First time advice!? (Rebuild, Swap or Buy Remanufactured)

[MightyRuby91]

So for context, I have a 91' 3.0,5-MT with 265,000+ miles on it, and I would be working on an engine for the very first time. I already know what's wrong with it, head gasket; causing oil to outward rather than in the oil cavity. Being said I understand that most rebuilds are going to be very expensive, with that in mind I have a few ideas.
1. Rebuild the entire engine I currently have
Pros: Learning Opportunity and Experience
Cons: With the 3.0 out, I will likely start replacing everything on it just considering how many miles are on the car to ensure that I don't have to do this again in any time soon (Theoretically, if I don't muk it up the first time)
2. Swap
For the record, I like the V6's, my only real swap I'm currently interested in would be a 4.0. I understand the 5.0 fits, but the purpose of the truck is more or less Farm/Farm like duties it does not see much life outside the city to be fair. The V8 is probably too much for me in terms of the overall swap and what I feel comfortable dealing with and the current purpose for truck, but I'm not discounting it just yet.
3. Buy Remanufactured/Used
Websites like JEGS, and Summit offer this service, for my particular year as well as the later 3.0 from other years. Are any of these worth exploring?

Or I can go to my LKQ and try and find a 3.0 in decent shape.

I would appreciate any and all feedback

 

[WutUp Clegg]

I recently had to make the same decision with my F150. It mostly depends on your budget. Rebuilds are less expensive, but they can end up costing more than a remanufactured engine, and it takes forever to do. A swap isn't a bad idea, but the 3.0L is more reliable than the 4.0L.

For my F150, I went with a remanufactured engine. I had it professionally installed so I can get the warranty. It costs a lot more than a rebuild, but there are a lot less worries. My motor ended up having issues, so they are swapping out that motor at no cost to me.

 

[RobbieD]

Good post, and good questions.

I hope that you get a lot of feedback, and we're all going to have our own opinions.

If it were me in your shoes, I'd lean toward finding a good used 3.0. Preferably one which you can hear run and drive if possible to better the chance of getting a good engine. You will want to find a 3.0 as close to your year as possible. I am not familiar with the 3.0; I think that '91 may have been the first year for it, and after the '94 model OBD2 brought some changes, sensors mainly, to all of the Ranger engines. The 3.0 guys will have to weigh in on best years to use / years to avoid.

I would be working on an engine for the very first time.

A same-for-same engine swap is a great project for a beginner. The job is straightforward so it's a good way to learn "the art and mystery of the wrench"; and the experience you'll get will be extremely valuable. Great way to cut your teeth, so to say.


If all goes well, you end up with a running truck; some good wrenching experience; and a used motor to play with. Which you can take apart and learn even more, and perhaps you'll want to look into rebuilding it yourself, to put back in or just "for a rainy day".

If you are in a position to go that route (like in, place to do the work), and are able / willing to buy the needed tools (which, face it, are needed anyway), in my opinion it's a great way for an enthusiastic novice to get started on their journey to mechanical independence. May The Force Be With You.

Good luck!

 

[pjtoledo]

depends on how much time you have. both rebuilds and swaps can take some time, rebuilds being longer.

that said, the 3.0 is a simple engine and an easy rebuild.
the "special tools needed" is mostly stuff the machine shop can/will do.

getting the harmonic balancer and power steering pullies off can be done with rented tools.
that leaves a torque wrench and basic socket set to acquire.

 

[pentode]

For the record, there was a member on here yesterday who was offering a free 3.0 + trans. I think he's in California. Don't recall what year.

Free to a good Home...

3.0L V6 - 121k miles - new: starter, water pump, heads (reman), idler pulley/tensioner - new extras: fuel pump, ignition control module, distributor - missing: intake and exhaust manifolds, front-end accessories, wiring 5spd MT M50D-R1 + transfer case - flywheel and clutch (10k miles) -...

www.therangerstation.com

I agree with both @RobbieD and @pjtoledo - these are simple engines and I think doing a swap or head gaskets would be very doable and both great learning experiences if you have the time. Just have to be organized and methodical.

