E-85 Gasoline

[85_Ranger4x4]

Thats where my lack of maintenance comment comes in. People don't care until it breaks, then they yell and scream.

Changing gas every time they want to run it is not usually routine maintenance. If you drain it every time some parts of the fuel system dry out so that isn't really a viable option either.

If the tightwads would just run premium... it costs so much more for a one or two gallon jug.

 

[doorgunner]

Gallon for gallon burning ethanol is much more emissions friendly than straight gas. The problem is that it produces a lot of carbon pollution in the process to make it and you have to burn twice as much of it to make the same energy. The production and increased usage per mile kill the carbon savings from using it as a fuel, but the greenies wont' tell you that part, gotta stop using petroleum, it's bad for the environment, ethanol is natural.
Dumbasses.

What you said was on cable news today...it takes as much enrgy to produce ethanol as it puts out, plus, worse mpg for the same price...

can i put this in the "....My Guvment...." thread....huh, huh, huh!?

 

[3.0ranger1227]

I always wondered how it would compare if you built an engine specifically for ethonal rather than a "flex-fuel" that is hobbled by having to be mainly built for regular gas and yet also run on ethonal.

Mainly up the compression.

Guy in town here runs his 700hp Evo on ethanol race fuel only, and a guy on DR built his 650hp cobra for ethanol exclusively. It's cheaper than race gasoline but has similar properties. Of course they get ethanol from VP in 55 gal drums but it can be done.


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[kryptonitecb]

Guy in town here runs his 700hp Evo on ethanol race fuel only, and a guy on DR built his 650hp cobra for ethanol exclusively. It's cheaper than race gasoline but has similar properties. Of course they get ethanol from VP in 55 gal drums but it can be done.


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He also most likely has his engine tuned for the higher octane rating.

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Guy in town here runs his 700hp Evo on ethanol race fuel only, and a guy on DR built his 650hp cobra for ethanol exclusively. It's cheaper than race gasoline but has similar properties. Of course they get ethanol from VP in 55 gal drums but it can be done.


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I meant NA, comparable to a regular production engine but with compression enough to utilize the octane.

 

[3.0ranger1227]

He also most likely has his engine tuned for the higher octane rating.

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic

Of course.


Also there were a few FSAE cars at the West competition last year running race ethanol instead of race gasoline. Most were running NA and didn't have problems that I knew of. We were running race gasoline. And those engines get pushed pretty hard - we had a 575cc 1 cylinder pulling 70rwhp through a 20mm restrictor.


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[AllanD]

What you said was on cable news today...it takes as much enrgy to produce ethanol as it puts out, plus, worse mpg for the same price...

can i put this in the "....My Guvment...." thread....huh, huh, huh!?

This is true, meaning ALL the energy expended producing ethanol is WASTED energy.

Why is this...

Look at the process for making ethanol from corn, first the corn must be ground
then boiled, actually pressure cooked to break down the cell walls and gelatinize the starches, then at a very narrow heat range above 100degF the enzymes that convert starch to sugar must be added, then as the temperature drops below 90F the yeast is added top convert ssugar to ethanol.

after several days of fermentation the excess (90-95%) water must be boiled to release the ethanol, this takes atleast two passes to yield ethanol that is sufficiently water free to do the last step, you see ethanol forms an azeotrope (an actual chemical bond) with water that absolutely prevent it's being seperated by simple distillation process.

By comparison alcohol produced from sugar cane is actually several times more efficient that making sugar from sugar cane,
Because in the process of producing sugar the cane juice must be boild, cooled and crystalized diluted with water and boiled again... producing pure sugar is actually more energy intensive than making ethanol from corn.

But making ethanol from cane juice takes a small fraction of the energy
of making sugar.

Because sugar cane once pressed, and steamed to extract the majority of the sugar can be fermented directly by yeast, no conversion of starch...
No working around the large proportion of dissolved and suspended solids.

The only reason ethanol is being produced in large quantities from corn is because of enormous government subsidies, take away those subsidies and those plants will be shut down faster that the NY commodities exchange on 9-11
(The commodities exchange was IN the world trade center)

On the other hand if someone were producing "cellulosic ethanol" using cellulose as a feed stock instead of starch I'd be all for it, because then the STALKS of the corn, grass clippings, raked leaves, wood chips, and most of our household garbage could be used to produce ethanol fuel.

And THAT would have other benefits... like dramatically reducing the ammount of stuff that must br crammed into landfills... or dumped at sea...

Basically it would be a low tech version of Doc Brown shoving Banana peels
into his "Mr Fusion Home Energy unit"


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[gw33gp]

The only reason ethanol is being produced in large quantities from corn is because of enormous government subsidies, take away those subsidies and those plants will be shut down faster that the NY commodities exchange on 9-11
(The commodities exchange was IN the world trade center)


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I thought the government subsidies on corn alcohol were already taken away and if not are going to be very soon.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I thought the government subsidies on corn alcohol were already taken away and if not are going to be very soon.

Nope, they are talking about cutting back on various farm programs that are relics of back when corn was cheaper than dirt though.

At one time they were working making gas/diesel from algea, that sounded pretty neat too.

 

[daniel3507]

They won't ever do away with corn subsidies. they completely went overboard with.them though. The reason there is corn in everything we eat is because they had to invent new things to do with corn since there was so much of it cause of subsidies. That's why cattle are fed corn now even though its not a natural diet for them.

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[cody93]

i feel lucky having a pure gas station next to my house that reminds, me, gota take the gas out of the 2.0 and fill up the 2.3 and then fill the 2.0 with pure gas as it wont be driven much untill i get other jobs done first...

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

They won't ever do away with corn subsidies. they completely went overboard with.them though. The reason there is corn in everything we eat is because they had to invent new things to do with corn since there was so much of it cause of subsidies. That's why cattle are fed corn now even though its not a natural diet for them.

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They have been fed corn for decades if not centuries, it has been raised in the Americals for thousands of years. It has been the primary crop around here darn near forever.

Actually "distillers grain", the leftovers from ethonal are also commonly fed to cattle as well. I don't know if the anti-ethonal people figure that into their calculations or not and if so how it compares to having corn to start with for feed... just about everybody that walks in the shop with livestock feeds it though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distillers_grains

The closest thing the domestic cow has to a natural diet is grass which makes for a skinny tough meated critter with no marbling that takes forever to make weight. Quicker turnaround on cornfed beef and it is better tasting to boot, that is why very few people feed out their herds on pasture alone.

 

[daniel3507]

I gotta disagree with cornfed beef tasting better. Grassfed beef is some of the best beef I have had. It does take longer for the cow to gain weight but the end result is well worth it in my opinion. That is also why most people feed corn and grain though. They get fatter quicker which means their wallet also gets fatter quicker. Corn was never a natural diet for a cow though even though its been grown for centuries.

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[6.2]

I gotta disagree with cornfed beef tasting better. Grassfed beef is some of the best beef I have had. It does take longer for the cow to gain weight but the end result is well worth it in my opinion. That is also why most people feed corn and grain though. They get fatter quicker which means their wallet also gets fatter quicker. Corn was never a natural diet for a cow though even though its been grown for centuries.

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Agreed.

 

[AllanD]

Cornfed beef is tender, but flavorless

and I'm not "Against" ethanol, what I'm against is stupid people,
many of them in government, who like to deny the laws of chemistry,
thermodynamics and economics, in order to justify "feel good" programs
that are not solutions, but please the greenie's dilusions