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Make sure you get paid when you wreck your truck


Because an accident includes medical injuries up to a few years after the claim is made. MRIs and physical therapy bills from back injuries are expensive. Also, if you really want to get down to it: the average accident may not cost 250,000 in payout to a customer, but follow the paper trail back to the salary of people working to labor, parts, traffic stopped, people late for jobs due to traffic stopped, it adds up.

Also, one of the many states I'm licensed to sell in is New Jersey. There state required Liability limits are a JOKE (15/30/5!). Therefore you have crammed courts with people suing others for not having insurance, and you also get people who have brand new cars having to obtain money for his damaged car because of UNINSURED people driving around. Maybe your car and home aren't worth protecting, but I know theres millions others who are quite happy.

Face it. Insurance brings happiness. Do what you want. But be sure that your life would be worse without it, and if you do drive without it (Which I'll bluntly tell you I have) be prepared to pay a fine, lose your license, lose your home, or ruin someone else's life that you injure.
 
Edit: Oh, and btw, where did you get the idea that the average accident costs a quarter of a million dollars?

That's the property damage and medical payout of my auto policy. That's where I got that number.
 
My replies in bold:
I understand your sentiment, but remember that the 18yo WANTS to drive and there are companies out there who will insure for less. If you look. Per the State of Texas: Driving is a privilege. Not a right. If you want to be on the road driving you have to prove you're responsible enough to obey the laws, and cover damages in case you cause them, thus, paying for your insurance. Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you buy insurance, I lived in a small town with no public transportation and I didn't get a vehicle until I was 20. I survived.

No, they're not holding a gun to your head and making you buy insurance. Unless you want to drive (which is almost a necessity for a job these days unless you live downtown where there's public transportation)

Also, $1500 is a very high deductible, which you chose and you legally had the right to change your policy. Obviously you didn't check to see how much the value of your vehicle was before you chose that deductible. Insurance is a network that supports others. You, and other policyholders are keeping everyones as well as your own claims covered.

I had the legal right, but not the ability. State Farm had the lowest rate and the lowest deductible when I was looking. And that claim I attempted was early in my driving career. My deductible and rate are lower now, but they'll never pay out more than I have paid to them.

You don't pay a guard to stand only when a thief breaks in, you pay a guard to be always vigilant, even if no break-in ever occurs.

I should have the right to choose whether or not to hire the guard who says he'll always be vigilant but sleeps the night away, ignoring thieves. That's all I'm saying.

Also, you should probably check State Farm's reputation. I get calls ALL day from people changing from State Farm who are pissed off at them. It's up to how you manage your life.

Well, their reputation must've changed since I chose them. Actually it's been a while since I shopped rates, I should check again.

Also, because you pay for insurance they MUST pay out? What kind of ridiculousness is that? Have you heard of insurance fraud or incorrect information? How do you pay for a vehicle that's worth less than the deductible they chose? Are they supposed to pay $4000 for a $500 car?

Where did I say that? I never said they should've paid out the $1500 that my deductible was, especially since I agreed (well, was forced to accept - it was the lowest deductible an insurance company in my area would give a young male at the time) to that number. It was more an example of how the companies attempt to weasel out of paying anything.

Yeah, there's optional insurance in a couple of states. Do you know how awful the constituents of that state get f'ed? They pay MORE because idiots don't have insurance, cause accidents and then shrug. If insurance was optional, and nobody carried it except you, do you realize how expensive it would be to repair your vehicle without that huge support network?

If they don't have insurance, it shouldn't affect those who do have insurance. They should get utterly and totally screwed if they choose not to have insurance and can't pay for their accidents. Are the victims making claims against their own insurance after accidents that aren't their fault? If so, then the system is flawed. The government should seize their assets and give it to the victims to pay the costs as well as cover the rest itself and garnish the paycheck of the person at fault for a while into the future to recover its money. That's how I'd like to see it work, anyway.

Oh, and I know exactly how expensive it'd be to repair my truck if I totaled it without insurance (which I have liability only anyway, so the cost would be the same now). It'd be $3800 to replace it, the price I paid for my truck two weeks ago.