 

[superj]

having done this probably 20 times between bmws, jeeps, and other vehicles, i would find a good running engine and swap it in. its easy and you can be back on the road that evening if you start at a decent time.

i just did a swap on an 84 bmw 318i two or three weeks ago. we started the engine a little after lunch to confirm it ran since the car we pulled it from hadn't been started in 13 years. she fired up fine though.

prior to that, was an 86 bmw 325i with a motor from an 89 325i.

before that, a motor in my 98 sonoma, though this was a headgasket rebuild. took about a week because i had to wait for a replacement head to come in.

next: engine from a 99 or 2k grand cherokee into a 98 cherokee.

prior to that, about 10 bmws got motors swapped from other bmws. some went from 4 cylinders to 6 cylinders.

a number of bmw headgasket repairs too. only one or two required replacement heads though.

4 or 5 air cooled vw motor swaps but those are easy one man jobs that can pulled and swapped in about an hour so they probably shouldn;t be counted

 

[Broosedamoose]

You got a lot of good replies here. It all comes down to what you are comfortable with and how fast you need this done. Being that it's just a farm use truck, I would just pull the heads, send them out to a machine shop for rebuilding, new head gaskets, put it back together and run it. The bottom end should be fine for what you need it for and 265K miles isn't that bad for a bottom end IMO.

 

[MightyRuby91]

Thanks to everyone who replied, after some thought I am going to rebuild the engine, that being said is there anything I can do when rebuilding that I can improve upon? I'm thinking less about HP and more on quality of life, making a robust engine even more so. All links to any past threads would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You all very much

 

[MaicoDoug]

When looking for a replacement motor, it would be good to witness the oil pressure. Also understand the difference between the top & the bottom end. The bottom end (crankshaft, bearings) requires a whole different skill set & money. The top end, (heads and manifolds- bolt on upgrades) typically will need attention at the repair / machine shop which is to be expected and you can do that part. It's relatively cheap. A simple compression check will tell that if you care to do it at all.

Most often us mechanics will opt for only doing a head job to get past a sorry engine. When the heads come off the first thing to do is the finger test to feel for a lip at the top of any given cylinder looking for bore wear. However.....when the oil pressure tests low, and some oil consumption (burning & internal leaking) becomes a pain with constantly having to top it off, it may be indeed time for a "lower - bottom end rebuild", which is the expensive part. Bottom end rebuilds are where the boys are split from the men. Not that it's impossible, I'm sure there are plenty of videos on how to learn. But I would leave any lower end issues to the pros and get to know what exactly what I'm dealing with and what I should look out for. Sometimes in these circumstances it's good to know what you don't know if you get my drift. Knowing about how much oil the potential donor engine uses and how the oil pressure looks (with the correct weight oil) will best classify how far the engine is through it's life. And...anyone can pull the cylinder heads, have them checked and surfaced if required and new parts installed including valves, guides, etc. Often a poorly rebuilt engine is not welcome as compared to an unmolested candidate block waiting for a good quality rebuild. Sometimes all they need are a new set of heads IF the previous owner kept the oil clean. Don't forget about the 4.0 timing chain guides.

If I were you, I would invest in a fully rebuilt engine with a fresh bore, new bearings & pistons, w/ rebuilt or new heads. This would leave you working on only the swap itself and get the truck back on it's wheels. Now the old engine can be used as a "core" to be sent back in exchange for your new block. Using this opportunity to learn is honorable no doubt, but in actuality this is where most of the time, the situation changes due to not enough momentum and know how and unfortunately the job gets handed off to a flipper who makes his $$ on situations like this. Do it right the first time is all I'm trying to say. Experiment and learn in due time & know the difference if you can. Good luck & I hope I did not confuse you.

