Can I install gears without the tools?

[Hardwareman]

Ok, well I have the basic understanding of how to set up gears. I think I'm going to have to wait though because I have no shims at this point. I'll go ahead and order that kit from www.ringpinion.com for $20 bucks.

From what I understand I can install the pinion without the crush sleeve (and seal) at first in order to set up the proper depth. as long as the inch pounds are correct. Then it's a matter of getting an acceptable pattern with the marking compund on both the drive and coast side. I've seen tons of illustrations online so I'm not as scared as I originally was. I'm just worried about taking it apart and then having the old 4.56 gearset not be able to be set up properly because I don't have any shims.

I mean I could try to just reinstall the old gearset exactly the way it's installed in my old diff but everyone here's telling me that it won't be properly set up even though it's the same (7.5) housing. Let's say the backlash is off, which is probably more possible then the pinion depth being wrong. I don't have ANY shims to correct it so it seems like I need shims to do this job right. Right?

If you guys think I can get away with doing it as a swap with just a new crush sleeve and pinion nut then let me know and I'll do it today. I'll still go out and buy a dial indicator and marking compund to check it out but you guys are the ones with the experience........not me........haha




Allen

 

[CopyKat]

Don't do the swap untill you have the install kit. Swap your 4.56's into the new housing as is with all the shims from the old axle. In the same spot. Check the pattern when it's all torqued down. Should you get lucky and not have to shim your set to go, if not you'll have the shims handy.

 

[Hardwareman]

Gotcha!

Thanks. I just don't want to pull everything apart only to not have it set up properly and not have the shims to fix it you know?

Then I"ll have to reinstall the gears I removed. That would suck!

I'm going to be using the bearings/races from my 4.56 gearset. They're already removed. Is that ok?




Allen

 

[MAKG]

Yes, you can install the pinion with no crush sleeve in order to check depth. It's standard practice. Those who do it all the time even have special widened pinion bearings so they don't have to run back and forth to the press.

If you are reusing the gearset in the same housing, but with a different carrier, I'd leave the rear pinion bearing (on the 4.56) completely alone unless it's fried, complete with the shim. Under that circumstance, there is no way to change the pinion depth. However, the backlash can be different as the carrier's ring gear flange doesn't have to be exactly the same distance from each carrier bearing. This is quite likely to be different.

But I thought you had a different 7.5 housing. Pinion depth can be (potentially very) different there because of machining tolerances on the housing.

You can get the pinion bearing off with a bearing splitter and BIG jawed puller, but I'd very much prefer a press. You can get it on with a metal pipe pounding on the INNER race of the bearing (so rollers never get pounded on directly), with the pinion resting on something fairly soft like aluminum or even wood. The pinion will chip if you whang it with something hard. Or perhaps you can redneck some kind of bolt puller to pull it on, or figure out how to rig a splitter and puller to go the other way.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with reusing a good bearing.

 

[CopyKat]

Gotcha!


I'm going to be using the bearings/races from my 4.56 gearset. They're already removed. Is that ok?


Allen

Yes as long as the bearing races are still matched with the same side bearings.

 

[86freebie]

one last thing, when you do install the crush sleeve and you are tightening the main nut, when you start getting close. TAKE YOUR TIME if you go past you cant "undo" the nut a little bit. if the rear end is in the truck get a good stern bar that is long enough to wedge on the ground when it is bolted to the u-bolt flange. and litteraly 1/16 of a turn is a couple inch pounds.

 

[MAKG]

if the rear end is in the truck get a good stern bar that is long enough to wedge on the ground when it is bolted to the u-bolt flange.

This ought to work, but a cheaper, easier, and just-as-effective solution is to thread an M12x1.75 bolt through the flange, so that it hits the housing. A nut on the end will protect the threads so you don't mash them against the housing. A bolt that size will withstand the forces just fine.

That's like 50 cents of hardware. I did it recently on my 8.8.

You will need at least 3-4 feet of leverage to crush the washer. I did it with my 250 ft-lb torque wrench (I was curious just how much it took), and it got to 210 ft-lbs before it was tight enough. That took much more effort from me than it should have, had I used enough leverage.

