FORD`s super secret Megazilla V8

[rusty ol ranger]

And because it isn't a 2.9 you could run it everyday too.

My 2.9 runs everyday.

 

[97RangerXLT]

My 2.9 runs everyday.

you took the bait..



AJ

 

[rusty ol ranger]

you took the bait..



AJ

Somes just to good to pass up man.

 

[JohnnyO]

I wonder if it has something to do with variable valve timing....doesnt that use oil to operate?

I seem to recall hearing that all or most VVT engines require synthetic oil.

It's a fleet engine. Besides the fact that every oil change costs money, time spent getting oil changes is time that the vehicle isn't making the company money. "Up time" is huge for fleet businesses, and it's something that modern diesels have struggled with. For those that may not need to tow 20k on a regular basis, this engine makes tons of sense from a $/mile perspective vs a diesel or Ford's other gassers even.

Even if you're not charging by the mile, when I worked as a driver at an HVAC company as I mentioned earlier, if my truck was in the shop they had to find something else for me to do because I was still getting paid even if I wasn't driving. Much more costly when a van from one of the union plumbers or steamfitters was in the shop since they made a bunch more money than I did.

 

[JohnnyO]

Ford was working with a company called Orbital in the early 80's to get a 2 stroke engine for use in the Escort. It got great mileage and made good power until they leaned out the oil mixture enough to satisfy the EPA. Then it started having durability problems. If you run a 1 liter 2 stroke that makes the power of a 2 liter for 1/2 the fuel and it pollutes 25% more as measured in parts per million out the tail pipe, you still reduced the total pollutants. But the EPA measures pars per million, not parts per mile, so we burn more fuel. Between the EPA regulations and extra weight to meet the crash standards, it took until 2008 for a Focus to deliver the gas mileage that a 95 Escort got.

In Europe you can get a lot of little cars with diesels. In Italy I saw a Focus diesel, a couple Chrysler minivan diesels, and a lot of Jeep diesels. Also a lot of little shitboxes which like the diesels, would never pass emissions in the U.S., and a lot of them I'd guess wouldn't pass crash standards. Saw a lot of older Fiat Pandas, which is essentially a Yugo. But over there gas and diesel is $8 a gallon so fuel mileage is more of a priority than emissions or crash protection.

 

[sgtsandman]

On the earlier discussion about the Ecoboosts. The reason we don’t see them in work trucks is because they aren’t designed to be run in boost mode all the time. They would crash and burn long before N/A gas engines and diesels designed for such work would.

They are meant for the occasional weekend hauler and not for every day hauling. Yes, diesels have turbos too but they run at a lower rpm and the turbos are bigger. They were designed to be spooling all the time. There would have to be a major rework of the Ecoboost engines to perform the same duty. And they still probably wouldn’t handle the long haul miles a diesel can do.

The 7.3 seems to be a good middle of the road between the weekend warrior trucks and the turbo diesel bruisers for those that don’t need the turbo diesel.

 

[JohnnyO]

The 7.3 seems to be a good middle of the road between the weekend warrior trucks and the turbo diesel bruisers for those that don’t need the turbo diesel.

And as Rusty mentioned, in our part of the country we're entering that three months a year called "winter" when diesels are a pain in the ass. The reformulated diesel fuel turns to Jell-O at a higher temperature than the old stuff and you have to spend extra money on fuel additive.

 

[stmitch]

In Europe you can get a lot of little cars with diesels. In Italy I saw a Focus diesel, a couple Chrysler minivan diesels, and a lot of Jeep diesels. Also a lot of little shitboxes which like the diesels, would never pass emissions in the U.S., and a lot of them I'd guess wouldn't pass crash standards. Saw a lot of older Fiat Pandas, which is essentially a Yugo. But over there gas and diesel is $8 a gallon so fuel mileage is more of a priority than emissions or crash protection.

A big reason why diesel is popular in Europe is that European regulators basically made that choice for the buying public. There are 2 basic categories of pollutants that come out of a tailpipe. Some are harmful to humans (smog forming) and others are harmful to the environment (Greenhouse gases). The US emissions standards focused on reducing smog forming emissions (particulates, and NOx mostly) which diesels struggle with. The Euro regulations emphasized a reduction in GHGs (CO2 mostly) which gasoline engines struggle with but diesels can achieve pretty easily. So you end up with diesel as a popular fuel in Europe and gasoline as a popular fuel in the US.

Europe eventually found out that the choice to focus on GHG reduction rather than smog reduction lead to really poor air quality in their densest cities, and as a result diesel is now falling out of favor there. Meanwhile, the US has cleaner air, but has been creating more harmful pollution for the environment. The US standards are now tightening on GHGs too, but the general choice was made to prioritize human health and safety over the environment. That's not impossible, but it does get more and more difficult, which is why a lot of companies are spending tens of billions of dollars on EVs. It's actually cheaper in the long run to spend that money now vs gradually over time on R&D/testing to meet increasingly tightening emissions standards, or potential fines if they don't meet the standards.

