to work on your truck with the door open, you can't do it with the door above it in the way.

Can you post a pic? Do you have any way to seal around it to keep some of the bugs out when it's closed?

@Rick W "And just to be clear, the new horizontal should be the same size as the horizontal you’re removing."

So if I have a 2x8 joist now, use a 2x8 to replace it. I was going to buy (1) and then reuse the one I took down from there on.

 

[Jim Oaks]

@Rick W when you say "glue" you mean:

NOT:

Correct??

I read to use 16d nails. What size screws should I be using and how many to attach the new joist to the rafter??

 

[Uncle Gump]

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

You all worry about my roof. HA!

It ain't the roof that worries me. I think there's a doable solution for the roof that I can do on my own with some guidance.

My real concern is the 6-foot door opening on the side. I need to make this an 8-foot door opening to drive through. Or just a little under as long as I can get a Ranger through it. I'm planning to use a 9-foot sliding barn door unless there's a way for a roll up door to fit and have room for the area that the door rolls up in to. I feel confident that when the metal door frame comes out, the block above it will fall out, and the top plate might fail. This is where a steel frame my come in handy.

View attachment 60374
View attachment 60375
View attachment 60376​

Build a temp wall 3' in from the door to support the roof until you've put in the door and header you want.
And yes you can seal a sliding barn door to keep out the majority of bugs and weather. I have pics but on another hard drive that isnt hooked up to a computer. I may have posted pics into garage journal but its been several years ago.

 

[Rick W]

Yep, that will work. Only possible pain in the butt is I’d let the glue set 3-full days, 72 hours before I cut the existing. If you want to recycle the 2xs, that means you’d have to do one every three days.

If you (very rigidly) support the ridge beam from the floor, you can do more than one. Maybe one column for every two joists. If there’s a cut in length of the ridge beam, make an 18” long plywood plate the same width as the ridge board and glue & screw one on each side. That is not only for a joint in the ridge beam in the area you’re working, but if there’s a joint within about 3 feet on either side, strengthen that with the plywood plates too!

If you use temporary columns, cut them 1/2” too long, position them at top, and then bang them level at the bottom so you actually push up a little on the ridge. When you complete everything, and take them out, no matter how good you do it, the new section will probably settle a little bit. This will simply make it level. If your garage floor is smooth, that’s it. If your garage floor is rough that would make it hard to drive the column into place, cut it a half inch shorter, and put down a half inch plywood plate that is centered properly under it. It will be easier to drive across the plywood than a rough concrete floor. Remove the column and the bottom piece of plywood when everything is done (all glue set 3 days).

With the cost of wood, you could just use gold or platinum columns, but they’re not readily available. I’m as cheap as they come. You could use a 3 inch or 4 inch schedule 10 pvc pipe, The kind you use for drainage in the yard. Set it on a couple of two buys if it’s not long enough. It should be rigid enough to carry the weight and push the roof up that half edge, and when you’re done, if you clean it up, you can take it back to Home Depot!

The braces in R9 and these plywood plates should set 3 days before you start cutting anything. 1/2” plywood, not wafer board or 1x or???

I’d do an extra joist on each side of what you think you need.

And I’ve included some guidance on gluing and screwing. But having done that, remember the only thing the screws really do is pull the two pieces together so you get the correct glue placement and curing. So if you have to buy the screws, do what I said, but if you can find a couple hundred screws on craigslist that are at least 2 inches long, it’s no problem to go cheap

longitudinal angle bracing to follow, and door framing & work

 

[Rick W]

@Rick W when you say "glue" you mean:

View attachment 60384

NOT:

View attachment 60385

Correct??

I read to use 16d nails. What size screws should I be using and how many to attach the new joist to the rafter??

Weatherproof/waterproof liquid nails.

And I provided screw details in last post. There’s nothing wrong with nails when you’re building the whole thing from scratch, because it’s all designed with those kinds of details around each other.

It’s not in the training manuals, it’s sitting in the middle of my gray hairs, but if you’re going to modify something in an existing structure, if you glue it and screw it it’s almost fail safe, it will be stronger than the original structure. It’ll take you a few more hours on a project like this, and you’ll be able to park ranger on top of it in addition to underneath it it! (I’ll show you the roof access ramp details later!

 

[Jim Oaks]

Weatherproof/waterproof liquid nails.

So then you're talking about construction adhesive.

I generally use screws like these. No pre-drilling.

 

[RobbieD]

I realize most of you guys have not gone to engineering school and it wouldn’t be easy to produce the fancy blueprints like I’ve been providing.

RickCad is awesome!

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

So then you're talking about construction adhesive.

View attachment 60389


I generally use screws like these. No pre-drilling.

View attachment 60390

Deck screws are great. I buy in a box of several thousand for treated wood. Its not much more money and then I dont worry about treated wood. Treated wood should be used up against concrete, especially floor plates of walls.