How does a cell phone company survive it's overhead if you aren't paying for service? How does a shop survive if you don't pay for labor?

Easily. Because there are people choosing to use that cell phone company and people not choosing to use that cell phone company. They'd have to be a smaller company, but they'd be profiting from those who do choose to use it's service. I'm not clamoring for free insurance. I'm clamoring for the right to choose.

I bet you also find the stock market unfair, since you obviously buy things and then you don't get money back.

Nope.

Should we REALLY get into health insurance? So we can argue about who is going to treat injuries for free? About who is going to go to medical school and pay the ridiculous costs so they can make peanuts treating injuries the public deems unnecessary to pay for?

Health insurance is easy. Those who can pay themselves or paid for insurance get treatment. Those who can't pay themselves and don't have insurance don't get treatment. It's that simple.

Know you financial situation. Know your vehicles value. Drive safely. Understand math and statistics. Know what coverages you have on your insurance. And be sure to remember that there's no such thing as a free lunch. (Sonic fast food coupons don't count.)

I do know my financial situation. I do know my vehicle's value. I do drive safely. I do understand math and statistics. I also know what coverages I currently have. and I'm not asking for a free ride. I have a suggestion for you though: Know how to read and understand what you're reading.

Also, if you really want to get down to it: the average accident may not cost 250,000 in payout to a customer, but follow the paper trail back to the salary of people working to labor, parts, traffic stopped, people late for jobs due to traffic stopped, it adds up.

Does the insurance company pay for the people in traffic? Only include those factors that are actually relevant please. If you add the average injury cost to the average property damage cost and the price of a tow/etc of the average accident. I guarantee it doesn't come out to a quarter of a million dollars.

Face it. Insurance brings happiness. Do what you want. But be sure that your life would be worse without it, and if you do drive without it (Which I'll bluntly tell you I have) be prepared to pay a fine, lose your license, lose your home, or ruin someone else's life that you injure

It might be worse if I was legally allowed not to have insurance and chose not to. But I don't have that freedom. I'm not talking about ignoring laws. I'm talking about changing them.
 
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That's the property damage and medical payout of my auto policy. That's where I got that number.

That's the max they'll pay out. Not the average.
 
Question for OP: out of curiosity, why do they make you pay a deduction if you make a claim. I mean, If you pay every month why should anyone have to give you 500 or so more dollars just to make a claim? Isn't that what people pay for every month..

Never really looked into any of this, just been a question on my mind for a while.

Also, Why if someone were to get a ticket for lets say speeding, their insurance goes up. I see that the insurance providers are led to believe that you are more prone to get in an accident, but what if your vehicle has POPD (bear minimum coverage) and obviously they will total out a vehicle from the 80's era. and you will be left with nothing. Is this just to cover the other vehicle, but what if its there fault. Again, why should I pay a deduction now on a vehicle what will be considered a total lost to them. It seems like the driver would actually be loosing money in the end.(Hypothetical situation)
 
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What we're initially dealing with is insurance either a scam, or not a scam. We're also I guess arguing over if it should be mandatory.


"No, they're not holding a gun to your head and making you buy insurance. Unless you want to drive (which is almost a necessity for a job these days unless you live downtown where there's public transportation)" No proven point here. If you want to drive, follow the law and have insurance and be responsible. I can just as easily state that it isn't necessary, there are coworkers, means can be found, and there are jobs in the area you don't have to drive for.

Also, States mandate how much an insurance company actually can make off of a policy in their area. They aren't gouging you, they're trying to run a business, not a charity.


"I had the legal right, but not the ability. State Farm had the lowest rate and the lowest deductible when I was looking. And that claim I attempted was early in my driving career. My deductible and rate are lower now, but they'll never pay out more than I have paid to them."

Also earlier: "my deductible was $1500 so they didn't pay a cent, despite the thousands I've paid"

Did you get paid anything over the deductible? If so, then the insurance worked. You paid less than you would have not having a deductible, regardless if it was a mere $5 over. If they didn't pay anything at all then you hadn't met your deductible. As for the not paying out as much as you've paid them, you're once again paying for the constant protection. You're paying for the guard.