 

[swamprat]

Dosent Randys have a video or somthing? When I put my 4.56 in my axles a video was sent with the gear set. The dog as long since destroyed it. You are on the right track and all the advice is good. You wil get it done. I bought extra crush collars from advance when I did mine and I took an extra bearing and a cylinder hone and widen a abearing to check pinion depth. Once you get it done dont brag to you buddys that you can install gears. They will all be lined up wanting theirs done.

 

[Hardwareman]

Man, this is all great advice and knowledge guys. Thanks!

SO, when my kit gets here and I install the gears in order to crush the crush sleeve I need to apply a lot of force to crush it?

Don't I need to be careful and check it often to make sure I don't surpass the recommended inch pounds?

And Mike, I'm using the ring and pinion with the carrier from the old housing and installing it into the new housing. Are you saying I can use the rear pinion bearing/race that's installed in the new housing with the old (4.56) gear set/carrier?

I've completely taken everything out of the old housing already (bearings, races, seals, everything) and have it it order the way it came out. That's going to be my starting point in the new housing.



Allen

 

[CopyKat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8APYO2sZyJU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lel4guputbg&feature=related

 

[rickcdewitt]

I can use the rear pinion bearing/race that's installed in the new housing with the old (4.56) gear set/carrier?

no,the rear bearing is pressed on the pinion so use it and its race.


I've completely taken everything out of the old housing already (bearings, races, seals, everything) and have it in order the way it came out. That's going to be my starting point in the new housing.
Allen

theres a good chance that will work fine,what you are looking for is the SAME contact pattern as before.

but boning up on a cpu and doing it without the tools is a good way to screw it up.your first test drive could be the last.

you really want someone there to help(who has tools you can borrow)

 

[MAKG]

SO, when my kit gets here and I install the gears in order to crush the crush sleeve I need to apply a lot of force to crush it?

Don't I need to be careful and check it often to make sure I don't surpass the recommended inch pounds?

Yes, but it's not going to happen before you run into a LARGE increase in force. And you'll notice that once you do start crushing the sleeve, there will be a bit of space to take up -- the pinion will be floppy for a bit. You won't reach any preload at all (beyond the seal) until you take out all of the floppiness. Then, it will go up pretty fast.

And Mike, I'm using the ring and pinion with the carrier from the old housing and installing it into the new housing. Are you saying I can use the rear pinion bearing/race that's installed in the new housing with the old (4.56) gear set/carrier?

There is nothing wrong with reusing a good bearing. Or reusing the pinion race alone with a new bearing (as long as the race isn't trashed). But you may need to change the shim, which requires pulling that bearing off the pinion.

 

[Evan]

I recommend picking up a new bearing. Here's why:

If you use the old bearing, you will have to press on and remove the bearing from the pinion gear with a bearing splitter over and over as you get the pinion depth right. You could easily end up doing this ten times.

So, pick up a new bearing. Then take the old bearing and use a dremel or air grinder to lightly grind out the inside of the old bearing until it just fits over the pinion shaft. You now have a "setup" bearing, that you can easily slide on and off the gear as you experiment with different shims for pinion depth. Keep this setup bearing around...you can use it on future 8.8 setups.

You don't need to bother changing out the race in the housing, provided it is in good shape.

 

[rickcdewitt]

I recommend picking up a new bearing. Here's why:

If you use the old bearing, you will have to press on and remove the bearing from the pinion gear with a bearing splitter over and over as you get the pinion depth right. You could easily end up doing this ten times.

So, pick up a new bearing. Then take the old bearing and use a dremel or air grinder to lightly grind out the inside of the old bearing until it just fits over the pinion shaft. You now have a "setup" bearing, that you can easily slide on and off the gear as you experiment with different shims for pinion depth. Keep this setup bearing around...you can use it on future 8.8 setups.

You don't need to bother changing out the race in the housing, provided it is in good shape.

i did that too,another trick is too put shims behing that race if you need to make the pinion deeper once the bearing is pressed on the pinion

 

[bottledgt]

changing the bearing is much simpler...