 

[19Walt93]

In Europe you can get a lot of little cars with diesels. In Italy I saw a Focus diesel, a couple Chrysler minivan diesels, and a lot of Jeep diesels. Also a lot of little shitboxes which like the diesels, would never pass emissions in the U.S., and a lot of them I'd guess wouldn't pass crash standards. Saw a lot of older Fiat Pandas, which is essentially a Yugo. But over there gas and diesel is $8 a gallon so fuel mileage is more of a priority than emissions or crash protection.

The Fiat isn't a Yugo, the Yugo was a Fiat design built by the Yugoslavian communists. You'd have to spend a lot of money on a Yugo to make it good enough to be called a shitbox without insulting the real shitboxes. VW deliberately built their "clean diesels" to cheat our emissions standards, their gas prices are entirely due to high taxes to fund Europe's more socialist ideas. When the government pays for something it uses money it took from the citizens who worked for it.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Here is a graph you might be familiar with that doesn't quite agree with your statement. The only place the 4.0 OHV makes more torque than the 4.0 SOHC is below 1600 rpm and it is only about 5 ft-lbs. I am guessing that could be equalized but it would probably sacrifice some of the top end power. Yes, OHC engines can spin to make more power but they don't need to unless the manufacturer designs them that way.

View attachment 52412

Did the pushrod 4.0 ever get a roller cam though? I kinda don't think they did. That does really help with valve control and was a gamechanger for pushrod engines that received them. Not saying it will totally close the gap but it would help.

And as Rusty mentioned, in our part of the country we're entering that three months a year called "winter" when diesels are a pain in the ass. The reformulated diesel fuel turns to Jell-O at a higher temperature than the old stuff and you have to spend extra money on fuel additive.

If your fuel supplier blends it correctly usually you can get along ok with just stuff for the pump. Watch the weather though, if your fuel is blended to say -20 and it gets anywhere close to that the only thing between you and major repairs is what you add to the fuel.

Old diesels you slap a magnetic heater on the fuel tank to get the Diesel 911 AND kero flowing, unhook the lines, blow out the jelly, change the filters, rebleed it and if you hold your tongue just right you can get it to run. Get it running and the engine warmed up the fuel gets warmed up in the lines and the return starts pumping warm fuel back into the tank and you are golden. Every cold snap at least one guy trying to feed cows gels up his tractor on the road. JD's with the nose fuel tank are the worst, the fan blowing air on the fuel line speeds things up (IH had the fuel tank mounted above the engine which helps for gelling but is a major PITA to do anything to the engine)

The newer tractors with plastic saddle tanks suck to degel, magnetic heater is a no go and you have two huge tanks that have fuel flowing freely between them to deal with.

With newer diesels in pickups it kills the injectors right off the bat and your results may vary from there. I only hear stories, we don't deal with them.

I push snow with a gas tractor. One little battery, no engine heater heater, no ether, it always starts and has yet to gel on me.

If I ever get a bigger tractor (wife wants cows... yippie) it will also be a gasser.

 

[Dirtman]

Obviously the answer is a multi fuel engine...

Yea they dont "technically" run on pure gasoline but they run on gas if you mix in some oil, jet fuel, kerosean, motor oil, cooking oil, diesel, mine even ran fine on a bunch of old transmission fluid.

The only thing they don't like is ethanol and race/aviation gas with methanol in it. Unlike me they simply hate alcohol of any kind but that's more to do with the rubber seals and lines than the actual operation of the engine. I bet with some modernization they would run fine on whiskey...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Obviously the answer is a multi fuel engine...

Yea they dont "technically" run on pure gasoline but they run on gas if you mix in some oil, jet fuel, kerosean, motor oil, cooking oil, diesel, mine even ran fine on a bunch of old transmission fluid.

The only thing they don't like is ethanol and race/aviation gas with methanol in it. Unlike me they simply hate alcohol of any kind but that's more to do with the rubber seals and lines than the actual operation of the engine.

View attachment 52463

My B John Deere is an all fuel. Warm it up on gas and you can switch it over to to just about anything flamable once it it is warmed up.

I just run gas 24/7 because it is cheaper/easier to find than anything else and I have no idea what is growing in the small gas starter fuel tank.

 

[Roert42]

Seems like a completely valid engine option.

I would heavily consider it.

 

[JohnnyO]

The Fiat isn't a Yugo, the Yugo was a Fiat design built by the Yugoslavian communists. You'd have to spend a lot of money on a Yugo to make it good enough to be called a shitbox without insulting the real shitboxes. VW deliberately built their "clean diesels" to cheat our emissions standards, their gas prices are entirely due to high taxes to fund Europe's more socialist ideas. When the government pays for something it uses money it took from the citizens who worked for it.

That's what I meant, but they never sold the Fiat Panda here so I was just using it for reference since most Americans won't know what a Panda is. My take is that they run a lot of diesels there simply because the fuel mileage is better and the fuel prices are so high.
Pic of a Jeep XJ diesel I took in Italy. As far as I know they never sold a diesel XJ here.

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[Dirtman]

Hey now, I've always wanted a yugo... i think it would make an awesome daily driver. That or an old Lada.