"I should have the right to choose whether or not to hire the guard who says he'll always be vigilant but sleeps the night away, ignoring thieves. That's all I'm saying."

I agree we should always have a choice, but I think it's important that it's required. But he isn't there to just guard your belongings. He's there to make sure you are ABLE to pay at least SOMETHING in a timely manner to the one you've wronged. There isn't a choice in that. How do you make sure the person is able to pay out for all the expenses incurred if they cause an accident? Is the other person REALLY supposed to be laid up in a hospital waiting for the other guy to make his medical payments (if that guy even can)? Or should he be able to rely on the fact that the perpetrator can cover at least most of the expenses? If you had the ability to choose not to have insurance, how would you pay for that guy? If you don't have the saved up money, how would his doctors be paid? Who pays for it? Are they to wait the 10 years it takes you to pay it back?

"Well, their reputation must've changed since I chose them. Actually it's been a while since I shopped rates, I should check again."

Definitely! I always recommend people shop around. Regardless of our opinions and beliefs here, try to find cheaper. Prices can fluctuate damn near monthly.


"Where did I say that? I never said they should've paid out the $1500 that my deductible was, especially since I agreed (well, was forced to accept - it was the lowest deductible an insurance company in my area would give a young male at the time) to that number. It was more an example of how the companies attempt to weasel out of paying anything."

You didn't. I'll correct myself there. Also, I never recommend anyone choose over a $1000 deductible. I would suggest my customers to go with just liability depending on the value of their vehicle, but if your car was worth over $1500 and you paid it due to a claim, that would suggest they paid out more and you didn't have to pay over $1500 to get your car fixed. You're paying what you're responsible for. Their estimate of the damages suggests that you would have had to pay MORE than $1500 to repair your car. (I know you understand that, its more for the benefit of anyone else reading this and it does still prove my point that you should make sure your policy is tailored to your situation.

"If they don't have insurance, it shouldn't affect those who do have insurance.[shortened]Are the victims making claims against their own insurance after accidents that aren't their fault?"

Yes. It's called Uninsured/Underinsured Bodily Injury or Uninsured/UI Property damage. It's what happens when the other guys don't have insurance but they need their stuff paid for. You aren't required to make this claim. It is your choice.

The government should seize their assets and give it to the victims to pay the costs as well as cover the rest itself and garnish the paycheck of the person at fault for a while into the future to recover its money. That's how I'd like to see it work, anyway."

It's called subrogation, the insurance company goes after the guy who didn't have insurance, but the U/UIM BI or PD coverage allows the victim to have their losses covered in the meantime. Insurance company takes the responsibility of sicking their legal dogs on'em ;)


"Oh, and I know exactly how expensive it'd be to repair my truck if I totaled it without insurance (which I have liability only anyway, so the cost would be the same now). It'd be $3800 to replace it, the price I paid for my truck two weeks ago."

Good that you know that, always important of course when choosing a deductible or knowing what coverages you need. Off topic: Do you have a build thread btw?

"Easily. Because there are people choosing to use that cell phone company and people not choosing to use that cell phone company. They'd have to be a smaller company, but they'd be profiting from those who do choose to use it's service. I'm not clamoring for free insurance. I'm clamoring for the right to choose."

I was referring to the issue that insurance companies have to cover the expenses of their other customers as well and your premium goes towards your coverage as well as others. Since it is very rare for everyone to have a claim at once (think Hurricane Katrina) the company keeps a running pool and shifts funds around to cover the claims. In the event of a catastrophe and a bunch of claims, if the insurance starts to run out of money, the insurance company has insurance, called a Reinsurer. (You usually won't find much on that stuff! Also, it's a big secret who reinsures the major companies)

"Nope" (In reference to the stock market comment)

Obviously I'm passionate about this, my apologies for digging at your character.