 

[superj]

yeah. get a drop in engine and then build yours in the garage in your spare time. every time i have gotten to the point where i ended up selling something, i was trying to work through the mire of something that was over my head and i had not done before, or very little of.

like putting a v8 into my wrangler. took two years because of funds and learning stuff on my own. finally got it done and drivable and immediately sold it because was sick of it. and that is the primary driver of why i will never do a 302 swap into a ranger. one bad experience

 

[19Walt93]

The problem with buying a used engine is that you have no idea if it's been maintained and you'd be looking for an engine at least 13 years old. I've seen oil filters rust through because they hadn't been changed in years.
Some reman engines aren't done well and some rebuilders make you jump through hoops before they'll agree to pay for repairs or exchange the defect.
If you rebuild it, send the parts to a machine shop and have them evaluate what you need. It's better to spend money for labor than it is too waste money throwing parts that may not get good results.
If you decide to just do the heads, pull the engine out and replace both the front and rear seals. You'll already have the externals stripped off and it won't add much to the job.
Good luck with your project.

 

[MightyRuby91]

I were you, I would invest in a fully rebuilt engine with a fresh bore, new bearings & pistons, w/ rebuilt or new heads.

Any suggestions as to where I should inquire from?

 

[rusty ol ranger]

No ones mentioned this but....

Are you SURE its head gaskets and not just the valve cover gaskets?

If its valve covers its a 20 dollar job that might take an hour.

I bring this up because VC gaskets leak on the outside on the top of the head, drip down and make everything a mess

 

[MaicoDoug]

MR91, you're getting some good responses here. Where to inquire, someplace that is close to you. Since it's a big chunk of metal your talking about. Sending your current engine to the machine shop for evaluation would be the initial step. Pull it, send it, and wait to hear back.

What machine shop? I know some of the preferred shops around here. Where are you located? I would stick whit someone local, maybe a hundred miles or so, but there is someone out there and close to you that has the respect and plenty that don't. You can check in to reliable resources such as the Better Business Bureau and investigate their resolved complaints. Stay away from any public school auto classes asking for your "donation". Talk to the local hot rod clubs. Find out who is doing this sort of thing locally. I normally inquire IF they bore any old Mopar V8 blocks. These are high nickel blocks (Inconel) which only the best shops will touch and most refuse. So that should get you in the ballpark. They should have equipment manufactured by a company called "Sunnen". Find out who uses this sort of equipment and works on the V8 Mopar Inconel blocks and ask for the "old man" to give you a tour. I believe you will learn alot & enjoy the time there.

Good question that Rusty asks, what are the symptoms besides having 265kmi miles on it? So we need to realize things like what sort of oil service has this thing had in it's past, and what does it run like now? Does anyone know if this truck has an oil pressure gauge? MR91, I think you are suffering from too much keyboard time and not enough time under the hood time! Like us all I hate to say. When you say "head gasket" do you mean valve cover gasket? Wipe it clean and monitor is the way all mechanics watch leaks, you need to follow such advice and report back. Posting a video is a great way to introduce anyone to your truck. You may indeed have a decent core to start with, and possibly only need to address the oil leak which is a popular issue with the 2.8-3.0 engine. This would be the next step I would recommend. The absolute basic first step is getting good at discovering where the oil leak is coming from, and even the best long toothed mechanics still scratch their heads searching for that spot, but plainly it's the very first step in entering into the world of "motorisity"as Don Rickles one said playing "Big Drag" in a movie. Get a rag soaked with wd40 and start wiping. Then watch.

My 2.8 warped the heads when the radiator went south. It was really bad trying to start the thing missing like crazy. Wish I had her back that old '83 speedster.

 

[pjtoledo]

Rusty brings up a good point about valve cover gaskets.

the oil draining from the heads back down the crankcase is not under pressure. it drips/runs down a 1/2" hole at each end of the head.
so it's under no hurry to leak out the side.
the valve cover gaskets can/will leak the full length of the head.

have you done a compression test yet?
that and oil consumption are major determining factors in regards to needing a rebuild.