long time ago issue... need new advice

[bflooks]

hey guys, not sure who is still here from a year and half ago, but if anyone can help me out, it would be most appreciated. allow me to give some background on the whole situation...

i am a toyota guy to start, so ford/mazda's are new to me...

a year and a half ago, 3 of us attempted to get a mazda b2300 (1997) running after it had sat up in vermont for 3 months. after many weekend trips up and working on the truck in 20 degree weather, we finally got the timing belt replaced (thanks to advice given here) and got it to start for about 10 seconds. new problem was that it wouldn't start again, so we left it for the rest of the winter up there and towed it to mass. this spring. we were breaking in to doing all 8 plugs, wires, etc. to figure out the cause, and ended up having to remove the head because of a snapped plug on the primary (intake side). all that is fixed and the truck is back together now, and the timing tensioner spring has been replaced as well. so now we are current...

when trying to crank the motor over, we are not getting any spark. fuel is going, the engine is turning over fine, but that is it. we have tried arching the wires and coils and there is NO spark at either coil pack. with the ignition in the on position, there is power at the center pin on the plugs. we have a haynes manual, and it says to check the packs, which we did, and both seem to fail that test. what are the odds of this?

we have also read somewhere that a bad crank position sensor and a bad cam position sensor could cause no spark. same goes for a bad ecu ground, but this has been ruled out.

any and all help/suggestions would be MUCH appreciated! we are sick of working on this truck now, and it is so close to being running again... we could really use some of your expertise to help save ourselves from wasting time on foolish possibilities.

 

[Dave R]

Are you getting ANY trouble codes? Normally, the computer's are pretty good at self diagnosis. What test did the coil packs fail? Spark (lack thereof) or resistance (open circuit)?

 

[RobbieD]

Hey man! I remember you, and you're still working on this darn truck. Wow; ya'll are a tenacious bunch, ain't you? Like Dave R said, see what codes are there. Keep posting; we'll all either get this truck running or else have a heck of bonfire.

 

[TireIron]

well double chack and be sure the auxiliary sprocket on the timing belt is set correctly because that controls the cam sensor, and check to make sure the crank and cam sensors are not damaged and are plugged in and the wireing isnt damaged.

checking the codes will be good also, because if there is an issue with the actual ECU then in most cases it wont even be able to connect to the scanner properly.

 

[bflooks]

hey guys. thanks for hte replies...

yeah, we are still working on this thing. it sat for a LONG time because none of us could get together to work on it. we ended up removing the top end back in february, and we just got back to it and put it all back together with new seals and that stupid little $53 tensioning spring for the timing belt.

we got everything perfectly timed, so i don't think that is the issue (we actually had light and could feel our hands this time). we will recheck all of the connections for damage and try to get a code reader (truck hasn't started this time around, and i don't remember seeing a check engine light, but i will hook up the obd reader anyhow.

both coil packs failed both the spark test as well as the resistance test. however, the wiring has power on the center connection with the key in the on position, but that is not showing after the plug.

it looks like we are meeting up again this sunday on it, and i will hopefully have internet connection this time (only computer in the shop we were using was locked), so we will post up some real time findings and hope that someone with more knowledge is on at the time.

thanks again guys!

 

[RobbieD]

Another thing to look at that you didn't mention is the Ignition Control Module (not the main ECM, or ECU). Should be bolted to the intake manifold.

 

[bflooks]

Another thing to look at that you didn't mention is the Ignition Control Module (not the main ECM, or ECU). Should be bolted to the intake manifold.

i saw one box with a mess of wires on the intake side, and another box with less wires on the exhaust side. i believe those are the only 2 connections that we did not remove and clean out... gawd i hate electrical issues....

 

[RobbieD]

It's on the intake manifold. It's something that actually finally crapped out on my 350,000+ mile '94, and pulling the computer codes pointed me right to it. Just another thing to consider looking at when you dive back into this thing.

 

[bflooks]

okay, please school me on this one... even if there is no check engine light, on the mazda/ford platform... could there still be a code? reason being, i am going to ask someone close to where the truck is to see if the cel stays on or not. if it doesn't, i don't want to rule that out and will get the obd tool. however, if it triggers the light with any and all codes, and the light is not on, then i won't waste my time getting the tool.

 

[RobbieD]

I can try and give you a very simple desription, based on what little I know from thrashing on my older OBDI trucks. There's continuous memory codes, (CM) which are stored and can be past events. There is a self-test routine, key on engine off (KOEO) where the ECM looks everything over checking for problems, and finally there's key on engine running (KEOR) where the system does its checks while running. Your '97 will have OBDII management, so be sure to use the right scanner. Depending on what it is, having a code does not neccessarily light the CEL. Hope that this basic info helps.

 

[Dave R]

It's on the intake manifold.

'95 and newer engines do not have a TFI module.

 

[RobbieD]

Thanks, Dave, for straightening my bad. I thought the ICM carried over.

 

[bflooks]

I can try and give you a very simple desription, based on what little I know from thrashing on my older OBDI trucks. There's continuous memory codes, (CM) which are stored and can be past events. There is a self-test routine, key on engine off (KOEO) where the ECM looks everything over checking for problems, and finally there's key on engine running (KEOR) where the system does its checks while running. Your '97 will have OBDII management, so be sure to use the right scanner. Depending on what it is, having a code does not neccessarily light the CEL. Hope that this basic info helps.

this perfectly explains the answer to what i was asking. i will pick up the reader regardless. thanks.

 

[TireIron]

Do you know anyone with a known good coil pack that you could try? Even if you only get one you can try getting the passengerside running as that is the side it uses at startup. It may not run right and give a code with the other coil unlugged, but if you can get it running with one known good one then you can try getting a second. Maybe find one in a junkyard cheap (try testing it to see if it reads the same as yours first)

 

[bflooks]

Do you know anyone with a known good coil pack that you could try? Even if you only get one you can try getting the passengerside running as that is the side it uses at startup. It may not run right and give a code with the other coil unlugged, but if you can get it running with one known good one then you can try getting a second. Maybe find one in a junkyard cheap (try testing it to see if it reads the same as yours first)

i found both on car-parts.com for $40 shipped and have them in hand. i went with this option because it isn't even my truck, and i am not spending any extra cash to help someone if we don't even know if it will start again. lol!

if it proves to be the packs, that would be AWESOME!