And I certainly have demonstrated that I know how to read (and write decently!) and understand. That's a silly statement. Also, I mentioned "the average accident may not cost 250,000 in payout" but the comment is "The average accident costs...' All of these factors can be relevant. You're just talking about the PAYOUT, not the COST. If you're talking payout, absolutely, most people aren't getting a 250,000 check.

Also, check out a little more on the states that do not require insurance. I believe one is Montana (I'm not licensed there so I can't remember at the moement). They have more problems and more lawsuits but you don't hear as much because they have lower populations, but I really don't see how being forced to have insurance is infringing on rights.

It allows those out there to be able to comfortably know they have some way to redress losses for medical and property damage caused by another, and that aid will come promptly (relative) in their hour of need.



Oh and PS, adsm08, he is correct. That's a maximum payout. If you have 250/500 you have some damn nice liability limits. You can pay out up to 250k for each person injured, up to half a mil for all injuries you cause in an accident. That's 2 people at 250k each, or 5 people at 100k each or any combination there of.
 
Question for OP: out of curiosity, why do they make you pay a deduction if you make a claim. I mean, If you pay every month why should anyone have to give you 500 or so more dollars just to make a claim? Isn't that what people pay for every month..

Never really looked into any of this, just been a question on my mind for a while.

Also, Why if someone were to get a ticket for lets say speeding, their insurance goes up. I see that the insurance providers are led to believe that you are more prone to get in an accident, but what if your vehicle has POPD (bear minimum coverage) and obviously they will total out a vehicle from the 80's era. and you will be left with nothing. Is this just to cover the other vehicle, but what if its there fault. Again, why should I pay a deduction now on a vehicle what will be considered a total lost to them. It seems like the driver would actually be loosing money in the end.(Hypothetical situation)

The purpose of a deductible is to prevent everyone from calling in a claim for something minor that can be fixed cheaply/easily. If everyone called in about a paint scratch and they had to pay out for every claim, the manpower and funds needed to move that operation (not to mention the resulting increased rates for everyone) would be pretty bad. In some places and some companies, you can choose a $0 deductible and claim anything whenever (but may have to suffer an increased rate upon renewal. Also, you can usually choose to have a $0 glass deductible so that any windows broken are free but any other sort of damage you pay the normal deductible.

Tickets statistically show that your driving is more unsafe than others and the lack of safety could lead to an accident. And are you in Michigan? Michigan is actually no-fault, so your company covers your own damages. Your BI liability is actually only good for if you're in another state!

If you don't mean Michigan, the Liability (or PLPD or POPD whatever you call it) is designed for their vehicle and their injuries. If it is their fault they pay for your injuries and property.

You will only ever receive a check from an insurance company after an accident if you have Collision coverage, or the other guy's insurance covers your stuff (because it's his fault)

Also, if its your fault, and the accident was covered by collision, you can choose to pay the deductible or not. If they total your vehicle out, it's almost always more than what your deductible is (which means you still technically gain).

It's late, let me know if I was unclear on those answers and I can clarify in the morning.
 
Gotcha. I'm from Indiana.

Also when you first posted about claiming the big expensive parts that you put on, does that only stand if you have full coverage?
 
Holy Crap, too much reading. I appreciate the OP's desire to help. Adding to that, as you know, it's easy to run up a bazillion dollars in damages;....way more than your coverage, which makes YOU liables for anything over the policy limits. Also, if Javier Guadalupe Rodrigo Hernadez hits you with his uninsured 1974 Ford F-150 (with a Brauma Bull sticker on the door) and hurts you, your PIP (personal Injury Protection) is usually only about $10k. So, if you get really hurt, your on your own. So, what I recommend to EVERYONE is for God's sake, get an umbrella policy. They cost about $200 a year but cover YOU for anything over your policy limits up to a $1M. Trust me, you will sleep better knowing you are covered all around. Every attorney I know has an umbrella policy!
 
Hit and runs are considered to be a Not at Fault accident, and ARE a rating factor. I've got one on my record as well, causing my insurance to be more as well. Statistics over the past 30 years have supported the fact that once you get in an accident, you're actually higher risk and more likely to file a claim. Also, you can blame the idiots out there who are fraudulent. They're one of the main reasons it increases. If your car gets hit 3 times in a 6 month policy while parked, you're obviously parking it in a bad spot, you're enough of an accident magnet, and you're costing the insurance companies more to insure you.Welcome to the psychology of insurance.
I should have clarify that it was backed into TWICE...At my apt. complex & at work....And of course I made claims ! The damage was so intense that the whole driver's door had to be replaced & new rocker arm welded in. Nuff said..

If you don't mind me asking, why do you think it's a scam? Is it from a personal experience?
I know this question is for Pruples, but I'd like to add that my sister was driving her car on Main Street in a small hick town & some truck driver (who was parked on shoulder in wrong direction) jumped out of cab and lands smack dab on windshield. So guess who 'got it in the rear' with higher insurance rates (for the next 5 yrs)??
 
ClaytonBigsby: You are correct, you can be held liable, always try to go with something higher than the state minimums if you can. Also, PIP is different in each state. In some states it can pay up to 250k but in Texas and others (like where I am) the PIP base limit is 2,500 and maximum is either 10,000 or 25,0000. With an Umbrella Policy you'll need to check and see if it's available. Usually you have to have the maximum liability limits available on your Auto policy before they allow you to have an umbrella policy. Also, attorneys (and doctors for that matter) usually have what's called Malpractice Insurance. It's a must!

det107: That definitely does suck. Depending on the company (With almost all this is true) the claim lasts for 3 years on your record, then falls off. As with most of our systems in the US, they tend to support the needs of the many. As with the trucker "hopping" in front of the car, I know that REALLY sucks. It's basically neither persons fault, because neither of you could have possibly seen him. but the law will almost always take the side of a pedestrian, which he became when he hopped out of his truck.

Just like our legal system, it "mostly" works, and it does fail some people, but it'd be worse off if we didn't have it at all.

Also, I know this is after the fact, but those claims should fall under Uninsured Motorist Property Damage. The deductible is usually less expensive than a Collision claim. If you don't have UMPD in your state or you didnt have the coverage you can claim it under Collision.

Also, although paying the sky high insurance rate is bad, remember that it could have been worse if she didn't have the insurance that paid out to the trucker. Even if it went to court unfortunately he would STILL probably win because the prosecutor would have related him to a small kid chasing a ball running across the street. :(
 
Well guys, I just wanted to apologize to all, I don't think either Pruples or I intended for this to become a long thread arguing about insurance, so regardless of what you read on here remember the Original Post. If you do have any questions about insurance hit me with a PM and I'll happily answer questions I can.

Please remember that I am not a claims adjuster, I am an agent. I sell it and help my customers understand it. Your claims department will have the final say on whatever happens to you (including fault-finding and estimates)
 
I didn't read all the posts, but what about buying a bond. I thought in Ohio you either had to have insurance, be able to show financial responsibility, or have a bond.
 
i also work for an insurance company and i understand the OP's rant. i run into the same thing every damn day and it's annoying to explain it to everyone. people that dont like insurance companies dont understand how it works. you get a copy of your insurance policy when you have one written, it's nobody's fault but your own if you dont understand what you're paying for. each policy lists exactly what is covered and what is not covered and the limits for those coverages.

plain and simple, a deductible is YOUR assumption of risk. instead of the insurance company taking all the risk, you're basically saying, "hey, make my monthly premium lower and if i have a loss, i'll pay part of the repair costs."

if you want a dirt chip monthly premium, your deductibles are going to be huge and you'll have less coverages.

insurance optional? are frickin kidding me? so you're telling me that when you rear end john smith's 2011 mercedes benz, you're gonna fork over the $10k it's gonna cost to repair it out of pocket? and $500 for a rental vehicle for him to drive around while it's being fixed? and $5k worth of medical bills from him claiming to be injured?


here's all you need to remember about insurance:

you get what you pay for, not less, not more. people want to have dirt cheap insurance and then not have pay anything when there's a loss. does that really make sense to you? the best thing you can do with a policy is be a safe driver, dont get a shit ton of tickets and dont use it. that'll keep your rates low so you can afford better insurance.
 

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